Another war in Gaza

In terms of what Israel is doing/has done to promote peace, I’ve mentioned earlier that the settlements need to stop but I believe that is partly due to the parliamentary system where by the religeous nutjobs are needed to make up the numbers for any coalition government. Basically they have to much sway and too little valuable contribution to the State.

Also, Hamas run Gaza but they are not the only military group operating from there. Hence Hamas may observe the ceasefire but as seen by the rockets that were launched after the deadline, there are other parties who may not respect the ceasefire that Hamas may not entirely control. The point it, regarding negotiating a Peace treaty it’s not just Hamas that you have to contend with – that is if Hamas were ever to recognise Israel and want to negotiate.

Every Israeli PM since Rabin has engaged the Palestinians regarding peace deals & a two state solution. Even Netanyahu has called on Abbas to return to the negotiating table without any pre-conditions. Returning to the 1948 borders isn’t realistic – the Arabs at the time rejected this and preferred to declare war which they somehow lost – although a model based on the 1967 borders is viable with some give and take on both sides.

In 2005, Israel left Gaza including physically dragging Israeli citizens away so that the territory could be handed over. That was a massive move for Israel, it divided opinion but was done for ‘the greater good’ – although it hasn’t quite panned out that way.

The blockade as far as I know only came to pass in 2008 after the Hamas cross border raid that kidnapped Shalit and killed one of his colleagues. Hizbollah staged a simultaneous attack and killed 3 soldiers I believe, keeping the bodies of two and not revealing whether they were dead or alive until the caskets were returned as part of a huge prisoner exchange years later. A point on the blockade, as far as I know it is only a naval blockade but goods flow into Gaza from the Kerem crossing on a very frequent basis so you can pretty much get any good/product in Gaza as long as it is construed not to be for military use. Bear in mind that it wasn’t so long ago that an Iranian ship under another nation’s flag destined for Gaza revealed a sizeable weapons haul:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-15/israeli-navy-boards-ship-finds-iranian-arms-headed-for-gaza.html

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/idf-seizes-boat-carrying-weapons-from-turkey-to-gaza-1.349335

The border crossings would exist in any country where there isn’t free movement of people, especially when there are security concerns. The unfortunate part of any such situation is it’s the average person who gets screwed in the process, not the decision makers further up the hierarchy.

In terms of how the IDF conducts itself, it’s not the perfect army but whose is?
Nevertheless this is very interesting viewing:

JY & DD?

^^^^^^Do you mean what we post or our love that dare not speak its name?

Every Israeli PM since Rabin has engaged the Palestinians regarding peace deals & a two state solution. Even Netanyahu has called on Abbas to return to the negotiating table without any pre-conditions.

Bit like me punching you in the face whilst stealling your tv whilst my mates plow in and I ask you to talk but refuse to leave or stop stealing – ok I overplay it but you get the point.

You wont get talks without pre condition
IIRC the stumbling block is still building on occupied land

Returning to the 1948 borders isn’t realistic – the Arabs at the time rejected this and preferred to declare war which they somehow lost – although a model based on the 1967 borders is viable with some give and take on both sides.

What do you mean by some give and take on both sides? the Israelis dont give back all the land they have stolen so what exactly will they be giving up that they are legally entitled to?
That is the thing the Israeli policy has been to make peace on the ground so it is impossible to get them to agree to what was actually agreed [ internationally if not personally by them] re borders.
If i was Israel i would be willing to give up all the land in order to get recognition of the right to exist from the “enemy” and a lasting peace. I dont think they will offer this though and the best we will get s some sort of Northern Irealnd Troubles for a century or so saddly.

Iranian ship under another nation’s flag destined for Gaza revealed a sizeable weapons haul:

Its not like Israel is getting in weapons from the west [ but that is ok I assume] or made secret shipments of say weapons parts from the west to say make a nuclear weapon. Imagine if an arab state did that – do we treat Iraq like we have Israel – we are all hypocrites in that we would arm those we support and not arm those we oppose. The amrs trade is not a good thing nor is arming wither side.

In terms of how the IDF conducts itself, it’s not the perfect army but whose is?
Nevertheless this is very interesting viewing:

It may well be but it has F all to do with the how the IDF conducts itself was it too difficult to find something on the Internet about them or their conduct?
I doubt you will find a modern western army with similar levels of “not perfect but whose is”.
Why this approach of the lets defend Israel by ignoring the question and criticising the other sides – lets be clear both sides have committed atrocities lets just say this openly rather than answer a question on the IDF by saying Hamas is good at spin which has no bearing on what you are meant to be answering.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Miller_(filmmaker)

James M was a kind of friend, this is what the IDF are capable of.

This is what changed my mind about Israel, having lived there for a year I was very pro but what they are doing is not good.

Junkyard – I think the main stumbling blocks in the past have been the right of return and more importantly for the Palestinians is East Jerusalem as their capital as well as the borders. In terms of returning of land, Israel has done so with Egypt by returning the entire Sinai Peninsula in appx 1980 captured in 67 in return for Peace with Egypt. As mentioned I cannot see 1948 borders as realistic in terms of what an eventual peace process would look like but those of 1967 borders may well be.

Regarding the peace talks, it has to start somewhere and my point was in trying to answer the question as to what Israel has tried re steps towards peace and over the last near on twenty years (iirc it was about that long ago that Arafat/Rabin were on the lawn of the White House and went on to receive the Nobel Peace Prize) there have been attemtps to stick to the 2 state solution regardless of who the partner is i.e. Arafat, Abbas etc.

Yes I could definitely find negative web articles about the IDF and they probabaly wouldn’t be too hard to find. The reason I posted that youtube link was that it was of a British military officer i.e. independent, openly praising the conduct of the IDF during Op Cast Lead.

Although I believe the Jews should have a homeland (and not in Madagascar as proposed by Adolf Eichman) I am not blind to some of Israel’s actions. I seldom post on STW but felt I needed to in this case as it’s my view that Israel is all too often negatively and disproportionately covered in the media. The example given elsewhere in this chat was Syria were appx 40,000 people have lost their lives but now barely makes any headlines despite the conflict being nowhere near ending. If you care to look through my posts on this thread, all I’ve tried to do here is highlight the other side of the coin that I feel is seldom conveyed in anywhere near the way the negative press is.

I remember this ^ being reported on the news and i followed the story and subsequent lies and cover ups, pretty much as close to as a description for cold bloodied murder as you are likely to find. From my first hand experience of “nationalised” Israelis in Goa where most of them go to “relax” after doing their national service i have to say they were on the whole the most ignorant, self assured and sneeringly righteous up their own arse folk i have ever had the misfortune to meet. Their treatment of the local indians was despicable, from taunts about their religious beliefs to jokes and comments about their women and in one bar/restaurant in Anjuna, specifically the baskin robbins ice cream place on the corner, i watched as a crowd of 20+ completely trashed the place because one of their crowd was asked to refrain from smoking a giant chillum and tapping the bowl out on the table – they completely took the place apart and up ended all the fridges and freezers. I had a bit of trouble with them over what a few of them attempted to do to my GF when she was walking back to our accommodation (the white negro) from the beach bar San-Fransisco and if it wasn’t for all the locals standing up for us en-mass with cleavers, bush cutters etc forcing them to back off i dread to think what may have happened, they think they rule the place out there, just as they feel they have the right to rule over the Palestinians.

We did meet a few really nice Israelis though, some i am still in touch with 8 yrs later, there was a small farm/collective community down in South Goa near to Palolem beach – very friendly and welcoming – totally free to stay/eat/sleep as long as you helped out on their tiny farm or helped repair structures etc and any extra goods or produce/manpower they had was distributed free to the local school where the Israelis often taught the kids and played sports with them – in total contrast to the others up north in Anjuna, they were all hiding out on the farm as they jumped the country to avoid national service and they had the same opinion of their fellow countrymen, they called them DIB’s , meaning Dumb Israeli B…….ds , amongst some other terms that i fear could not be mentioned ever.

Below, an extract from an article in The Spectator publication is inline with some of the more objective historical (& current) narratives above, and underlines the point, that no action on Israel’s part on its own will achieve peace. There needs to be a will on the side of the Islamists to formally accept Israel, which has not been, and does not look likely to be forthcoming. That is where international pressure should be applied.

Here is a link to the whole article:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/8767481/israel-under-siege/

Unlike its neighbours, Israel is not spoilt for options. The country occupies a tiny piece of land — far less than was promised to it a century ago. Since the moment of its creation in 1948, all of its neighbours have repeatedly tried to invade and eradicate it. Since the failure of the last attempt in 1973, they have realised that they cannot destroy the country by conventional military force. Some, notably Egypt, subsequently sought and gained peace agreements.

But led by the Islamists in Iran and their proxies, over recent years Israel’s enemies have chosen the tactic of terrorism rather than invasion to achieve their ends. On occasion, as in Lebanon in 1982, Israel has responded by strategically occupying land to prevent such attacks. Each time it has given up such land — as in Gaza in 2005 — its withdrawal has been met with terror, not peace. Over recent years more than 12,000 rockets have been fired on Israel from Gaza.

In the background of all this is an Iranian regime which has as its repeatedly stated aim the eradication of the world’s only Jewish state. Among those stories lost during last week’s fighting is the IAEA’s discovery of a massive increase in centrifuge building at Iran’s nuclear facilities.

So you think pressure needs to be applied to “Islamists” alone? But somehow, the peaceful Zionists need no pressure at all? Again, your type refuse to accept any part in this mess. Just that pressure needs to be applied to “Islamists” . Jeez. There I was thinking expansionism and disproportionality might have something to do with things… Thanks for clearing that up.

I sense a wall building between us samj.

Last couple of weeks

http://palestinefrommyeyes.wordpress.com/2012/11/17/gazaunderattack-names-and-ages-of-killed-people-who-fell-victim-during-the-past-ongoing-israeli-attacks-on-gaza/

Names and ages of killed people in the ongoing Israeli attacks on Gaza

Because we are NOT just numbers, keep following this post of the names and ages of murdered people who fell victim during the past days of Israeli attacks on Gaza since Wednesday. The number rises to 170 and still rising 🙁 I hope that this battle will cost us no more souls. However, nothing will depress us, no matter how much Israel escalates its inhumanity and crimes. We’ll remain ready to pay any price for attaining of freedom and dignity. Every drop of your blood has just made our Palestinian soil smell more beautiful and precious and raised our determination to keep fighting for your justice and the just cause you paid your lives for. RIP.

1- Ahmad Al-Ja’bary, 52 years old.
2-Mohammed Al-hams, 28 years old.
3- Rinan Arafat, 7 years old.
4- Omar Al-Mashharawi, 11 moonths old.
5-Essam Abu-Alma’za, 20 years old.
6-Mohammed Al-qaseer, 20 years old.
7- Heba Al-Mashharawi, six-month pregnant, 19 years old.
8- Mahmoud Abu Sawawin, 65 years old.

9- Habis Hassan Mismih, 29 years old.
10- Wael Haidar Al-Ghalban, 31 years old.
11- Hehsam Mohammed Al-Ghalban, 31 years old.
12- Rani Hammad, 29 years old.
13- Khaled Abi Nasser, 27 year old.
14- Marwan Abu Al-Qumsan, 52 years old.
15- Walid Al-Abalda, 2 years old.
16- Hanin Tafesh, 10 months old.
17- Oday Jammal Nasser, 16 years old.
18- Fares Al-Basyouni, 11 years old.
19- Mohammed Sa’d Allah, 4 years old.
20- Ayman Abu Warda, 22 years old.
21- Tahrir Suliman, 20 years old.
22- Ismael Qandil, 24 years old.
23- younis Kamal Tafesh, 55 years old.
24- Mohammed Talal Suliman, 28 years old.
25- Amjad Mohammed Abu-Jalal, 32 years old.
26- Ziyad Farhan Abu-Jalal, 23 years old.
27- Ayman Mohammed Abu Jalal, 44 years old.
28- Hassan Salem Al-Heemla’, 27 years old.
29- Khaled Khalil Al-Shaer, 24 years old.
30- Ayman Rafeeq sleem, 26 years old.
31- Ahmad Abu Musamih, 32 years old.

At 8:20 am, as a result to an Israeli inhumane attack on Deel Al-Balah, central Gaza, three people were killed. The list of murdered victims goes longer>>>

32- Osama Musa Abdeljawad, 27 years old.
33- Ashraf Hassan Darwish, 22 years old.
34- Ali Abdul HakimAl-Mana’ma, 20 years old

At 8:45 am_ 9:00 am, warplanes attacked several places including Rafah, Khan-Younis, and Tal Al-Sultan, southern Gaza, leaving three killed>>

35`- Mukhlis Edwan, 30 years old.
36- Mohammed Al-Loulhy, 24 years old.
37- Ahmad Al-Atrush, 22 years old.

In a series of attacks on several places on central Gaza at noon, two more people fell victim:

38- Abderrahman Al-Masri, 31 years old.

39- Awad Hamdi Al-Nahhal, 23 years old.
40- Ali Hassan Iseed, 25 years old, killed in an attack on his motorbike in Deer Al-Balah, central Gaza, at 8:10 pm, Novebmer 17.

IOF attack another motorbike in Deer Al-Balah at 8:20 pm, leaving two more killed:
41- Mohammed Sabry Al’weedat, 25 years old.
42- Osama Yousif Al-Qadi, 26 years old.

In an attack on central Gaza, to the west of Al-Masdar area, at 9:10 pm, two more people people killed:
43- Ahmad Ben Saeed, 42 years old.
44- Hani Bre’m, 31 years old.

At 9:40 pm, Israel attacked Qdeih family’s house in west Khan-Younis, Southern Gaza and a woman got killed.
45- Samaher Qdeih, 28 years old.
46- Tamer Al-Hamry, 26 years old, died after being seriously injured in an attack on Deer Al-Balah.

On November 18, the fifth day of the Israeli ongoing aggression on Gaza:

Israeli warplanes shelled the house of Abu-Alfoul family in northern Gaza, killing two children and injuring at 13 at least, mostly children and women.

47- Gumana Salamah Abu Sufyan, 1 year old.

48- Tamer Salamah Abu Sufyan, 3 years old.

An Israeli warplanes fired missiles at a house that belongs to the family of Abu Nuqira in Rafah killing one person:

49- Muhamed Abu Nuqira

An Israeli war plane fired a missile at a house in an agricultural land east of Bureij camp, in the Central Gaza Strip, killing one child and injuring 2 other children:

50- Eyad Abu Khusa, 18 months old.

Two people were killed, one of them a child, when an Israeli missile hit a beachfront refugee camp in Gaza City:

51- Tasneem Zuheir Al-Nahhal, 13 years old.

52- Ahmad Essam Al-Nahhal, 25 years old.

Medics also reported finding the body of woman under the rubble of a house in eastern Gaza City who had been killed in a strike earlier in the morning.

53- Nawal Abdelaal, 52 years old.

At 3:10 pm, November 18, Israel rocked a house belongs to Al-Dalou family in Sheikh-Redwan area, west Gaza, killing at least 10 people, including 4 women and 4 children.
54- Mohammed Jamal Al-Dalou, the father.
55- Ranin Mohammed Jamal Al-Dalou, 5 years old.
56- Jamal Mohammed Jamal Al-Dalou, 7 year old.
57- Yousef Mohammed Jamal Al-Dalou, 10 years old.
58- Ibrahim Mohammed Jamal Al-Dalou, 1 year old.
59- Jamal Al-Dalou, the grandfather.
60- Sulafa Al Dalou, 46 years old
61- Samah Al-Dalou, 25 years old
62- Tahani Al-Dalou, 50 years old
63- Ameina Matar Al-Mzanner, 83 years old.
64- Abdallah Mohammed Al-Mzanner, 23 years old.

Soon after Al-Dalou massacre, 2 more were killed, a father and his son, in an attack on a car for water supply in northern Gaza.
65- Suheil Hamada, 53 years old.

66-Mo’men Suheil Hamada, 13 years old.

In an airstrike that targeted Nussairat camp after that two people were murdered and 10 at least got injured

67- Atiyya Mubarak, 55 years old.

68- Hussam Abu Shaweish, 35 years old.

69- Samy Al-Ghfeir, 22 years old, killed in an attack on Shijaiyya area, west Gaza.

70- Mohammed Bakr Al-Of, 24 years old, killed in an attack on Al-Yarmouk st. in Gaza city.

At 8:00 pm, November 18, the ministry of health in Gaza has reported that Israel has risen the death toll in Gaza to 69, including 20 children, 8 women, and 9 elderly people. Moreover, Over 660 person got injured since Wednesday, including 224 children, 113 women, and 50 elderly people.
At 10:00 pm, November 18, an Israeli warplane attacked a motorbike near the ministry of finance roundabout, west Gaza, killing a father and his son:
71- Ahmad Abu Amra, 42 years old.
72- Nabil Ahmad Abu Amra, 20 years old.
At 10:10 pm, November 18, an Israeli warplane rocked a house belong to Nasser family near Abu-Sharekh crossroad in northern Gaza, killing a child and his father.
73- Hussein Jalal Nasser, 8 years old.

74- Jalal Nasser, 35 years old.

On November 19, the sixth day of the Israeli ongoing aggression on Gaza:

At 12:10 am, an Israeli warplane attacked Mahmoud Al-Hashash house in Rafah killing one woman.

75- Sabha Al-Hashash, 60 years old.

At 1:00 am, an Israeli warplane rocked a car in Rafah killing two people:

76- Saif Al-Deen Sadeq.

77- Hussam Al-Zeiny.

78- Emad Abu Hamda, 30 years old, killed after being seriously injured in as a drone fired a rocket at Beach camp, west Gaza.

79- Mohammed Jindiyya, mentally disabled, killed in an attack on Helles roundabout in Shijaiyya, west Gaza.

At 4:10 am, Israel committed another atrocious crime shelling a house belong to Azzam family that is full of children. 3 people were killed in this attack and at least 40 injured. Medics said that more than 15 children have arrived Shifaa hospital, three of them are in a very critical condition.

80- Mohammed Iyad Abu Zour, 4 years old.

81- Nisma Abu Zour, 19 years old.

82-Sahar Abu Zour

83- Ahed Al-Qattaty, 38 years old.

84- Al-Abd Mohammed Al-Attar, killed in an attack on Beit-Lahya, northern Gaza at 6:00 am.

85- Rama Al-Shandi, 1 YEAR OLD, killed as four F16s airstrikes hit former security compound Al-Saraya in Gaza City.

In an Israeli attack on Al-Qarara area to the south of the Gaza Strip, two farmers were killed at 8:50 am. In the same attack, a 4-year-old girl was seriously injured.

86. Ibrahim Suleiman al-Astal, 46 years old.

87. Omar Mahmoud Mohammed al-Astal, 14 years old.

As a warplane rocked a motorbike in Khan-Younis, southern the Gaza Strip, two people were killed:

88. Abdullah Harb Abu Khater, 21 years old.

89. Mahmoud Saeed Abu Khater, 34 years old.

An Apache warplane fired a rocket at a car in Al-Berka street in Deer Al-Balah, killing three people:

90. Rashid Alyan Abu Amra, 45 years old.

91. Amin Zuhdi Bashir, 40 years old.

92. Tamer Rushdi Bashir, 30 years old

93- Hussam Abdeljawad, killed as an F16 rocked his car in Saftawi street, northern Gaza, at 2:25 pm.

94- Ramadan Ahmad Mahmoud, 20 years old, died this morning after being seriously injured in an attack that hit Al-Maghazi camp, two days ago.

95- Mohammed Riyad Shamallakh, 23 years old, killed as IOF targeted a car in Tal Al-Hawa, southern Gaza city.

At around 4 am, two people were killed as an Israeli warplane fired a missile that hit Al-Nusseirat Camp, to the west of Gaza city.

96- A’ed Sabri Radi

97- Ameen Ramadan Al-Malahi

In an attack on Al-Shorouq building in Gaza City which contains several media offices, 2 were killed and 3 journalists were seriously injured.

98- Ramez Harb

99- Salem Sweilem

100- Muhammed Ziyad Tbeil, 25 years old, killed in an attack than hit central Gaza.

At 6:55 pm, an Israeli warplane attacked Al-Bureij camp killing two people:

101- Arkan Harbi Abu Kmeil

102- Ibrahim Mahmoud Al-Hawajri

At around 8:00 pm, an Israeli warplane shelled Shhada family’s house in Nusairat camp killing two people from the same family.

103- Khalil Shhada

104- Osama Shhada

At around 9:00 pm, Israel committed another massacre against Hjazi family killing a father and his two sons, and injuring at least 15, most of them are children and women.

106- Suhaib Fo’ad Hjazi, 2 years old.

107- Mohammed Fo’ad Hjazi, 4 years old.

108- Fo’ad khalil Hjazi

On November 20, the seventh day of the Israeli ongoing aggression on Gaza:

At around midnight, an Apache rocked a house in Rafah that belongs to Nassarsa family, killing two siblings and injuring 10 others.

109- Mohammed Tawfeeq Al-Nassasra, 20 years old.

110- Ahmad Tawfeeq Al-Nassasra, 18 years old.

111- Yahya Akram Ma’roof, 38 years old, a farmer killed at 9:20 am as an Israeli warplane attacked agricultural lands in Al-Atatra area, northern Gaza. Four other farmers were injured in this attack.

In an Israeli attack on an agricultural land in Beit-Layha, northern Gaza, at 10:10 am, two people were killed:

112- Yahya Mohammed Awad, 15 years old.

113- Bilal Jihad Al-Barawi, 20 years old.

114- Mahmoud Rezq Salman Al-Zahhar, killed in an attack on Al-Mughraqa are in the middle of the Gaza strip.

115- Abderrahman Hamad Abu Hamza, 22 years old, killed at 12:10 pm in an Israeli attack on Mokhabarat buildings, west Gaza.

116- Mohammed Abed-Rabbo Yousef Bader, killed at 12:20 pm as IOF targeted Abu Tama’a family in Deer-AlBalah, in middle the Gaza Strip, at 12:20 pm.

117- Ahmad Khaled Doghmosh, died in Egypt after being transferred to a hospital in Egypt for being seriously injured in an airstrike that hit Tal Al-Hawa on November 18.

Within 1 hour and while negotiating the truce between Israel and Hamas, Israel committed another massacre killing at least 14 people.

At 4:20, an Israeli warplane rocked a car in Al-Sabra neighborhood, leaving four people from the same family killed and torn to pieces:

118- Ahmad Jameel Hamdan Doghmosh

119- Sobhi Nemer Mohammed Doghmosh

120- Salah Nemer Mohammed Doghmosh

121- Musab Mahmoud Rushdi Doghmosh

122- Ameen Mahmoud Asad Al-Dadda, 22 years old, killed in an Israeli attack on Baghdad street in Shijaeyya, west Gaza at 2:30 pm.

In an attack on Kishko street in Zaytoon street, two children were killed while playing football in front of their house:

123- Mohamoud Rezeq Ashoor

124- Saqer Yousef Bulbul

125- Ayman Rafiq Abu Rashid, 50 years old, killed in an Israeli attack on Jabalia camp, northern Gaza.In the same attack, a 5-year-old girl was seriously injured.

In another attack on Al-Shawwa family’s house in Shijaeyya, west Gaza, a young woman arrived at Shifa hospital as charred pieces. 20 people were injured in this attack at least, 3 cases are severe.

126- Yosra Basil Murtada Al-Shawwa

At 5:55 pm, an Israeli warplane attacked a press car working for Al-Aqsa TV station in Nasser street in Gaza city killing two journalists. They were just holding their cameras, reporting on the ongoing attacks…

127- Mahmoud Ali Ahmad Al-Koomi

128- Hussam Mohammed Abderrahman Salama

At 6:10 pm, two more were killed in an attack on Beit-Hanoon, northern Gaza.

129- Mahmoud Mohammed Hussein Al-Zahry

130- Tareq Azmy Mustafa Hjeila

At 6:50 pm, an Israeli missile hit a car in Deer Al-Balah killing two people:

131- Mohammed Musa Abu Eisha, the manager of Al-Quds educational radio.

132- Hassan Yousef Al-Ostaz, 22 years old.

At 8:30, two brothers were killed in an Israeli attack that targeted a motorbike in Bilbeisy street in Rafah:

133- Ahmad Abed Abu Moor, 24 years old.

134- Khaled Abed Abu Moor, 19 years old.

At 9:00 am, two cousins were killed in an Israeli attack on Deer Al-Balah:

135- Mohammed Ahmad Abu Sitta

136- Salem ‘Ayish Abu Sitta

137- Shawqi Abu Sneima, 24 years old, killed as Israeli warplane targeted his motorbike in Rafah.

At 11:45 pm, two people were found as pieces in Al-Shouka area, western Rafah.

138- Ibrahim Ahmad Mahmoud Hamad

139- Mahmoud Kahlil Al-Arja, 16 years old.

On November 21, the eighth day of the Israeli ongoing aggression on Gaza:

At 9:25 am: an Israeli warplane hit two places in Northern Gaza:

140- Abdallah Asseela, killed in as attack on Tal Al-Za’tar, northern Gaza.

141- Mustafa Awad Abu Hamidan, killed in an attack on Al-Shafi’y mousque compound in Jabalia, northern Gaza.

At 11:20 am, an Israeli warplane attacked a group of people in Khan-Younis, killing a child:

142- Ahmad Awad Abu’liyyan, 15 years old.

143- Fares Sbeita, 23 years old, died at noon after being seriously injured in an attack on Shijaeyya, west Gaza.

A young girl and her elderly father were killed at 1:30 pm in an Israeli attack on a group of civilians in Abasan area, west Khan-Younis.

144- Ameera Abu Nasser, 21 years old.

145- Ibrahim Abu Nasser, 70 years old.

146- Mohammed Adnan Al-Ashqar, 22 years old, killed in an attack on Al-Khuzundar gaz station in Al-Twam area, northern area, at 2:00 pm

147- Mahmoud Abu Khusa, 4 years old, killed in an attack on Al-Nafaq street in Gaza City.

At 2:40 pm, an Israeli missile hit a house belongs to Al-Assaly family killing a man and his son and daughter:

148- Talal Al-Assaly, 47 years old.

149- Ayman Talal Al-Assaly, 17 years old.

150- Hadil Talal Al-Assaly

151- Abderrahman Na’eem, 6 years old, killed in an Israeli attack on Ne’ma building in Gaza City. In the same attack, 3 children from Neim family also got injured.

152- Riham Al-Nabaheen, 4 years old, killed in an Israeli attack on house in Nussairat camp in the middle of the Gaza Strip

153- Mubarak Ibrahim Abu Ghalwa, killed in an attack on the middle of the Gaza Strip

154- Mohammed Mohammed Baker, 27 years old, died after being seriously injured in an attack on Al-Sabra neighborhood on Monday.

155- Ibrahim Mheisin Shhada, killed In an attack on Al-Na’ga street, to the west of Jabalia camp, northern Gaza.

In an attack on a house that belongs to Abu Kmeil family in Al-Mughraqa area in the middle of the Gaza Strip, 5 people were killed:

156- Ramy Abeid

157- Mohammed Salama Abu Eteiwy

158- Nidal Hassan Abu Riyad

159- Sa’dy Abu Kmeil

160- Ahmad Abu Kmeil

As negotiations about ceasefire is going, more bombs fall over several places in the Gaza Strip killing a child and injuring at least 7 people.

161- Nader Yousef Abu Mghaseeb, 14 years old.

162- Mohammed Ayish, killed in an Israeli attack on Sheikh-Redwan bridge in Gaza City at 8:50 pm.

163- Mohammed Abu Edwan

164- Abdallah Hussein

A man and a woman from Al-Dalou family were found buried beneath the rubble on Thursday, November 22, after three days of their death. Israel committed a massacre against Al-Dalou family on Monday. The paramedics managed to pull out ten dead bodies in that attack (Check the list from 54 to 64) The death toll in this single massacre rises to 12 people.

165- Mohammed Al-Dalou, 35 years old.

166- Samaher Al-Dalou

On Friday, November 23, three people died due to their wounds sustained during the 8-day attack on Gaza:

167- Ahmad Abu Momseh, 10 years old, injured as an F16 warplane attacked a group of civilians in Maghazi camp, central Gaza Strip.

168- Zaki Saeed Mohadadah, 42 years old.

169- Jouda Sulaiman Amran Shamallakh, 30 years old.

After the truce was endorsed at 9:00 pm on Wednesday, Israel has violated the truce killing one as the Israeli Occupation Forces started shooting at the farmers in the southern Gaza village of Khuzaa, close to the buffer-Zone. Nineteen other Palestinians suffered gunshot wounds.

170- Anwar Abdelhadi Qdeih, 21 years old.
Keep following this post. I’m going to keep updating it on everything that is happening as much as I can and as long as I’m breathing!

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/victims.html

2012

November 20
Cpl. Yosef Fartuk (18) – Emmanuel
Alayaan Salem al-Nabari – Negev

November 15
Mirah Scharf (25) – Kiryat Malachi
Aharon Smadga (40) – Kiryat Malachi
Yitzhak Amselam (22) – Kiryat Malachi

September 21
Cpl Netanel Yahalomi (20) – Nof Ayalon

June 18
Said Pashpasha (36) – Haifa

June 1
Staff-Sgt Netanel Moshiashvili (21) – Ashkelon

rest of the palestinian numbers for 2012 before the current operations.

1 January to 23 October
Palestinians: 70+

24-27 October
Palestinians: 6

29 October to 1 November
Palestinians: 1

2 November to 5 November
Palestinians: 2

8 November to 10 November
Palestinians: 7 (3 children)

14 November
This was the first day of Operation Pillar of Cloud
Palestinians: 13 (including 2-3 children and 1 woman)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deaths_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict,_2012

apologies if I’ve missed anything out.

Peace in the middle east ? What chance of that when even in the west we can’t debate it without mud slinging and insults.There will sadly never be a true peace in that region. The Arab states will accept the Jews and no American president will ever turn/withdraw its support of Israel as it would be political suicide. So guys debate it by all means but chill and do it without insults as nothing will change.

Those statistics are a sad reflection of the fact that Hamas has no regard for the value of human life. On the contrary, sacrifice / death to advance their cause is one of their very objectives:

Per article eight of Hamas charter, ‘The Slogan of Hamas’

Allah is its goal, the Prophet its model, the Qur’an its Constitution, Jihad its path and death for the case of Allah its most sublime belief.

Perhaps that is one reason why they don’t distinguish militants and civilian deaths.

Actually, following the second of seosamh’s links you can see that there were actually 121 rockets fired into Israel in the three days prior to Jabri’s Assassination..supporting once again that Hamas initiated this latest round of escalation.

Those statistics are a sad reflection of the fact that Hamas has no regard for the value of human life. On the contrary, sacrifice / death to advance their cause is one of their very objectives:

It’s interesting how little caring or compassion you have about any of those numerous deaths (including children). You’re so blinded by hatred and the desire to absolve Israel from any responsibility whatsoever.

I notice you’ve repeated the lie about Iran wanting to wipe Israel off the map, when actually they’ve called for the destruction of the Zionist regime, and specifically said they have no desire to attack Israel. Can Israel say the same?

FFS

Iranian–Israeli relations have shifted from close ties between Israel and Iran during the era of the Pahlavi dynasty to hostility since the Islamic Revolution led by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini. Iran has severed all diplomatic and commercial ties with Israel, and its government does not recognize Israel as a country and refers to its government as the “Zionist regime.” The land is referred to by Iran as “Occupied territories.”

Not happy about the names, it does put a perspective on how futile this conflict is / has become. Do I blame Israel for that. No I blame both parties.

Hysteria over Iranian phraseology (rhetoric with a long political history) relies solely on the presumption – repeated ad nauseum by politicians and the press – that the nation’s leadership has threatened to attack Israel militarily and wipe it off the map. But Iran has never made such threats. Quite the contrary.

Speaking to Wolf Blitzer in April 2006, Iran’s representative to the IAEA, Ali Ashgar Soltanieh, directly addressed claims that Iran seeks the physical destruction of Israel (whatever that means).

Blitzer asked, “Should there be a state of Israel?,” to which Soltanieh replied, “If Israel is a synonym and will give the indication of Zionist mentality, no. But if you are going to conclude that we have said the people there have to be removed or they have to be massacred, this is a fabricated, unfortunate selective approach to what the mentality and policy of Islamic Republic of Iran is.”

In a June 2006 letter to The Washington Post, a spokesman for the Iranian Mission to the United Nations wrote, “Iran’s position is very clear: We have not threatened to use force nor have we used force against any country or government in the past 250 years. We’ve never done that in the past, and we’ll never do it in the future,” adding, “We wonder whether Israel or the United States can make the same statement.”

The letter also noted that, the same month, Iranian leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei declared that “We have no problem with the world. We are not a threat whatsoever to the world, and the world knows it. We will never start a war. We have no intention of going to war with any state.”

In October 2006, President Ahmadinejad stated, “Nuclear weapons have no place in Iran’s defense doctrine and Iran is not a threat to any country. … We are not a threat to anybody; even our solution to the Zionist regime is a referendum.”

The following year, Ahmadinejad was asked by the Associated Press whether Iran “would ever make a first strike against Israel.” He replied, “Iran will not attack any country,” and insisted Iran has “always maintained a defensive policy, not an offensive one” and has no interest in territorial expansion, something Israel could never seriously claim.

In a 2008 CNN interview with Larry King, Ahmadinejad stated bluntly that “we don’t have a problem with the Jewish people,” and added, with specific reference to Israel, “We are opposed to the idea that the people who live there should be thrown into the sea or be burnt.”

The same year, at a news conference during the D8 Summit in Kuala Lumpur, Ahmadinejad told reporters that because he believes the Zionist enterprise of ethnic cleansing and colonization is “inherently doomed” to failure, “there is no need for Iranians to take action” to hasten the inevitable political outcome in Palestine. He also assured the press, “You should not be concerned about a new war.”

He also made his position clear in an NPR interview, saying, “Let me create an analogy here — where exactly is the Soviet Union today? It did disappear — but exactly how? It was through the vote of its own people. So therefore in Palestine too we must allow the people, the Palestinians, to determine their own future.”

During an October 2011 interview, Ahmadinejad told Al Jazeera that Iran “will never enter any war against the U.S. or against any other country. This is our policy. … We have never attacked anybody. Why should we do that? Why should we start a war?”

This past July, Mohammad Khazaee, Iran’s ambassador to the United Nations said, “We will react if there is any provocative act from the other side. We will not initiate any provocative steps.”

Official assessments by both Director of National Intelligence James Clapper and Lieutenant General Ronald Burgess, Director of Defense Intelligence Agency, have affirmed that “Iran is unlikely to initiate or intentionally provoke a conflict or launch a preemptive attack.”

Iran-Israel: Who’s Threatening Whom?

You can argue it’s a biased article of course but the quotes are real.

In case I have to state the obvious, I’m not a ‘fan’ of the Iranian regime either. But if we’re going to talk about media bias I woud argue there’s a far greater smear campaign going on against Iran to talk up the ‘threat’ they pose than there is of Israel.

In a reminder that Persian rhetoric is not always easy for English-speakers to interpret, a senior Israeli official has acknowledged that Iran’s president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, never actually said that Israel “must be wiped off the map.”

Those words were attributed to Mr. Ahmadinejad in 2005, in English translations of his speech to a “World Without Zionism” conference that October. As my colleague Ethan Bronner reported the next year, one problem was translating a metaphorical turn of phrase in Persian that has no exact English equivalent — there was, for instance, no mention of a map — and there was a heated debate about whether the original statement was a threat or a prediction.

Last week, Teymoor Nabili of Al Jazeera suggested during an interview with Dan Meridor, Israel’s minister of intelligence and atomic energy, that Mr. Ahmadinejad’s rhetorical flourish had been misinterpreted. “This idea that Iran wants to wipe Israel out,” Mr. Nabili said, “now that’s a common trope that is put about by a lot of people in Israel, a lot of people in the United States, but as we know Ahmadinejad didn’t say that he plans to exterminate Israel, nor did he say that Iran’s policy is to exterminate Israel.”

In response, Mr. Meridor said that Mr. Ahmadinejad and Iran’s ruling cleric, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, had said repeatedly “that Israel is an unnatural creature, it will not survive. They didn’t say, ‘We’ll wipe it out,’ you’re right, but, ‘It will not survive.’ ”

That’s alright them …. silly me – misinterpreted.

A bit like the Hamas Character I was reading during the week.That one is written down but again its taken out of context….. doh.

Maybe this rabbit was misinterpreted

I’ve went to Israel (For a rowing competition) in 1985 when I was a gobby south london 17 year old. I’m sorry to say I hated it. I did jump in to stop two IDFs kicking the crap out of a youth in Jerusalem and had an M16 pointed at me and was told to mind my own business so **** off. I sarcastically suggested that it might be better to hit the kid with the butt of the M16 as it would be quicker. They were on their radios calling for back up when I was bundled away by my mates…. but at least the beating stopped. Maybe self embrassement? I dont know?

We knew the youth was a Palestine so we bought the head gear and dressed up for evening meal on the Friday night at the Kibutz. Hmmm that didn’t go down too well at all with the kitchen staff threatening to walk out. Unfortunatly this was compounded by us by swimming on the Saturday.

So I’m not a fan. However if you keep lobbing stones then I’m sorry to say I have little sympathy.

samj – Member

Actually, following the second of seosamh’s links you can see that there were actually 121 rockets fired into Israel in the three days prior to Jabri’s Assassination..supporting once again that Hamas initiated this latest round of escalation. So just ignore the 80+ people israeli killed this year prior to that.

Trying to pin a start date is about as disingenuous as you can get.