Another fine day for freedom of speech

yeah OK 😐

Yes Surfer, Islam does bully it’s believers. Religion sucks! ALL religion. Baseless superstitious nonsense which divides people – most wars are caused by religious conflict afterall.

I am sure that Rudeboy is correct on his point about the media. Most newspapers are full of bullshit and journalists often have their own agenda. Don’t buy newspapers!

I’m sure that there has been huge provocation of Muslins by the media and by certain western powers. The origins of this conflict started way back in 1948 when the Jews were given large tracts of arab land by western powers. The continuing one-sided view of the Israel/Palestinian conflict clearly reinforces the grievance felt by so many Muslims. This injustice needs to be sorted out.

Conversely, where was all the support from the Muslim countries when we were fighting for the welfare of Muslims in the Balkan conflict?

What uspsets me about Britain is that we are all told how we should think. Minorities get special treatment when they should be treated no differently from anyone else. Too much idealist PC nonsense is rammed down out throats on a daily basis and the passive indiginous majority is made to feel guilty for existing, let alone expressing an opinion! Any mention of debate on this matter and the thought police immediately shout racist. The message to me is; “put up and shut up”!

E.G. We are currently under a governemnt review in my county, to make available land for 49 extra Gypsy sites. We have twice as many sites as neighbouring counties already. These sites will compulsorily take private green belt land that cannot be built on for the much needed housing of the local population! The proposals in themselves have blighted the values of the homes in close proximity to these proposed sites. This is pure discrimination against our community. And the government rules state that we cannot object on the basis that a gypsy site next to our homes will affect propety values. A move with no regard for the tax paying law abiding majority, once again! If gypsies want to live in a community they should get a proper place to live and integrate, just like everyone else! The cultural need to live in a caravan is nonsense and nobody rolling up from another country should have a right to any public services without paying for these.

We should be working to integrate better. I read about all sorts of minorities trying to preserve their identity, their so called culture, what makes them different. Take the Welsh and the resurgence of the use of their language. Nobody speaks Welsh anywhere in the world other than Wales and all this serves to do is protect Welsh jobs – Welsh is a pre-requisite for many jobs – pure discrimination – how is the EU allowing this! They are speaking a foreign language that alienates themselves from the rest of the British commumity. It is just divisive and totally counterproductive.

We hear about Muslims gong to tribunals about the insistence on wearing certain items of clothing. We worry about offending those people, but I find it highly offensive when someone covers their face when speaking to you! Afterall, it is not the custom of this country to cover your face in public, so why foist an inappropriate muslim custom on out culture? Conversely, a british woman working for B.A. gets disciplined by her employer for refusing not to wear a cross. B.A, were scared that this might offend someone. NAtivity scenes are banned from chairty shop wwindow’s at Christmas for fear of causing offence. Have we gone mad? One rule for minorities, one rule for the indiginous majority! The B.A. employee won her case, but with conditions as I recall. Why should we tolerate this? Look at the intolerance of western cultural habits in arab countries – it’s virtually zero! Look the repression of women in arab countires – to their own women e.g the stoning of a teenage rape victim. Barbaric people living in the dark ages! Don’t tell me we should subscribe to Sharia law in this counrty! The Arch Bishop of Canterbury made comments that we would have to adopt elements of Sharia law – NO WE WON’T YOU NUMPTY!!!!!

Every minority seems to be going off the end of the scale here, trying to be different, to make a statement. In effect alienating themselves from the mainstream. This is crazy divisive behaviour which helps nobody. We should be working towards integrating and finding common ground. Working to a set of equal standards. Minorities currently stamp their feet and the authorities cave in to their demands to impose their culture on our way of life.

Devolution – another divisive thing. If we had an English assembly the playing field would be even and the sytem would be credible. Instead we have an expensive set of local parliaments taking care of the minorities needs again. Two tier health care, education etc etc. Patently unfair!

The passive indiginous majority just have to put up and shut up whilst being overlooked. We are overlooked on so many more issues. Take the strikes over the importing of Italian and Portugese labour to do jobs where there is plenty of local expertise. British people who are in need of work. Gordon spouts on about EU employment law, but would the Portugese or the Italians put up with this on their doorstep? Yeah right!

This thread will run and run. The issues of discrimination and unfairness to the British population are continually ignored and over the past 20-30 years my attitude has become more nationalistic. That worries me greatly, but it has been brought about by weak governments (all parties) selling us down the river. Politicians who have overlooked issues that are important to ordinary people.

I think i’m done ranting now!

passive indiginous majority

You’ve used that expression twice. Would you like to educate me as to who these indiginous people might be ?

Spongebob; So many words, yet so little actual content worthy of consideration.

But your entitled to your own opinions, no matter how ignorant and bigoted they may be.

Blimey. it’s like reading a BNP manifesto, that lot! Sensationalising an exaggerating particular aspects of foreign culture (aspect carefully chosen to attempt to justify the rest of the bile), and suggesting that there is an ‘indigenous majority’, to try and offer some sort of cosy comradeship with others who feel alienated and disaffected.

You talk about ‘integration’, yet what you really mean, is preventing any cultural practices other than what you consider to be ‘British’.

You raise some good points about certain negative aspects of culture and practices carried out in certain Islamic societies(these are not actually aspects of faith, however), but sadly, you’ve only included these to reinforce your pathetic jingoistic ‘argument’.

Seems like you’ve lifted most of that out of the pages of our Favourite Newspapers. Not particularly imaginative.

I feel sorry for you, I really do.

Rivers of Blood blah blah blah…

what happened who converted Rudeboy? I left on page three he was talking nonesense and I though rather right wing. I come back he in now a lone voice of reason in this nonesense. Now that does worry me
All faiths want to convert non believers Islam is no different … it does not mean it will use force to do so (though aminority of its follwoers would).
Spongebob

Every minority seems to be going off the end of the scale here, trying to be different, to make a statement. In effect alienating themselves from the mainstream.

You do know what the word minority means don’t you? Last time I looked it was to be different from the majority and not like the mainstream like say an asian Muslim in a white christian community or say a Gypsy well anywhere in the world. How can they NOT be a minority and not be diiferent should they fully assimilate or should we also accomodate (like the pun there!!!)

my attitude has become more nationalistic. That worries me greatly, but it has been brought about by weak governments (all parties) selling us down the river

yes when ever my viewpoint changes on an issue I dont think it down to me thinking about issues and being changed by say facts or the like just blame other parties for selling us down the river [of blood]
Foolish foolish statements

what happened who converted Rudeboy? I left onpage thre he wastalking nonesense and I though rather right wing

Rudepaddedfred right wing? – you’ll be giving the little fella nightmares

Islam is a threat

Unbelievable.

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More than sixty years after previous generations thought they had thrown that sort of bollox into the dustbin of history, it rears it ugly head again.

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Muslims aren’t a threat, Jews aren’t a threat, gays aren’t a threat, Gypsies aren’t a threat.

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Again we find ourselves in the depths of an economic crises, again we search for scapegoats for all of our ills.

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So why don’t we just have a nice big war ? Perhaps we can attack some Islamic countries since Islam is such a threat to us. How about the ones with lots of oil ? – that would have added advantage of giving us access to nice and cheap energy supplies during these difficult and hard economic times.

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And since we’re under threat, let’s suspend democracy. Let’s just round up all those we feel are a threat and keep them in large camps, without any of this “human rights” nonsense. Let’s do what Geert Wilders suggests and ban the Koran – and any other books which we feel are a threat to us. Let’s have big “book burning” events.

And since this country is under threat from Islam, let’s close down all Muslim shops and businesses. Let’s have ID cards which it state whether the holder is a Muslim – it will make it so much easier for the authorities to identify potential threats. Let’s strike at the heart of the threat and fire-bomb mosques – after all, our civilisation is under threat and we are fighting a war against terror, so a bit of bombing is quite justifiable then.

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All a bit out of context and over the top ? Well it’s a slippery slope down the road of hate and bigotry – once you go down it, things just start to accelerate. And we appear to have got over the first vital hurdle by establishing that “Islam is a threat”.

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The only things which threaten us, are man’s stupidity. And doesn’t man’s stupidity have so many faces ?
From climate change and failed economic experiments, to bigotry and hate.

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Unbelievable.

Well said GG

All a bit melodramatic isnt it.

Nobody is trying to stifle free speech just a few people getting hysterical when challenged.
You mentioned book burning which is akin to stifling free expression yet you want to stop somebody speaking so in a democratic society.

Some people are certainly afraid of something.

We can agree that mans stupidity threatens us. However when that stupidity is reinforced by a book that millions of people order their lives by then there certainly is a risk.

I learned today that the chap who made this film, and got so upset that he wasn’t allowed “free speech” wants the Koran banned…Feel the irony.

– Enoch was right!

– No he wasn’t! Enoch was Hitler!!!!

Let’s look at it from another way. I don’t consider Islam itself, or even those using it as an excuse/smokescreen to justify some very unpleasant activities, a threat to the culture of the UK or Europe. Those individuals are a real threat to some very unlucky people certainly, just like our elected representatives were/are a very real threat to many Muslims…

I suppose you could say that Demographics is the threat here, if you like I would prefer not to live in a society similar to any of those currently with Islam dominant…But again, you could say that it’s not Islam that is at fault here, merely Theocracy (Saudi Arabia, one of the UK/US’ bestest friends apparently) grinding poverty and seemingly endless war (Afganistan) or grinding poverty and centuries of exploitation (Sudan).Look at the growth of extremism in Germany probably due to the conditions imposed on the population after the first world war.
Should I be alive in a hundred or so years, what with birthrates differing between “western” and “muslim” cultures as they seem to do, Europe could indeed have a Muslim majority. But then again, what usually happens a generation or two from poverty, is that people tend to have much smaller families.

Since i’m most likely not going to live for another hundred years, my more immediate concerns lie with the very real possibility of fuel and resource wars that will be fought in my name, the new demonisation of nations that will compete (ie the rather well equipped to deal with recent hardship China for starters), the news laws and memes/ideas introduced to society to make this global divide and rule situation possible rather than work together to try and sort it out as best we possibly could, and already the new laws that inhibit protest and exchange of ideas.

By the way, in response to the op, I personally feel that his audience in the House of Lords would have led to nowt, nothing at all, but consolidates the idea that it’s better to deny a voice to someone, rather than give them the opportunity to make a fool of themselves and learn to live with criticism, which the Islamic fundies with their rather sensitive skins could learn from. So IMO , own goal.

Tried to edit this bit

“But then again, what usually happens a generation or two from poverty, is that people tend to have much smaller families.”

to include

“,education levels increase and “liberal values” become dominant….”

but left it too late.

Your original post was fine sodafarls.

In fact imo it was better without the reference to “liberal values” becoming dominant.

Yeah I agree – indeed you would have thought so. However, as we’ve become more prosperous, we have apparently started to lose our “liberal values” 😯

Let’s do what Geert Wilders suggests and ban the Koran – and any other books which we feel are a threat to us.

Or you could just ban films we feel are a threat to us, and those promoting them. Do you think that might be the start of a slippery slope too, GG, or is that different?

Banning Mr Wilders from saying the Koran should be banned is just as bad as banning the Koran – or is at least a step along the road to considering it reasonable to ban some books. If you can make a case for him inciting violence, then you could just as well make a case for the Koran itself inciting violence (stop and think before you flame me – however abhorrent the suggestion that all muslims are terrorists is, I’d suggest that some terrorists are indeed muslims and take some of their inspiration from that very book).

aracer – its not that the film has been banned – the person involved has not been allowed into the country as his presence would not be conducive to the public good. Not the same thing at all.

But he was allowed in very recently, so it’s obviously not inherently simply his presence which is the problem – the only reason he’s been banned this time is because he was going to present his film.

Fo sure – its a subtle differance but he has no rights to be here or to show his film – wheras he does in Holland or would do heree if he was a UK citizen

Is it allowed to come back to the original point then – on exactly what grounds was it that he was not allowed in to show his film (given I understood that EU citizens had freedom of movement) if he would have been allowed to show it had he been a UK citizen?

The UK government has the right to refuse admission to the country to anyone EU or not if their presence is not conducive to the public good or if they suspect a crime would be commited – don’t know the exact wording or which bit of the law

There is no real defensible point in my opinion aracer. Nulabour don’t like upsetting ideas or opinions being given any voice. The idea that they actually are concerned about public order and satisfaction is in my opinion nonsense. Whenever the wrong type of protest squeezes through the many newly invented hoops and over the appropriate hurdles, all they have to do is apply the strong arm of the law (a police force with no qualms about going on the offensive in these situations) and a compliant media to report the story back to front to an apathetic and brainwashed populace to discredit the idea and frighten the potential protestors out of going on the streets in the first place. They also this time have in their quiver a substantial quantity of clueless card carrying capital “L” liberals willing to support them for the feelgood factor, as opposed to genuine liberals who are naturally averse to censorship of ideas.

LOL at GG.

The epitomy of someone taking the internet too seriously.

LOL at GG.

Why thank you ………. you know, it’s those special moments when one puts a smile on someone else’s face, which makes life so worthwhile 🙂

spongebob – would you like to expand on this?
“The passive indiginous majority”

Is that the Picts? celtic tribes? Certainly not the anglo saxons or the normans as they are not indiginous to the area. What about the welsh? cornish?

You do know that the inhabitants of these isles are some of the most mixed peoples in the world. Successive generations of immigrants have moved in over thousands of years.

spongebob – would you like to expand on this?
“The passive indiginous majority”

I asked him the same question yesterday but he didn’t seem to want to answer. I’m intrigued to find out what this phrase means exactly. I’ve heard it once or twice before from people with nationalist/racist views.

“Passive indigenous majority” is usually BNP speak for whites

But it’s such an easy phrase to pick holes in that I can’t believe that the BNP would choose to use it. Maybe they’re just too dim to realise that indiginous doesn’t mean Anglo Saxon.

Extremism and Freedom of Speech

hey RubeBoy, I take it you also “pity” the Sun Newspaper and any others that you dont agree with?

Britain and the world has gone mad.

No such thing as freedom of speech….U will always upset some c**t.

I thought this rather clever, stolen from b3ta

enfht

Nice rant from the sun there – trolling or are you stupid enough to believe it? a quick glance showed it to be a load of utter tripe.

Like it Flashy – its exactly the issue I have with “no platform for racists”

TandemJeremy, I guess I’m “stupid” enough to belive it, stupid

is there some sort of version of ‘Godwin’s Law’ that you can invoke for people who use The Sun as an apparently reliable source to back their beliefs?

Funnily enough, my biggest exposure to fascist/xenophobic ideology has actually come through reading anti-fascist stuff, which has actually taken the time to dissect and analyse such vile filth, thus possibly giving it more publicity/exposure than it might receive on it’s own.

Don’t see a problem with opposing nasty, hateful views, actually. They are wrong, simple as that. A mental illness, in some cases, I’d say.

I don’t see opposing facist/racist/xenophobic politics and ideology as opposing ‘Free Speech’, just opposing fear and hate.

being anti fascist is like being anti murder or violence of course it limits other peoples freedoms but what they want to do with the freedom is utterly unaceptable and we have to oppose them.

Our appeasement of islam appalls me. It only seems to get worse, cos the appeasers just ignore what’s plain to see, and call anyone who doesn’t like it a racist.

He can’t show his film, and we ban him from the country, while allowing this on our streets:

I, as many sensible people do, realise that the pictures shown above really represent a very small minority within the Muslim communtiy and insisting they are representative of Islam is the same as saying NIck Griffin and his chums are representative of all white people.

I do love this ironic one though,

You say they’re a very small minority, however muslims don’t come forward to say so. You never see one on tv or hear one on the radio that has a good word to say about the west, promotes any kind of better understanding or integration. They’re always about themselves, how we must change to accomodate them – without being prepared to shift 1 micron in our direction.

That Burger King ice cream looks a bit like Allahs name, you’ve insulted us, you must remove it immedaitely and appologise to us – which is pretty much what happened.

You say they’re a very small minority, however muslims don’t come forward to say so.

Of course they are a small minority. How large is the UK Muslim population? How large were the crowds that featured in your pictures?

If every Muslim was some nut who thought the west were all infidels why were the crowds so comparatively small?

Perhaps the Daily Wail isn’t the best source for information if you wish field an argument that holds water.

Toowundred!