Another fine day for freedom of speech

What you on about enfht ?

The American politician Louis Farrakhan who is leader of the Nation of Islam has been banned from the UK for over 20 years.

He doesn’t talk about “the beheading of unbelievers, or for women to be wrapped in sheets dumped in a hole and stoned to death”

He’s been banned by all governments include conservative governments for “threatening public order”

A news piece last night was surprisingly right. They should have let him in and had a board set up to dissemble (or agree) with his views. To just say ‘out’ promotes whatever views he has to a much wider audience. I never knew he existed before.

Even under EU law, EU citizens do not have an alienable right to enter the UK. If the UK authorities believe that allowing entry to any foreigner is not conducive to the public good, then they may be banned.

I have no problem with that, and it is not a “freedom of speech” issue. It is about the democratic right of the UK government to protect it’s citizens from any possible destructive actions by an undesirable alien.

GG we know all this. What many on here dont agree with is the interpretation of this man as a threat. How can his visit be destructive?

If you think I’m defending Wilders, then presumably you also think Niemöller was defending communists

Of course he was defending communists. What do think the point of his statement was ?

We allow Ibrahim Mousawi in to preach his hate – what’s the difference?

We allow Ibrahim Mousawi in to preach his hate – what’s the difference?

American arm-twisting/influence on our foreign policy?

I can’t imagine the Americans siding with him

Of course he was defending communists. What do think the point of his statement was ?

😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

I’m laughing so hard I can’t possibly begin to explain how much you’ve missed the point by.

I think farakan has been a bit more pointed i his hatred than you believe, stuff about white devils etc. Wilders aint said anything close to this, and no I dont support Wilders, just democracy and freedom of speech. I like the point made in an earlier post about wilders not saying anything at all in Fitna..

“threatening public order”, more like increasing the likelyhood of Lord Ahmed’s threat to march 10,00 muslims on parliament. Our Government is too weak and has no balls. Let wilders speak ffs

Obviously you’ve completely missed the point of Niemöller statement aracer.

……. never mind.

No US dictating foreign policy, trying to stop a undesirable national any platform overseas where he could gather more support. Hence US leans on the Uk to deny him a soap box (and probably other US-friendly nations as well). If he talks all around the world it will look like he is well travelled, intelligent and has support (perceived) across the globe.

and for the record the nation of islam preach separatism and anti-white racism. I had the pleasure of meeting their float at the notting hill carnival, they were handing out leaflets to everyone who wasn’t white, so me being me I asked for a leaflet and I’m sure they would have bioled me alive given half the chance, still makes me chuckle remembering all their faces staring at me, they couldnt do f*ck cos it was a public place the racist scum. And no I didnt get a leaflet.

Hora – I’m talking about Mousawi

If the US were doing that you’d think they’d be more interested in stopping him rather than the Dutch Nazi

enfht there is alot of inter-tribe conflict in African. Across all colours and groups. If colour isnt there its a group/physical difference. No one is ‘more’ guilty. Its whoever is stronger as well.

Let him in.
Bollocks to the Muslim Council of Britain.
If its not acceptable then feel free to move to an Islamic state.

We’ve already thrown the bloody doors open to anyone who fancies having a go at us. And thanks to short-sighted career politicians passing feel-good human rights laws there’s **** all we can do about it now.

I miss your point hora?

for the record the nation of islam preach separatism and anti-white racism

Yep, a very nasty bunch. And I don’t have any problem whatsoever with their leader being denied entry into the UK.

As far as Ibrahim Mousawi is concerned, if he whipped up hatred against Christians by referring to their bible as a fascist book and calling for it to be banned then he too, should be excluded from the UK. I don’t think he did though.

In the UK we have a tolerant democratic society, and if foreigners don’t like it and want to preach intollerance and hate, then they can just bugger off as far as I’m concerned.

TandemJeremy – Member

BTW – huffington post – the house paper of the neocon right

The famously liberal Huffington Post is now the house paper of the neocon right? zomg!

Ok it’s not the “Workers Hammer” but Neocom right?

eek Neocons under the bed[/url]

Wiki on Huff

Bollocks to the Muslim Council of Britain.

Right, of course, because that’s intelligent… 😯

Why do people feel ‘threatened’ by Islam? Why do you believe the Islamophobic sensationalist hate spouted by the right-wing media, so much? Do you not **** get it, that’ it’s part of a ‘divide and rule’ policy; get people hating each other, impose stricter and stricter forms of social control, people can be managed much more easily, in smaller groups.

From the perspective of someone who has experience of living within an Islamic ‘community’, I think some of the ignorance on here is not surprising, but quite sad, really. Since 911, Islamophobia has increased exponentially, in the West, to the extent that people now see Islam as a ‘threat’.

Islam, in itself, is no more a threat to Western, or even Global, Civilisation, than is Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism etc. Islam, like many religions, can be used as a smokescreen, behind which extremist groups can perpetrate their abhorrent acts. Could be argued that the Western Neocons use Christian Fundamentalism in the same way.

Certain factions in the West have carried out a steady program of agitation and aggression against the Islamic World, in a bid to become the Supreme Rulers of this planet. To control it’s people, and the resources upon which they depend. Through manipulation of the media, to implementing divisive and discriminatory policies, Governments like ours have engineered a state of ‘fear’, which has led to paranoia and hatred amongst ordinary people. Since 911, attacks on Asian and ‘Muslim’ people have increased dramatically. Arrests of innocent people, and the attempts by the police to create ‘villains’, has risen to a level not seen since the 70s and 80s, when the ‘Enemy’ was White, and Irish. The Terrosim act led to many Asian people, in areas like the East End, Bradford etc, to be subjected to irrational suspicion, and heavy scrutiny by the authorities. Stop and search policies, similar to the Suss Laws, were brought in, which saw the police, in such areas, pulling over loads of innocent people, just going about their daily lives, surveillance beyond any privacy laws, and the kicking in of doors of people at 3am.

Interestingly, very little of these actions actually produced any real ‘terrorists’. Yet this did not stop the now inflamed media, always looking for increased sales, to pounce on any story that could even remotely be linked to ‘terrorist activity’. Remember the Nail Bomber? Some papers were suggesting it was the work of Islamic extremists, before they even had the facts; an incredibly irresponsibly and inciteful thing to do.

Naturally, many British people, living in such communities, were justifiably angered by the deliberate and unfounded demonisation of their culture, and spoke out against the racist, discriminatory policies being carried out in the name of ‘Freedom’. And one or two misguided young fools decided to act in an incredibly violent and destructive manner.

So, do the actions of a tormented few, speak for the millions of other peaceful, law-abiding people? Do the actions of people like the Nail Bomber, speak for all White people?

Some of you weak-minded fools need to go away, and try to learn some truth, before spouting your narrow-minded garbage. And then, you may actually **** realise, that you have been sucked into the Game; brainwashed by those who seek to control you, for their own selfish gain.

Islam is not your enemy. Fear, Ignorance and Hate, are.

Such pressure on sections of society, have enraged those already militant, to carry out acts of attrocity against ordinary citizens.

I apologise for the long post. I’m just sick and tired of the stupid bollocks spouted on here, so often.

RudeBoy your slant on reality is unfortunately all too common. Islam is a threat, and saying so isnt hateful, or ignorant, but yes I do fear for the future.

Enfht; your ignorance and delusion are all too common. I pity you.

My ‘slant’ on reality is based on reality. Not what I read in the jingoistic scaremongering press. I look at what is really happening around me, and try to get an understanding of that. Unlike some people on here, who don’t dare step out of their own safe little bubble, lest they are corrupted by evil…

Weak minded fools….

Go on, believe what you’re told; do what you’re ordered to. Don’t, whatever you do, think for yourself, though.

Bimbler – only liberal from an american view point. I was wrong to say it was the house rag of the neocons tho – OK.

Islam, in itself, is no more a threat to Western, or even Global, Civilisation, than is Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism etc.

I understand that Islam clearly states it has three main goals. To destroy, convert or subjegate non believers. Its adherents openly preach hate and the most heinous of there actions appear to find support from within their chosen book as well as within communities.
I think is is quite reasonable and rational that people mistrust its followers in spite of you telling us that lots of them are really quite nice.

Islam is no threat. extemism is. Try to differenciate the two.

Rudeboy is correct. The treatent of Islam is a moral panic

I’m not sure I agree with all of that RudeBoy (though in general you’re right), but given how unusually coherent and well argued it was (has somebody stolen RudeBoy’s login?), and in the hope GG might eventually get it, I’ll try the following:

When the government banned racist bigots from entering the country to speak their views,
I remained silent;
I was not a racist bigot.

When they stopped people who’s views they didn’t agree with from speaking in public,
I remained silent;
I didn’t want to talk in public.

When they prevented members of other political parties from expressing themselves,
I remained silent;
I was not a member of a political party.

When the Islamic community were seen as a threat and no longer allowed a voice,
I remained silent;
I was not a Muslim.

When they stopped me from expressing my views on internet forums,
there was no one left to speak out.

My ‘slant’ on reality is based on reality. Not what I read in the jingoistic scaremongering press. I look at what is really happening around me, and try to get an understanding of that. Unlike some people on here, who don’t dare step out of their own safe little bubble, lest they are corrupted by evil…

Are you now saying that because we are not victims of crimes perpetrated in the name of Islam ourselves that we should not form opinions based on the information around us as to the damage that it causes?

well thats some frickin “reality” you live in RudeBoy. You aint got a monopoly on living in London you know. You’re so blinkered you accuse others of ignorance which in itself is highly questionable.

I understand that Islam clearly states it has three main goals. To destroy, convert or subjegate non believers

Jeesus; I find it bewildering, I really do. How people can be so ignorant, so misinformed, in an age where knowledge and information can be gained more readily than ever before.

Ok; carry on living in Fear, then, if you feel happier. Carry on beliving that all Muslims are plotting to kill you, and your family, then.

And check your milk, in case someone’s poisoned it….

Enfht; what’s London got to do with it? Or can you find nowt else to try and use in your argument against me?

I keep me eyes, ears and mind open, mate. something you might want to try, one day.

The main tenants of Islam can be summarized in the words of the Muslin prayer, “There is no God but God, and Mohammed is his prophet.” Islam recognizes many of the Jewish prophets such as Abraham and Moses, as well as Jesus Christ, as Islamic prophets. Islam contends that Judaism and Christianity have corrupted and misinterpreted the word of God, and that the true word of God is put down in the Quran, the holy book of Islam. Islamic tradition calls for the spread of Islam throughout the world, though it also—perhaps paradoxically—respects Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians (a monotheistic faith extant in Persia) as fellow believers in God.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/17857/day_of_decision_the_battle_of_yarmuk.html

Straightforwardness, simplicity, compassion are all part of the fundamental tenants of Islam, which they call the five pillars. I’ll list them with explanatory comments by an American Muslim convert, Robert Frager, and take a more in depth look at them later:

The pillars are:

Bearing witness to the presence of the Ultimate (Frager: In a room lit by several lamps there is only one, indivisible light. How similar to Unitarianism: One source, not multiple sources).

Daily Prayer, which begin by putting ones hands up to one’s ears, palms forward. (Frager: In raising our hands, we try to put the world and all our worldly concerns behind us. If we open our hearts, we can feel ourselves in the presence of God, with nothing between us and God. [How like our Unitarian faith, relying on personal experience as the test for truth!])

Fasting, which is undertaken from dawn until sunset each day during a month long period each year, called Ramadan; which begins today. (Frager: This is a demanding practice, designed to help us to become more aware of the conflicting forces of our lower and higher natures. And to know what the poor suffer.)

Charity to those in need. (Frager: At the end of Ramadan, every Muslim household gives one fortieth of its accumulated wealth to the poor. We are only the custodians of whatever has come to us.)

Pilgrimage to the shrine of the Ka’bah in Mecca. (Frager: The pilgrimage is a metaphor for the journey of life. The pilgrimage and the journey both lead to God’s house.)

These pillars form the foundation for a vast, culture-adaptive, world-wide religious movement.

http://www.firstuualton.org/Sermon_files/anotherwaytosavethelight.htm

also
http://wordwarrior915.wordpress.com/2008/08/04/islam-basic-tenants-of-belief/

The time to choose is near, which side will you be on? There will be no chance to be neutral.

That can’t be right, TJ; I can’t see anything about destroying all infidels, there. Must be wrong… 🙄

The time to choose is near, which side will you be on? There will be no chance to be neutral.

When, the FA Cup final? Liverpool aren’t in it, having been knocked out by Everton, in the infamous ‘Tic Tac Game’. So, I think I could well be neutral, actually.

are you serious, your whole argument is based upon your “experiences” of what you see around you, I too live in London and “see” things very differently. You really need to chill out a bit and debate rationally instead of getting upset.

I understand that Islam clearly states it has three main goals. To destroy, convert or subjegate non believers

Jeesus; I find it bewildering, I really do. How people can be so ignorant, so misinformed, in an age where knowledge and information can be gained more readily than ever before.

Ok; carry on living in Fear, then, if you feel happier. Carry on beliving that all Muslims are plotting to kill you, and your family, then.

And check your milk, in case someone’s poisoned it….

My understanding is incorrect then? I note you ridicule but dont answer.
Do you deny these 3 tenets?

LOL! A paranoid fool, telling me to ‘chill out’!!

Brilliant. Got any more?? 😆

Surfer; I’d want Carer’s Allowance, to be bothered to try and splain things to you. Here’s a radical idea; why not try to find out for yourself???? 😉

yeah, chill out a bit, you’re getting defensive and keep accusing others of ignorance because they dont agree with you.

I note you still dont answer Rudeboy?

Most people will see your rants for what they are, uninformed and biased.

you’re getting defensive and keep accusing others of ignorance because they dont agree with you.

Or, more correctly, accusing others of ignorance, when in fact they actually are!

Careful; those bearded blokes across the road are looking at you funny…