animal lovers and eating meat

All living beings will cling on to life

not wanting to die is entirely different to a cognitive understanding of death.

As a veggie of some 28 years I do love good veggie/omnivore set to.
Cougar, I was with you right up to the "I wear leather" bit.
If you buy and wear leather then you too are responsible for the farming of animals, after all leather is just another part of the "product".
The best argument I have heard on this one went:
"I don't eat meat because it's cruel to kill animals"
"But you are wearing leather"
"Yes but it's just a by product"
"So using a by product like leather is ok"
"Yes"
"You'll be delighted to know that you can now eat mink as the meat is justa by product of the fur trade"

Needless to say this did not go down well but it was entertaining.

Choosing to eat meat is a personal thing – but if you do it on moral grounds, at least be consistent.

If you are vegetarian will you eat road kill meat? i.e. the rabbit – it did not suffer nor was it farmed. If not what is your reason for not eating it?

I wouldn't, because it's made of meat. I'm not veggie for ethical reasons, I'm veggie because I don't like the idea of eating dead animals, it nauseates me.

The meat in the supermarket is not stolen. Simple.

But by your own argument, the murder of an animal is something you can feel guilty about, just like a theft.

What is your principle in this? Where is your guide?

Why do I need a guide? My guide here is rational thought; I don't need an external influence to provide a moral compass, I'm quite capable of making those decisions for myself. Philosophical enough for you? (-:

If you buy and wear leather then you too are responsible for the farming of animals … Choosing to eat meat is a personal thing – but if you do it on moral grounds, at least be consistent.

I'm very consistent; you're making incorrect assumptions. I don't eat meat because it revolts me, I'd have difficulties in handling a dead animal's innards and so to go from that to putting it in my mouth (perhaps after some nice man has sanitised it for me first) is at best hypocritical.

Assuming they were of nutritional value, I might as well argue as to why I don't eat turds. It wouldn't be due to the animal cruelty involved in extracting the logs, it'd be because they're -turds- for god's sake. I don't eat meat because it's meat, it's dead flesh. It's disgusting and there's no reason for me to do it as there's plenty of alternatives that don't involve blood and guts, so why should I?

I'm aware that I'm an atypical vegetarian in my reasoning, and I deliberately didn't explain this until prompted just to see what assumptions people made. (-:

One of the nice things about it is, I think it gives me a fairly objective view compared to a lot of people. For instance, I've been in restaurants where colleagues have said to me "I'm going to order the steak… is that alright?!" Well, sure, so long as you don't expect me to chow down on your dinner, it makes absolutely no odds to me whatsoever what you want to put in your body.

I'm quite happy arguing pro / anti veggie / carnivore, because it attracts some really loopy fundementalists at both ends of the scale and they're always good fun.

roger as a veggie you may wish to look at the deaths of calfs [esp males whoa re usually shot at birth]in the milk indusry required to allow you to consume your cruelty free milk,butter and cheese.

"eating animals is what made enabled us to grow big brains"
Row 5, Column 3

Meat is food, Eat it.

Animals are nice, love them.

Animals are b*stards, kill them. 8)

Simples

Cougar – Member

I wouldn't, because it's made of meat. I'm not veggie for ethical reasons, I'm veggie because I don't like the idea of eating dead animals, it nauseates me.

Sounds rather extreme to me because your tone is verging on hating on all things animal related.

But by your own argument, the murder of an animal is something you can feel guilty about, just like a theft.

I think you have just confused yourself there. Murderer kills and a theft steals. There is a huge different there. Former terminate life while the latter not in the context of the bike but both are wrong in their actions.

Why do I need a guide? My guide here is rational thought; I don't need an external influence to provide a moral compass, I'm quite capable of making those decisions for myself. Philosophical enough for you? (-:

Rational thought involves taking into consideration of all the possibilities/assumptions/probabilities into context without filtering out information in order to produce accurate conclusion.

If I understand your explanation correctly you filtered out/denied all or some of the external influences which in effect failed to take into account all possibilities. What you are doing is actually rather irrational since you have denied/ignored some of the information.

Philosophical? 😆 You have just demonstrated the irrationality in such issue.

Although you have classified yourself as a veggie I am sure you have done some proxy killing of animals, unless of course you decided to live in another planet. Even vegan might not be able to avoid killing animals …

Rational? I say extreme.

😯

thomthumb – Member

not wanting to die is entirely different to a cognitive understanding of death.

The only one that cannot understanding death perhaps is vegetable.

Try observe and observe hard.

😯

my dad got called a racist in kfc today by a member of staff because he refused to eat what he had just bought when he realised it was halal slaughtered and demanded a refund… 😳

Not much to do with the thread but who cares..

Chewk any chance you can answer the point myself and others have raiseda number of times re your ludicrous claim that the murder of animals and your purchase of them are somehow unrelated as your behaviour does not influence or affect them? If this is true , as you assert, it would mean that if everyone turned veggie the meat industry would continue unaffected. Does this actualy seem even remotely likely?
You are either a pi55 poor troll or a pi55 poor thinker.
Cougar dont bite on

Sounds rather extreme to me because your tone is verging on hating on all things animal related

yes the definition of hating all animals is the refusal to eat them you are an absolute genius chewk. Cougar clearly hates children as well as we can tell by their refusal to eat them as well.
Ignore the dimwitted troll.

The only one that cannot understanding death perhaps is vegetable.

Try observe and observe hard.
Try English. Try much harder.
Taka is KFC where all ethical chicken eaters go to feast? FFS it is served in a bucket how well does he think it was treated when it was alive?

Yeh he knows how it was treated as he works on farms for most of his working career he was mainly p1ssed off because he doesn't want to be served meat that has been slaughtered that way..

oh right I see treat it badly during its life but kill it humanely yes I see the sense in that now. 🙄
PS I fail to see how halal killing of a chicken by slitting the throat/ arteries is worse than an abbatoir where they cut the head off whilst the chicken hangs upside down by its legs using a machine.

because he's a racist

Jesus H.R.H Christ on a child's tiny tricycle. This shit's got too surreal even for me.

Taka; wtf is your dad complai

ning about halal meat in KFC for? I would have thought that'd be the least of his worries. 😯

The only one that cannot understanding death perhaps is vegetable.

Try observe and observe hard.

Sweet mother of children. That's adhesively Sutcliffe.

adhesively Sutcliffe.

Glue Peter.

*collapses into giggles*

back to that grid thing, where does it say:

'i have no moral difficulties eating meat – i'm happy with the way the animal lived and died, and now i'm happy eating it'

?

Sounds rather extreme to me because your tone is verging on hating on all things animal related.

Yes, you've got me there, I don't eat meat because secretly I hate animals.

Seriously, are you trolling or just dense?

I think you have just confused yourself there. Murderer kills and a theft steals. There is a huge different there. Former terminate life while the latter not in the context of the bike but both are wrong in their actions.

Both are wrong in their actions. Ok. So. Why is it not ok for you to buy a stolen bike (which is wrong, as you say) but is ok to eat an animal that's been killed? In both cases, you've not asked for the crime to be committed, in both cases the supply is there whether you buy the bike / meat or not. This is your argument in its entirity. Look.

Consider these questions as they are about your intention.

1) Did you demand the bike to be stolen for your use?

2) Did the thief intentionally steal the bike for your use? i.e. they know you like expensive bikes so stole the bike awaiting your patronage.

3) Did you request the bike to be stolen for other to buy?

4) Did you tip off the thief or someone who you know would steal or buy it?

5) Did you steal the bike yourself for sale?

… so, if you can answer 'no' to all five of these, why is it wrong to buy a stolen bike?

If I understand your explanation correctly you filtered out/denied all or some of the external influences which in effect failed to take into account all possibilities. What you are doing is actually rather irrational since you have denied/ignored some of the information.

… such as? Give me an example.

Although you have classified yourself as a veggie I am sure you have done some proxy killing of animals

I class myself as vegetarian because I don't eat meat. It's really quite a simple concept. It's only for ease of explaining to others that I feel any need for classifications and labels at all.

As for proxy killings, I'm assuming you mean like wearing leather, in which case yes. But then, I never claimed otherwise. Seems you're still labouring under the idea that I'm operating under some broken moral code which says I can't eat rabbits because they're cute or something.

Incidentally, go look up "extreme" in the dictionary. You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means. Compare these two vegetarians:

1) "sure, eat meat, it's your decision what you eat"

2) "meat? How dare you! Meat is murder, OMG, I can't believe you're going to eat steak, don't you know what they do to cows?"

roger as a veggie you may wish to look at the deaths of calfs [esp males whoa re usually shot at birth]in the milk indusry required to allow you to consume your cruelty free milk,butter and cheese.

Harsh Junkyard, harsh.

🙂

FFS it is served in a bucket how well does he think it was treated when it was alive?

Tea/keyboard

No, I mustn't do it…I must not get involved and express my views on chewk's trolling/stupidity.

jon
(veggie of 27 years, 7 months)

P.s. Loving that Omnivore bingo. I'll print me a copy of that and keep it in my wallet to check off as and when I come across each "argument".

except that some of the bingo-sheet squares make a valid point.

a person may not eat meat, but they may still consume animals (leather, milk, cheese etc), they share some of the responsibility for the life/death of the animal.

fish are animals, they really are, i checked. Chickens too…

etc.

I haven't read all that.

We had veal last night. It was delicious.

Just scanned through this thread and wondered if anyone has explained to Chewkw how a supermarket stock replenishment system works? Or how a butcher determines what meat/cuts to stock?

Just scanned through this thread and wondered if anyone has explained to Chewkw how a supermarket stock replenishment system works? Or how a butcher determines what meat/cuts to stock?

Not sure he'd understand

except that some of the bingo-sheet squares make a valid point.

Only to the hard of thinking. That's kind of the point.