I consider myself to be an animal lover and at the same time i eat meat

i understand how the meat gets to my plate. On the one hand I only want to eat the best cuts of meat, on the other I think it is important that as much of the animal product as possible is used – somehow i overcome this slight conflict of interests.

Last night i was asked if i would be happy to eat halal meat (i would)

Is the argument against the process of producing halal or kosher meat, simply blown up by racists looking for a new angle of attack or is it cruelty to animals that should be banned in this country?

Racist!!!!

If you'll be my bodyguard
I can be your long lost pal
I can call you Betty
And Betty when you call me
You can call me Halal

Halal requires the animal to be bled to death does it not? Not the nicest way to die, but hey, pot and kettle spring to mind when it come to different methods of slaughtering animals

Halal is about giving respect and purity to the animal, I dont see a problem in that, if it was "we'll let him drip of blood because it looks frikkin awesome" then there lies a problem.

There is plenty of room for all the creatures of the world……..right next to the mashed potatoes and under a load of gravy 😀

No it's basically people with nothing else better to get on with than trying brainwash their ethics onto other like minded "sheep"

If it tastes nice – eat it – end of.

All meat passed fit for human consumption in the UK & EU must be bled to rid the carcass of toxins that form at the point of death.
The only real difference 'tween Halal & Kosher meats & regular meat is the fact it isn't stunned before the killing.

Catch it kill it Eat it
only now we only get to eat it .

Interestingly does it taste any different .

so the halal thing is to get rid of blood so cut the jugular arteries and death is supposed to be 2 seconds then the heart will stop pumping the red stuff out so there must be a fair amount of it left in the meat
as then gravity will take over .

Yep no worries eating it normally killed or Halal / Kosher
do like black pudding though
is that full of the death toxins

Consider these questions as they are about your intention.

1) Did you demand the animal to be slaughtered for your consumption?

2) Did the butcher intentionally slaughtered the animal for your consumption? i.e. they know you like expensive cuts so slaughtered the animal awaiting your patronage.

3) Did you request the animal to be slaughtered for other to consume?

4) Did you sell your animal to the butcher or someone who you know would slaughtered or consume it?

5) Did you slaughter the animal yourself for consumption?

If all your answers to the above are negative or no then you cannot be blamed.

But if you answer yes to one or more then you are to be (or partly) blamed.

The method of slaughtering is irrelevant since the end result will be the same. i.e. the animal is killed or slaughtered.

The "humane" (or halal – needs very sharp knife to slit throat with one swift draw of the knife & then drain blood clean) way of stunning the animal before slitting it's throat is merely a way to peace our concious that's all.

😐

p/s: I am not a vegetarian nor am I trying to advocate anyone to be vegetarian.

Hadge +1

Happy to eat animals that live reasonably contented lives and are killed quickly.

"merely a way to peace our concious that's all."
I think this is quite important

I'd be willing to bet I've killed more animals than pretty much anyone on this site – through gamekeeping, farming, deerstalking and over a decade in animal research.

I've been in slaughterhouses and seen normal, halal and kosher methods of slaughter, so will speak from a standpoint of personal experience.

In my opinion, in the modern day, in the UK, there is absolutely no justifiable excuse whatsoever for religious slaughter of animals!

The origins of both methods of slaughter are cultural, and tied in with well meaning methods of ensuring that only healthy meat entered the food chain, it was not possible to pass off sick or diseased animals, as they would be seen in their true state immediately prior to the kill – a perfectly reasonable cultural norm in pre-medieval Abyssinia, not so in 21st century Britain, where regulations ensure the veterinary inspection of live animals both ante and post mortem.

Like it or not, theres more than ample scientific research that shows that pain and suffering is greater in both intensity and duration in an animal that is subjected to exsanguination without stunning, quotes and links below.

Through many years of killing animals for professional reasons, it has always been at the forefront of my mind that respect and compassion for the live animal, and affording it the most humane death possible go hand in hand – even when having had to perform procedures in accordance with defined, regulated and inspected scientific protocols, the level of patience and professionalism that ensured the best welfare standards were upheld in 99.9% of cases was admirable.

The greatest abuses of animal welfare I have ever witnessed come not from hunting or vivisection, but from intensive factory farming

I would suggest that those who feel Halal slaughter is justified go to a slaugherhouse and actually watch it take place, or preferably take responsibility for the consequences of their choices and go and do it themselves;

Finally, I remain convinced that nobody should eat meat unless they have at least once in their lives killed and butchered it themselves and would happily do it again, as I believe that is the only true way of ensuring people understand the value of life and the grave responsibility that weighs on their shoulders every time they choose to eat a piece of meat

http://www.grandin.com/references/humane.slaughter.html
http://www.daff.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/1370331/welfare-sheep-slaughter.pdf

the design of the knife and the cutting technique are critical for preventing the animal from reacting to an incision of its throat. In kosher slaughter, a straight, razor-sharp knife that is twice the width of the throat is required, and the cut must be made in a single continuous motion. For halal (Muslim) slaughter, there is no knife-design requirement. Halal slaughter performed with short knives and multiple hacking cuts results in vigorous reactions of cattle being treated in this manner. Fortunately, many Muslim religious authorities accept preslaughter stunning. Muslims should be encouraged to stun the cattle or to use long, straight, razor-sharp knives that are similar to the knives used for kosher slaughter.

Investigators agree that throat-cutting without stunning does not induce instantaneous unconsciousness. In some cattle, consciousness is prolonged for over 60 seconds (Blackmore, 1984; Daly et al., 1988).

WE still slit the throats to kill the animals anyway but we give them an electric shock first, not a lot of difference really!

The way I see it unless everyone stops eating meat (which is not going to happen) its still going to be farmed and then get killed so we ought to eat it really otherwise the poor things are going to waste.

I'll buy free range eggs etc, but it doesnt bother me how its killed*, meat is meat. Having said that, I don't eat a lot of meat and I don't like meat that still looks like the animal (i.e. I will buy chicken breasts rather than a whole chicken!)

*as far as buying in supermarkets / butchers, I'm not endorsing horrible and/or torturous methods of killing

I do have to laugh at people who'll only eat meat that has no visual connection with the animal that it came from.

Flippinheckler, there patently is a big difference, by giving them an electric shock (or a bolt in the brain) they are instantaneously desensitised to the feeling of pain from then having their throat slit and bleeding to death – the animal otherwise feels pain through to the point where its brain tissues are starved of oxygen.

I think that a moral code is a very personal thing. I'd suggest perhaps worrying less about what everyone thinks and work out what you think.

Personally, I applaud those who kill their own food. Couldn't do it myself, but fair play. I do wonder about the people who get squeamish about it, but still eat it. If you're squicky about what meat is, why would you lie to yourself and still put it in your body? Never understood that. Be happy about what you're eating, or don't eat it. See also, thin miserable people on diets.

<– veggie for getting on for 20 years.

I would suggest that those who feel Halal slaughter is justified go to a slaugherhouse and actually watch it take place, or preferably take responsibility for the consequences of their choices and go and do it themselves;

Not justified at all. Modern method of stunning is far "humane" by comparison. I have seen halal slaughtering of water buffalo (approx 800kg – 900kg in size – big animal) in other country in a traditional way. The animal was visibly stress ("crying") as it knew it was going to be killed. It was a tame one as well and was lead into the woods where the slaughter man was waiting. They tied its legs (back together & front together) and then pulled it down so it lied on the ground. A small hole was dug in the ground between the throat. The slaughter man then came over to perform a prayer after that proceed to slit the throat of the buffalo.

Finally, I remain convinced that nobody should eat meat unless they have at least once in their lives killed and butchered it themselves and would happily do it again, as I believe that is the only true way of ensuring people understand the value of life and the grave responsibility that weighs on their shoulders every time they choose to eat a piece of meat

The burden is Not on those who consume meat as long as they answer No to all the 5 questions above.

The burden is on the person who has direct (yes to any of the question above) link to the slaughter of the animal for whatever reason. e.g. the slaughter men who slaughter, the butcher that demand (bulk buy to lower cost) more meat from slaughter house to attract more customer. Customer attracted by the low price increase meat consumption by buying more and demand increase … vicious cycle.

In a modern world you need not have to kill first before eating meat or understand the origin of meant. No need as meat is obtainable from butcher or supermarket.

However, the ignorance of the origin of meat is of no excuse as information is freely available.

Beast of burden is particularly no no for me as a sign of respect.

Is it wrong that this thread is making me hungry?

Zoolander – Member

Is it wrong that this thread is making me hungry?

No. After all you did not hunt or slit the animal's throat so why waste the meat if they came from the supermarket?

🙄

Sorry chewkw, I think you're well off the mark there.

If (for instance) you buy battery eggs, you are responsible for keeping that type of farming going, plain and simple. Everyone needs to take responsibility for where their animal produce comes from.

My wife wasn't happy when a squirrel trap arrived in the post; but it's in the garden now and I'm hoping it provides a small meal soon.

tree-magnet – Member

Sorry checkw, I think you're well off the mark there.

If you buy battery eggs, you are responsible for keeping that type of farming going, plain and simple. Everyone needs to take responsibility for where their animal produce comes from.

Yes, the welfare of the chickens are important but I buy them on the assumption that the person who breed them do it with concious and ethic. I did not demand them to be ill treated nor did I demand them to be slaughtered for my consumption.

I only buy free range eggs or chickens and even that I have to think twice of where or how the animal are kept. If they are not available I can go without but if there are available I will buy them knowing that they are there. i.e. the supermarket does not intentionally kill it for me.

😯

I have read, and re-read your posts chewkw, and as always…I haven't got a **** clue what you are on about.

sc-xc – Member

I have read, and re-read your posts chewkw, and as always…I haven't got a **** clue what you are on about.

Cryptic message. LOL!

It's about intentionally killing animal for consumption and those that want to eat meat yet struggle with their concious.

To test this you need to see your answers to the five questions above.

🙂

chewkw > I'm struggling to see where you're coming from also. It's ok to eat meat so long as the animal died to feed someone else?! Wut?

To test this you need to see your answers to the five questions above.

I haven't eaten any meat/fish/etc for years. Still don't really understand what your'e saying though.

Cougar – Member

chewkw > I'm struggling to see where you're coming from also. It's ok to eat meat so long as the animal died to feed someone else?! Wut?

If your answers to the five questions are no then I see no reason or wrong in meat consumption.

But if you answer yes to any of the five questions then you are partly/wholly be blamed for killing.

🙂

sc-xc – Member

I haven't eaten any meat/fish/etc for years. Still don't really understand what your'e saying though.

LOL! You just have to find the origin of the cryptic message.

Anyway, the notion of meat consumption does not apply to you if you are a vegetarian or vegan judging from your reply.

🙂

My wife wasn't happy when a squirrel trap arrived in the post; but it's in the garden now and I'm hoping it provides a small meal soon.

And it's gonna be a small meal. There's bugger-all meat on them bones, and from a description I read, pretty bland, too. Still, two or three in a curry…

CountZero – Member

And it's gonna be a small meal. There's bugger-all meat on them bones, and from a description I read, pretty bland, too. Still, two or three in a curry…

The farmers' market try to rip me off for selling them at £4.00 each …

Squirrel meat is okay but nothing to chew on as it is even smaller than rabbit (£3 each).

👿

If Lionel Richie opened a Muslim butchers what would it be called?

'Halal, is it meat your looking for?'

😆

Brilliant. I had thought about a reply that included criticising lions and that for inflicting unnecessary suffering on their victims, but that has just encapsulated the ridiculousness of this whole thread. Thank you.

'Halal, is it meat your looking for?'

Genius. Simply genius.

I find myself eating meat less frequently but am very choosy as to its origins. Supermarket meat is rubbish, even organic, hence my preference for game and other creatures.

Seem to remember a headline in a newspaper article about cooking squirrel. Makes sense, as does Canadian geese.

I enjoyed my dinner this evening – buffalo burger. 8)

the notion of meat consumption does not apply to you if you are a vegetarian

Just because I don't eat meat doesn't mean I don't ask for clarification on apparant nonsense. And I'm still no nearer.

Far as I can see this is a cross-examination at the level of "is it your fault that an animal died" but I don't get how that applies to the ethics of being carni/omnivorous. What are you saying, it's ok to eat meat so long as it wasn't your fault?

Wait, no, I get it.

It's a convenient way of absolving yourself from guilt. Here's a question six.

6) Was the animal killed for consumption, and did you intentionally buy meat killed intentionally for consumption?

Where you're going with this is, I didn't kill it, someone else did, oh, look, it's meat, what a happy coincidence, tralalala.

Your five questions are flawed. You are part of the chain. IT IS YOUR FAULT.

… Note to everyone else, eat what you like. I'll be under my bridge. (-:

Calm down Cougar!

I'm very calm. (-: