Almost everything that can be said about cars in one easy GIF

I cycled to work this morning and got a soaking for it, I could have got in the car and driven, I didn’t, but I’m odd like that.

Had it been half term the road outside the office would have been gridlocked, as it’s half term there were about 3 people on it. Cars aren’t the problem, people taking their kids places are.

the problem with those images is that it mixes typical fill capacities for the cars and bikes with maximum fill capacities for the public transport which isn’t a fair comparison. each of the buses would normally have the same number of people in as a car and the train would have twice as many in if it was like the ones I have to use. I’m extremely lucky in that for the last 8 years I’ve worked either within walking distance from or now at home so don’t really need to drive except for attending meetings or going out to play.

I’m fairly conveniently placed for the station too although it’s still a 30 minute walk/10 minute ride. But dear God, every time I take the train it’s an absolute trial, my run to Birmingham is always overcrowded with people frequently having to stand from the start to the finish of the journey. It’s no cheaper than driving, takes the same time, is less comfortable and less convenient for timings. I still do because the office is in the middle of Brum and the parking is a pain and I’m a hippy environmentalist but apart from going to major cities I really can’t justify it. And on longer journeys it becomes even less practical as even leaving long connection gaps isn’t guaranteed to work. It cost more and took longer to get to Glasgow than if I’d driven. I was able to work on the way up but that’s only because it was late and I had space, normally even that’s not a given.

Public transport is shit in this country and we end up in a Mexican standoff where people don’t use it because it’s shit and no-one invests in making it better because no-one uses it. personally I think it’s the responsibility of the government to blink 1st as a well being measure (and it’d lead to infrastructure investment and jobs done well) but that ain’t happening any time soon.

Cars aren’t the problem, people taking their kids places are.

Childrens commutes tend to be quite short. Suspect that your normal gridlock is the parents just going to work rather than “taking their kids places”
Quieter this week coz’ some parents take holidays from work to coincide with the half term? It’s just a crazy theory mind you.

perchypanther

Childrens commutes tend to be quite short. Suspect that your normal gridlock is the parents just going to work rather than “taking their kids places”
Quieter this week coz’ some parents take holidays from work to coincide with the half term? It’s just a crazy theory mind you.

Unless everyone always takes time off work every time their kids are off school then no. Commute times during school term time is effectively doubled here.

<not criticising you>

Would you have taken the new job if you didn’t have the option of the car?

</not criticising you>

The big issue is that our society has been planned around the motor car hegemony – the problem is that all the cult followers are up in arms whenever their cult is challenged.

It’ll be interesting to see what happens when the autonomous driving thing really gets going.

I mean proper autonomous driving, not the beta test Tesla seem to be running in the US…….

Unless everyone always takes time off work every time their kids are off school then no.

“some parents” does not equal “everyone always” 🙂

Commute times during school term time is effectively doubled here.

….or the “normal” commute time is reduced because “some” of the people are missing taking the volume of traffic below the critical mass which causes the gridlock?

perchypanther

“some parents” does not equal “everyone always”

Exactly. That’s the flaw in your crazy theory.

Jimjam, in trying to make the point that we have a car culture in the UK that Clarkson exemplifies, nicely, he’s an incredibly popular, pot bellied, ,im alright jack, **** the envirinment, chainsmoking, hippy cyclist hating, bigot who’s employment situation gets more headlines than your average war.

Being passionate about cars is arse backwards; they are slowly killing us, they ruin towns and cities as much as small villages with streams of traffic, 20000 car air pollution related deaths a year.
>60% of adults are obese, and messing with the atmosphere in ways we don’t b understand.

If travel by car wasn’t fetishised in all forms of media, maybe people might think that public transport or cycling was a viable alternative and make some changes in their own lives and in those they vote for

It would probably be a good start if the ASA started banning adverts which gave an inaccurate portrayal of car use – I’m fairly sure it is within their powers to ban pretty much every car advert. Next step government health warnings on cars.

kimbers – Member

Jimjam, in trying to make the point that we have a car culture in the UK that Clarkson exemplifies, nicely, he’s an incredibly popular, pot bellied, ,im alright kack, **** the envirinment, chainsmoking, hippy cyclist hating, bigot who’s employment situation gets more headlines than your average war.

If travel by car wasn’t fetishised in all forms of media, maybe people might think that public transport or cycling was a viable alternative and make some changes in their own lives and in those they vote for

I hate him, but when you spout crap like “every tubby **** drives around because Clarkson says there t’awesomz” you sound just as bad as him, albeit from the opposite side.

Furthermore a huge number of lets call them “serious” car people can’t stand him because he’s become a parody and offers little in the way of any value when it comes to actual cars. No doubt you’ll have read on many of the lengthy threads on here that most people who watch TG don’t watch it for the cars, they watch it for the comedy. So no, Clarkson is not emboldening fat people to drive cars and hate cyclists, he’s just a comedy troll. I was always surprised at the percentage of women in cars when I used to cycle to work, and how the vast majority of bicycle commuters were men.

Do these women aspire to be like Clarkson? Sitting in their 1.5 diesel Clio’s doing their make up and listening to Beyonce on full volume? Do all the people sitting in their dull euro-box commuter cars aspire to be like him? If Clarkson (or Vind Diesel or Paul Walker) is a totem for these car obsessed, obese retards you’d think the first thing they might do is buy a half way interesting or exciting car?

Most people sit in cars because the alternative is harder. It’s got nothing to do with fetishization or legitimization in the media, it’s convenience. The same way they all tootle around the front of the supermarket so they don’t have to walk an extra 100 yards or get rained on for 20 seconds.

ahwiles – Member

Don’t be so rational.

Whoooah there, voice of reason. It is my car we are speaking about. I have a right, dammit, that has been enshrined for three quarters of a centuary, that I can (And will) use my bling motor to go where I want, when I want, as my life is so damn busy I cannot afford the 30 seconds longer or wish to associate with anything other than an Executive Home in the catchment of The Best school I can find, but miles from my work down the lovely motorway we have.

Even comedy trolls encourage bigotry. I’m sure jezza has far more influence on people than all the “serious” car people put together.

Just have to look how profitable Top Gear was for the BBC, and how much they let him get away with.

aracer – Member

Even comedy trolls encourage bigotry. I’m sure jezza has far more influence on people than all the “serious” car people put together.

Just have to look how profitable Top Gear was for the BBC, and how much they let him get away with.

Well here we go. Off on a Clarkson tangent.

Here? I think we started going with this:

kimbers
Every tubby **** drives around coz Clarkson told em to and cars are awesomez !

We chose Milton Keynes

Interestingly, I was reading something the other day (possibly from Cartlon Reid?) citing MK as an example of where even the best in the UK is still getting it wrong. Although MK has good cycling infrastructure, the town was still laid out on the assumption of car use, resulting in distances that make cycling difficult. Good to hear it’s working for you, though.

pdw pretty sure Carlton did a write up of Stevenage, the town planner made it perfect for bikes…unfortunately he also made it pretty good for cars too so everyone drove/drives.

Cars are already incredibly convenient and the de facto choice, to induce change you have to make the other options better while making the car less convenient (for certain uses ie when 1 person is driving between 2 places that have good rail/bus networks, I’m not suggesting sticking stingers around rural areas)

I love these threads. Here’s a set of circumstances specific to me, therefore public transport is the only available option for everyone.

FTFY

It’s too dark and wet to cycle to work is a weak excuse, more than 10 miles each way is probably too far but anything less is easily doable, with some army surplus goretex and a big bowl of porridge b4 you leave whatever the weather is

What part of what I said was unclear? I work, hard. I don’t necessarily have time to have a nice big bowl of porridge at the end of a shift before I face whatever the weather is throwing at me. Yes, I do cycle but its not fun and to be honest it’s the last thing I want to do at the end of a shift. And yay DPM goretex, because thats safe in the dark on the road.

Just to reiterate: we live 7.5 miles from my work. There is NO viable public transport solution available.

How many of those people have chairs and phones and computers and broadband in their own homes?
Why do they need to go to an office?
How much easier would the commute be for people who physically need to travel to their workplace of all the desk jockeys were taken out of the equation?

Finally someone with something useful to say. Absolutely agree, the company costs would probably be fairly insignificant next to the savings they would make (running a cube farm is expensive).

The amount of blinkered ignorance on this thread is ridiculous, as I said people need to get off their high horses and start offering workable solutions rather than moaning about the symptoms.

from under my little troll bridge it seems that an Audi is the nations ultimate status symbol as they rumble over my home

and its absolutely because cars are idolised by many, the entire concept of ‘a halfway interesting or exciting car’ seems stupid unless you are doing the Paris Dakar or a trackday every other weekend

find a decent alternative to commuting by car and youll feel liberated, not inconvenienced

in that london i did 10 miles each way 5 days a week, it was hard, but just as quick as tube and quicker than the car, also kept me fit and I only had porridge for breakfast, used to scoff a kiwi and a banana b4 I left in the evenings

Audis are a status symbol because they’re expensive items, that’s all. Idolising them doens’t create the car culture. If everyone cycled people would be idolising Pinarello or similar instead.

kimbers

from under my little troll bridge it seems that an Audi is the nations ultimate status symbol as they rumble over my home

and its absolutely because cars are idolised by many,

Oh so I was daft to say that a lot of my cycling friends love cars, but you assert that cars are idolised by many? I disagree. I think the majority of people are addicted to the convenience, comfort and freedom of cars as opposed to any of the fun things about driving them (power/performance/handling etc).

the entire concept of ‘a halfway interesting or exciting car’ seems stupid unless you are doing the Paris Dakar or a trackday every other weekend

No it’s not, but that’s besides the point. I was making that comment to illustrate that people don’t slavishly follow what Clarkson says. He’s predominantly a motoring journalist (troll) and his “thing” is power and performance which really only a tiny few people bother with, and of that tiny few, a lot find him an irritating clown.

therefore public transport is the only available option for everyone.

Except that no one, literally no one, on this thread has argued that – no one wants to take your car away. It’s a ridiculous proposition and everyone knows it.

People are just arguing that a great many – possibly even the majority but I don’t know – journeys, principally in the urban/suburban areas in which most of us live and work, could be practically made using pedal power, public transport or on foot and that this would improve the urban environment significantly.

I was reading something the other day (possibly from Cartlon Reid?) citing MK as an example of where even the best in the UK is still getting it wrong. Although MK has good cycling infrastructure, the town was still laid out on the assumption of car use, resulting in distances that make cycling difficult.

thats definitely true, its ben odd moving from cycling mad london, where tiny overcrowded roads and excellent but very busy public transport means that lots of people choose to cycle inspite of awful cycling infrastructure

MK rarely has any sort of traffic jams so everyone drives, there’s loads of parking at all the retail outlets, they are reasonably spread out though, but the cycle network is so easy to use its a huge missed opportunity,

^Anecdote =/= fact.

Wildly different set of circumstances, what makes it so difficult for you people to get your heads around this?

and its absolutely because bike are idolised by many, the entire concept of ‘a halfway interesting or exciting bike’ seems stupid unless you are doing the Iditarod or a beach ride every other weekend

Back at you, how I laugh at people on their doubleweight fatbikes. See how silly it is, people are different, get your head around this and you might just start making inroads towards a solution for everyone rather than a set segment.

I love these threads. Here’s a set of circumstances specific to me, therefore public transport is the only available option for everyone.

said nobody ever.
You posted a list of generic reasons why you didn’t ride in, others who have similar generic circumstances said it wasn’t a problem for them, you then had a hissy fit and supplied specifics (some quite reasonable) but you still seem to be upset.

one wants to ban cars (well no one on here afaik)

Just to reiterate: we live 7.5 miles from my work. There is NO viable public transport solution available.

7.5 miles is 30 minutes cycling if you are reasonable fit. If you are quite fit it would be 20 minutes or less in a rural area. If there was a town to cross you might add 5 to 10 minutes to that if you choose to obey all the red lights.

fatbikes, while obviously stupid 😉 are fine in my book, I regularly see a guy commuting on one in clerkenwell- hes got calves like a bull! personally i wouldnt use one for that but hey ho

cars on the other hand are slowly killing you, the people around you and the entire planet*, they also seem to be making you everso uptight and defensive, your bloodpressures gonna suffer!

*well maybe

kimbers

cars on the other hand are slowly killing you, the people around you and the entire planet*,

How many people use fatbikes to commute to work or to make any meaningful contribution to society? Very few I’d imagine. And yet they are manufactured in the far east, doubtless using methods which are highly polluting, and then they are shipped all around the world to be ridden once or twice then languish in someones garage and eventually end up in a land fill. Deplorable.

I say ban all frivolous and non essential forms of transport. Let’s ban bacon too, it’s slowly killing us. While we’re at it lets ban cows on account of all the methane they produce which contributes to greenhouse gas, which is slowly killing us. We can all go vegan. While we’re at it, let’s stop reproducing. Since having children is the most polluting thing we can do. Lets all live as childless vegan hermits.

While we’re at it, let’s all kill ourselves. Since humans are clearly bad for the environment, lets just be sure to kill ourselves in a thoughtful and environmentally sound place, like a meadow or forest where our bodies can rot and fertilise the ground. If you’re going to hang yourself be sure to use a bio degradable rope, so as not harm the tree. I recommend manilla rope, sometimes referred to as hemp rope which is grown from the abaca plant, a relation of the banana plant.

Just when you thought the thread couldn’t come up with a worse argument.

Chamomile tea?

People are just arguing that a great many – possibly even the majority but I don’t know – journeys, principally in the urban/suburban areas in which most of us live and work, could be practically made using pedal power, public transport or on foot and that this would improve the urban environment significantly.

The data shows that something like 90% of journeys are of a length that could easily be done on foot, bike or local public transport.

Obviously this is massively variable depending on what the infrastructure looks like.
I’ve visited a supplier site that *only* has access via a motorway junction. Even if you lived a mile away, you’d need to drive. This sort of thing isn’t unusual in many areas. I doubt there are many that are actually that extreme though!)

Too many years of being car dependent means that the infrastructure to switch to alternatives is broken, and while the service industry is being driven by profits, rather than providing a service with profits being secondary, it won’t get fixed.

How many people use fatbikes to commute to work or to make any meaningful contribution to society?

super cars, xbox, etc, pick any of our “toys” and you could say broadly the same.

D0NK

super cars, xbox, etc, pick any of our “toys” and you could say broadly the same.

I knew I should have added a smiley face but none of them are sarcastic enough for my liking.

The data shows that something like 90% of journeys are of a length that could easily be done on foot, bike or local public transport.

Sifting through this thread, it seems to me that this is the core issue. Whether the actual proportion is as high as that I don’t know.

The challenge is to make unnecessary car journeys less attractive while making the alternative means of transport for those journeys more attractive by roughly the same degree.

What can a government do to encourage a behavioural shift?

Hard to see how economic stimulus – perhaps the most reliable method – could do this. Driving up the cost of short, unnecessary journeys would be hard to do without a similar effect on longer, more necessary ones and the negative outcome this would have on the economy would almost certainly weigh heavier than any positive one. Attempting to tackle it from other side – improving infrastructure and the public transport system – is a non-starter in the face of budget constraints and the weight of perceived public opinion.

The other approach the government could take is to attempt to induce change by legislation.

Here’s an idea – in built-up areas (say, where a 30mph or lower speed limit exists), vehicular traffic no longer has priority over human powered traffic and pedestrians at all. Driving a car in such an area is now more of a pain in the ass, as every time a pedestrian goes to step off the kerb, you have to stop. A pedestrian reaches a pelican crossing, presses the button and the traffic light immediately changes. Again you have to stop. How annoying. Still, you’re dry and warm and sitting down.

The speed limit (not advisory) is no longer 30mph in such areas, its now 20mph. You have to slow down, but then again so does everyone else. Again, you’re still dry and warm and sitting down.

The introduction of presumed liability legislation means that should you knock over a pedestrian or a cyclist, the presumption of blame rests with you. Something to think about as you weigh up whether to step on the accelerator a bit to get past that cyclist before the oncoming traffic reaches you.

Taking the car to the supermarket which is around 10 minutes’ walk away for a single (reuseable) bag’s worth of shopping is a bit more of a hassle now. Maybe you’ll walk instead. Or maybe you’ll plan your shopping a bit more and not have to go at all.

Walking around is a bit nicer. There are fewer cars about, and those that do drive past you on a dark, wet night are doing so slightly slower than before, so your legs get splashed less often. Crossing at a busy junction is much better, you hardly have to wait at all. And they’re all like that.

Reading some of the posts on here, and comments on some of the news sites about cycling and how to get more of it and I despair at the inability of humankind to adapt and change as circumstances change…

“I drive now because I always have done and it’s all I’ve ever known therefore I refuse point blank to even consider any other possible alternative, whatever the benefits, whatever the data, let alone actually change my behaviour. I will use anger and even violence to try and make these changes go away…”

I suppose Darwin was spot on – those who refuse to adapt to changing circumstances lose their fitness to survive in the new environment and die out. The high rate of obesity in the UK is one obvious source of this loss of fitness. Problem I guess is he’s talking generations and we’re trying to get people to change their driving habits right now…

tbh I feel really sorry for people who can’t adapt to change these days – there’s an awful lot of change about so it must be a hell of a struggle to cope…

People are just arguing that a great many – possibly even the majority but I don’t know – journeys, principally in the urban/suburban areas in which most of us live and work, could be practically made using pedal power, public transport or on foot and that this would improve the urban environment significantly.

I absolutely agree.

You posted a list of generic reasons why you didn’t ride in, others who have similar generic circumstances said it wasn’t a problem for them, you then had a hissy fit and supplied specifics (some quite reasonable) but you still seem to be upset.

I provided a set of specific but certainly not unique circumstances where quite a few posters arguments fell down. Rather than address the problem people then chose to jump on my back for it by using their own anecdotal evidence that was in no way comparable to my own. I’d hardly say it was a hissy fit either.

7.5 miles is 30 minutes cycling if you are reasonable fit. If you are quite fit it would be 20 minutes or less in a rural area. If there was a town to cross you might add 5 to 10 minutes to that if you choose to obey all the red lights.

And once again, I’m well aware of that but it doesn’t change the fact that at worst it ranges from completely miserable to a death sentence.

cars on the other hand are slowly killing you, the people around you and the entire planet*, they also seem to be making you everso uptight and defensive, your bloodpressures gonna suffer!

Or, in many cases, quickly killing you. I’m also not defending them, I agree that change should happen but in our present circumstances you can’t just expect it to happen overnight.

Reading some of the posts on here, and comments on some of the news sites about cycling and how to get more of it and I despair at the inability of humankind to adapt and change as circumstances change…

I despair at the inability of people to even try to acknowledge that tehre are people in different circumstances which make broad sweeping statements and wishful thinking completely irrelevant.

So what should we do instead?

Telecommute? Why not? It would be as expensive for a company to provide your personal workstation at your home address as it would be in your place of work. Set it up so all you need to do is enter your login details and away you go.
You then negate the need for offices, the land they sit on and the costs of running them. (£profit)
Employees need less time off to deal with doctors appointments, childcare emergencies, minor illness etc.
Less man hours are wasted travelling between sites or commuting.

Don’t care about out of town barns to a certain extent, as long as they are accessible by public transport then fair enough. That said I hate them for other reasons.

Car club schemes need to be more widespread and more convenient. And vans.

Public transport has to work outside of cities. Double track every line so you can run more trains. Run more direct services (we have a spur south that is solely used for shunting, to do the same journey you have to go north and change). Make it cheaper than car travel especially long distance. Get more freight on the lines.

Make sustainable traffic management schemes a mandatory element of planning permission. The solution to more cars isn’t more car parks, it’s better management and provision of public transport. If you can charge for carrier bags you can charge for car parks to subsidise the public transport.

People need to stop whinging about the problems and start thinking of the solutions.

People need to stop whinging about the problems and start thinking of the solutions.

‘swhat I said earlier.

solutions to the problem are relatively easy and well known, the political will to take space away from cars is a whole other problem.