[Closed] A new Tesla for £25k? Sounds good.

Got my order in at 3.30 am when the website opened.

One concern is the lack of hatchback for bike / surfboard transport. Not sure about roof racks on the glass roof.

Never drive more than 200 miles in a day, have a driveway etc like millions of others.

People seem to forget how much more pleasant our towns would be if there weren't thousands of noisy cars around belching crap into the atmosphere. Oh no but a car's got to be noisy or people are going to DIE. Damn cancel that order.

And other examples of small mindedness

If you're developing an apartment block in a narrow, dead-end street that's next to a railway station, bike path, car share service, bus route and tram line, should you be required to provide private car parking as well?
Yes, according to the state planning tribunal, which has overturned a council's approval for a "deep green" apartment development in Brunswick after a neighbouring developer objected.
The proposed $5 million project, called Nightingale, was designed with no car parking – and Moreland Council's approval for it was overturned last week because it lacked parking.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/green-building-with-no-car-parking-thrown-out-by-vcat-for-having-no-car-parking-20151022-gkfia5.html#ixzz44uVNPZ3N
Follow us: @theage on Twitter | theageAustralia on Facebook

People are moving from the traditional rules, do some people actually need to own a car? If somebody ordered 50 of these Teslas then set them up as shared ownership? Having gone for a year without a car due to being within walking distance of shops etc. over the year it was cheaper to hire for the times I needed something (Van for racing, small car for a day away etc.) than owning something that was a compromise.

I still wonder why they're not designed with a backup 3cyl diesel engine or something like the iOne thing BMW have designed. Was the Scope to just produce "the worlds, not quite, fully electric car with leather seats"?

Ok, you have to factor in a lifestyle change to remember to plug it in every night, or every other night. But you'd be in panic mode if you'd decided not to plug it in the night before last, then some emergency happened, and you jumped in it to find you had <25 miles before Armageddon turned the lights off.

There was a thread a while back on soft drinks that ended up with people utter disbelieving that people could carry around a reusable water bottle and fill from a public source. They came up with all sorts of reasons which were mostly crap.

some more info

http://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/04/the-post-model-3-reveal-reveals-what-we-know-about-the-new-tesla-four-days-out/

but i'll easily do 300 non stop, quite easy really and i've just done it again from UK to Germany and will do the same back from Luxembourg on Friday

But you'd be in panic mode if you'd decided not to plug it in the night before last, then some emergency happened, and you jumped in it to find you had <25 miles before Armageddon turned the lights off.

How does cost per mile compare to a petrol engine?

My understanding is that fuel running costs are a lot lower (charge up overnight using Economy7 at 4p/unit) but that dealership charges and tyre costs can be high.

I ran a hybrid for just under 12months a couple of years ago. We used it around Town when the congestion charge exemption was put in place for hybrids. It was a Prius, it was one of very few cars available in hybrid form back then, and before full Leccy cars came out.
TBH, the car was great. It was quiet in the back streets whilst running at less than 25mph because it was running on battery. Great at stops because the engine was off and pulling away was simplicity in itself. I enjoyed it, not a lot but it saved us paying the congestion charge and we felt humble and we're not from Islington.
I totally get Hybrids, I think they are the way forward, a combination of battery and petrol/diesel engine is simplicity itself.
I'm enjoying seeing all the new tech come out in Hybrids, glad all the SUV type vehicles are changing over to Hybrids, Toyota are really pushing Hybrids too even with the smallest of their vehicles, one day these Hybrids will become the norm and I applaud that loudly.

I just don't get why a luxury brand like Tesla haven't gone down the same route? It would be easy for them to adopt, plenty of viable options for them to pursue with many varieties of design too. Adopt that design segment and I think they couldn't make enough of them.

As is, they are alone in a world where the limits of the cars distance limit it's appeal. It's a limited audience market to fill, but they could adopt a Luxury Taxi Leccy powered promotion.. because thats all I think they'll become soon. Luxury Taxis, in the same way Merc EClass and BMW 7Series are.

bikebouy - Member

I just don't get why a luxury brand like Tesla haven't gone down the same route? (hybrid)

just guessing...

1) you can already buy hybrid cars - where's the room for Tesla to develop/sell unique vehicles?

2) it's only a matter of time before [i]any[/i] car (vehicle?) with a combustion engine is banned from cities like LA, Paris, London, etc.

2) it's only a matter of time before any car (vehicle?) with a combustion engine is banned from cities like LA, Paris, London, etc.

Yep, in my lifetime I expect to see only electric vehicles in cities.

Just throwing my thoughts out there; the range is poor - not terrible , just poor , but more laughable is the time to recharge.

For me to buy one it would need a range of around 300 miles (but higher is better), and a charge time that is measured in single digit minutes. I dont want to be stopping every 160 miles , and waiting 30 mins for a recharge (assuming there is an available charging point, and I dont have to queue for one)

The idea of having to wait 30 minutes while it recharges during a long journey is just unacceptable. The charging infrastructure at motorway services would have to be massive if everyone had one of these cars.

They'll improve though, and in maybe 10 years, these problems will be overcome.

footflaps - Member
2) it's only a matter of time before any car (vehicle?) with a combustion engine is banned from cities like LA, Paris, London, etc.
Yep, in my lifetime I expect to see only electric vehicles in cities

I agree, totally support that. I mentioned earlier in my other [s]moan[/s] post that cities should be EV only, especially London/Paris/Milan etc. Large cities where space and congestion is a proper issue.

The batteries are getting smaller and more energy dense faster than manufacturers can keep up. I've been knocking round the edge of the hybrid stuff for a few years and the batteries are now about half the size. Twice the capacity and capable of being charged with about 10 times the input current.

Give it another few years we'll be wondering what all the fuss is about.

I still (personally) think the whole hybrid/electric car concept thing has masses of holes in it, regarding emissions/logistics/safety as so on, but the legislation is there, the market is there, and it's a step in the right direction.

It might turn out to be the wrong direction in 10 years time, but as ever, we'll have to deal with that when we get there.

maybe 10 years, these problems will be overcome.

I'm not so sure, as it isn't like batteries are new tech. Also this car isn't actually going to be delivered for nearly another 2 years.

Much as I've always hated the idea of hybrids, if you want to go EV for around town with the occasional long trip away, then they look the best option for the foreseeable future.

For me to buy one it would need a range of around 300 miles (but higher is better), and a charge time that is measured in single digit minutes. I dont want to be stopping every 160 miles

it's interesting that many people seem to view this as a car that must be able to do [i]everything[/i], when they don't put that expectation on other cars - you don't see people complaining that you can't get bikes in the back of a Polo or that an M3 isn't cheap to run.

as linked above, the average UK driver only does about 152 miles a WEEK, let alone in one journey. I don't know many families with 2 cars but for those that do, I'd image an EV is ideal for the town/school/shopping runabout. And there's a huge market for that stuff, as 5 minutes outside a school at 9am will demonstrate.

More than enough for Tesla to get their teeth into while they ramp up production, I'd say. At the moment it seems that their sales numbers are going to be limited by their production capacity, not their market niche...

that dealership charges and tyre costs can be high.

julians - Member

The idea of having to wait 30 minutes while it recharges during a long journey is just unacceptable.

really?

not even considering the huge fuel savings?

after i've had a pee, a coffee and a pasty, i reckon i'd be happy waiting an additional 10minutes to save myself £50....

Given that you can charge it for less than a tenner it sort of puts the "negatives" in perspective.

after i've had a pee, a coffee and a pasty, i reckon i'd be happy waiting an additional 10minutes to save myself £50....

to be fair, after the coffee and the pasty, you're probably down to about £12 😉

after i've had a pee, a coffee and a pasty, i reckon i'd be happy waiting an additional 10minutes to save myself £50....

nah - i want to get to where I'm going as quick as possible, plus I dont need a pee, coffee and pasty every 160 miles.

Like I say get the range higher and the recharge time becomes less of an issue, or get the recharge time down and the range is less of an issue, but with the range very low (by internal combustion engine standards) and the recharge time very high , its just not what I would buy - for me any way.

I appreciate for a lot of people who only do local/short journeys that range/recharge time will not be an issue, but I want one car that can do all types of journey I might need to do (so thats short journeys of <40 miles, up to a trip to the alps at 1000 miles). So at present the tesla is no good for me.

Give it time though, and things will mature.

I do wonder whether 'hot swappable' batteries is the answer to the recharging problem. ie you dont recharge your battery, you just remove the empty battery and fit a fully charged one. Your old battery is then recharged at the charging stations leisure ready for the next electric car to come along. Should result in similar 'charging' time to filling with petrol.

Obviously not a goer now because of the size of the batteries, but in 10 years? maybe a possibility.

for me any way

^ the key point.

But stop bleating on like it wont work just becasue it wont work [i]for you[/i].

I do < 5,000 miles a year, can count on one hand the times I've driven > 200 miles in a day in the last 2 years, and I always stop every 1-1.5 hours for a break (10-20 mins) regardless. An awful lot more people are like me than like you (maybe not the <5,000 miles annually, but even for higher annual mileage most daily trips are short)

[i]You[/i] are a fringe case, [i]most[/i] people do't need a bigger range, and most people don't need to recharge/refuel so quickly (or frequently), and [i]everyone [/i]needs a world where cars aren't belching crap out into the air they breathe while burning up a finite fuel reserve.

we get it, right now your requirements aren't met, but for the other 80-90% they can be, so get out of the way and let it happen already 😀

more importantly, be happy for the rest of us, celebrate and emphasise the positives and get behind the idea in general instead of sulking that it's not quite right for you yet.

Swappable batteries, expandable batteries, modular range extenders that you can fit for your summer holidays but take out for the rest of the year and have more boot space, or order a car without then later decide to add it.

Or more sensibly, probably- your standard runaround model and if you want to go further you rent or get one from the community car pool.

But stop bleating on like it wont work just becasue it wont work for you.

You'll note I only just joined this discussion this afternoon, and I havent said anywhere that it wont work , in fact I said I think it will work, but thats its immature tech right now (give it 10 years), and I havent 'bleated' on about anything. I even proposed a 'concept' that might be used to speed up the recharging time.

I Just put foward a few reasons why 'I' wouldnt buy one at present, I thought a discussion forum was for discussions, you know, where people discuss things .

By all means you go ahead a get your deposit down for one, I'm not getting in your way. You have put your deposit down havent you? if not why not?

anyway - I can see my views are not required, so thats me out.

@julians

agreed, probably not fair to single you out, you were just the last poster commenting in that vein to quote from, the 'bleating' bit stems from the fact that your comments are so similar to many others from a small but vocal minority who don't actually represent what 'normal' usage is.

By all means you go ahead a get your deposit down for one, I'm not getting in your way. You have put your deposit down havent you? if not why not?

I would, but I'm poor, which is also why I haven't ever bought a new car. Plenty of other boring normal cars are > £20-30k and also well outside my budget.

anyway - I can see my views are not required.

not at all, it is a discussion after all, it's just that the discussion often seems to get stuck on the negative aspects for a small number of users, and again, not picking on you specifically, but in general the most vocal against EVs (and other things) are often the people at the fringes, and thus a disproportionate amount of negative comments appear in threads like this and give a false impression to a lot of people researching the topic.

so thats me out.

that's really not what I (or others I assume) want, I'll repeat my earlier invite, to help us celebrate what is happening, push the positives and open peoples eyes to how a lot of the misconceptions are actually just that and not relevant to most people.

So many complaints of 'its no good for me because I do 5000 mile nonstop journeys and I don't even stop for half an hour to sleep so I couldn't charge it'. Well, you know what I'm sure a Bugatti Veyron wouldn't be any good for you either as you would have to stop every 50 miles to fill the tank but no-one is forcing you to buy one of those either.

Electric vehicles are still in their infancy, Tesla are doing great, innovative things pushing forward development of the technology. Just the other year they released all their patents to anyone that wanted to download them.

Maybe in 10 years with enough development there will be a car that suits your needs to drive X hundred miles in one fell swoop but for now the Model 3 will suit a huge number of people who do only commute >200 miles a day and do have a drive way and ability to charge it at home. I'm sure in the UK alone that would cover millions of cars currently in use. As the technology and demand increase, production and development will increase allowing prices to inevitably drop hopefully making them more ubiquitous.

I for one welcome [s]our electronic overlords[/s] Tesla's announcement and would seriously consider one in a few years time when I need to replace one of our cars that is used for local commuting and domestic duties.

Give it another few years we'll be wondering what all the fuss is about.

The fuss will be having sufficient grid capacity. Road transport fuel accounts for about 39 million tonnes of oil equivalent. The entire UK annual generation of electricity is equivalent to about 29 million TOE.

(2014 stats from DUKES)

There are times when I want to drive a long way and get there pretty quickly without stopping and if I had an electric car it wouldn't be able to do it. In which case, I'll probably hire a IC engine one.

I like the idea of these cars, but am confused why the sudden surge in interest in this particular car. What is it that makes it so much more appealing than current offerings? Is it the range?

Many comments on here about the average car owner doing few enough miles to only have to charge it once a week etc. so why aren't those people rushing out to buy cars like the Nissan Leaf, Renault Zoe, BMW i3? Yes, the range is less in those as I understand it, but if they genuinely are doing so few miles, then that shouldn't be a problem as they can charge them every day or two at home....

And if they need to go on a longer journey, as has been suggested; they can just hire a car for that.
Is the charging time of the Tesla that much quicker than the opposition, or is the range that bit further that people feel it is a genuine equivalent...?
I'm just confused as to why the people who are happy to sign up and put money down for this car that doesn't exist yet, aren't in car dealers buying current offerings.....

Have you seen an i3 it gops. Its also only a 4 seater and has a tiny boot and will cost you as the base model with no extras £30k for 81-100 'real world' miles of range.

[img] [/img]

you don't see people complaining that you can't get bikes in the back of a Polo

Probably because you can perfectly well with the seats down, or put them on the roof (recently saw a whole family of 4 with their bikes on top of a Polo).

I've seen the odd Renault Zoe and they seem perfect for what most people claim Tesla's are for, yet a Zoe can be bought now, for much cheaper than a Tesla and come from a reputable car manufacturer with dealer base. Surely if EV was so great we'd see bigger take up?

The point above by ransos is really valid a move to EV in any significant numbers will require a big investment in generating capacity. Hinkley Point C anyone 😉

But stop bleating on like it wont work just becasue it wont work for you.

Everyone I know with a leaf / zoe or i3 (and there's a few of them) are really happy with them. The 2 guys I know with tesla model s's are really really happy with them.

Easy tiger - that's a lot of italics and pointed comments to someone that was making a very reasonable point, calmly

😳

[b]Sorry[/b], got a [i]bit[/i] carried [u]away[/u] didn't I...

come from a reputable car manufacturer with dealer base.

Hardly a reputable manufacturer when they just missed manufacturing their correct amount of SUVs due to supply issues and the Tesla forum has people saying that they couldn't supply parts for repairs.

Why would dealers get less they primarily exist to sell cars, EVs still need to be sold, warrantied, MOTed and require some servicing.

and require some servicing.

A lot less than petrol cars though. With regen / motor braking they wear through brakes less. Brushless motors pretty much last for ever, no fluids to change.

The industry is already concerned that their parts and service business will collapse, which is a big chunk of their profits and most of the dealer's profit.

Interesting that some people are utterly determined to rubbish the manufacturer and the whole concept. All I can say is give it a go. EV driving is addictive. I'm ashamed to say I've only biked to work once in the first month of ownership.

The point above by ransos is really valid a move to EV in any significant numbers will require a big investment in generating capacity.

dragon - Member
Hardly a reputable manufacturer when they just missed manufacturing their correct amount of SUVs due to supply issues and the Tesla forum has people saying that they couldn't supply parts for repairs

and tyre costs can be high.

Car's a bit heavy so that'll increase wear a bit. Though power delivery could reduce it. TBH the biggest influence is probably the outdated software that controls the human.

Yeah seems like that,

TBH the biggest influence is probably the outdated software that controls the human.

I was talking to l Tesla Model 3 and Renault Zoe owners a few months ago and it I remember correctly they both said it was free to charge up their cars. We were at a Source East charging point at their work car park. They both said it cost £10 fit the Source East card and then they just used the charging terminals and didn't pay anything else. Can this be correct? If so, who is paying for their electricity, govt subsidy?

Teslsta are paying for some, others are subsidiesed or PAYG
https://www.zap-map.com/charge-points/public-charging-point-networks/
But yes it's like giving away free crack, it's just to get you hooked 😉
It's promoting the tech to get people over the line to go for it - as many of the doubters say there are not enough chargers etc. no business is going to invest in a network without customers and no customer will go for it without the infrastructure so you use funding to get a start and get the user base up and go from there.

Part of this does rely on the UK getting round to building some proper electrical generation at some point soon 😉 though daytime charging etc. could be a great way to use solar resources etc. that are not available at night. In the end there will be costs associated with charging properly but it's not as if oil is free now is it.

It'll be a very long time before all the surplus night time energy is used up charging cars - and while the naysayers harp on about lack of chargers, most charging happens at home at night (yes, by people with off road parking).

and tyre costs can be high.

A lot of it has got to do with the fact that all the torque is available from standstill. People with the same model as me are complaining of only getting 5000 miles out of their first set of fronts. I'm being fairly careful, but grateful that my lease includes tyre replacement.

I'm an avid petrol head/mechanical engineer/part time restorer.
For me the IC engine is dead - when you strip and rebuild an engine the tolerances and combination of parts required to make an engine work is mind boggling, its just that we've become accustomed to it so its the norm. If things were the other way round and EV's came first would the IC engine stand a chance if it was developed now? I dont think so.

I would buy a Tesla/Leaf/Note car at the drop of a hat, its just that Im skint and am going for a million miles out of my Volvo!

Robert Llewellyn has a god Youtube channel on Tesla's/EV's thats good watching;
https://www.youtube.com/user/fullychargedshow/videos

it'll be a very long time before all the surplus night time energy is used up charging cars

You got any evidence for that? To me looking at the National Grid production against demand, it looks like the CCGT's are acting to ensure reasonable demand matching and that there isn't excess capacity at night.

Hardly a reputable manufacturer when they just missed manufacturing their correct amount of SUVs due to supply issues and the Tesla forum has people saying that they couldn't supply parts for repairs.

A friend of mine has a Nissan note and loves it, her husband has a bigger diesel car for long trips or holidays so the range has never been an issue.

She has found an extra benefit - good parking. In a lot of shopping centers, she can park right in front of the entrance and charge it for free while she shops.

I saw some charging stations at the Eurotunnel terminal a few months back so there must be some people doing some longer journeys and making it work?

it does mean that their suppliers need to up their game though if they want to stay in the picture.

No Tesla need to up their game in supply chain management and dealer networks, otherwise they'll get crushed by the big players as the Japs did to the US car industry previously.

Well, once the national grid is producing enough for all the cars in the UK to be electric, there are multiple options to allow a non-stop drive to the Alps, there's a council-supplied charging point outside every terraced house, there's a dealer on every street, Tesla have implemented kaizen throughout their organisation so spares can be delivered by drone within a hour of ordering, then, maybe just then, I'll buy one.

there are multiple options to allow a non-stop drive to the Alps,

deadlydarcy - Member

there are multiple options to allow a non-stop drive to the Alps

Couple of bridges?

There should be charging points on ferries too. And in every carriage on the eurotunnel trains. Just in case I arrive at the terminal without a half hour to spare.

EDIT: If planes can be refuelled in mid air, then maybe electric trucks with batteries the size of a shipping container that could charge "on the go". Might be a bit slower but at least I wouldn't have to stop. Once Tesla have sorted out their spares issues, the trucks could carry some of those too.

And in every carriage on the eurotunnel trains. Just in case I arrive at the terminal without a half hour to spare.

I saw some charging stations at the Eurotunnel terminal a few months back so there must be some people doing some longer journeys and making it work?

See it's not getting too hard is it

saw some charging stations at the Eurotunnel terminal a few months back so there must be some people doing some longer journeys and making it work?

Haven't got bloody time to wait at the terminal.

Technology will improve and the range will go up. We drove past an all electric AutoLib yesterday - blimey its a horrible looking car. At least Telsa have go the visuals right.

[img] [/img]

Haven't got bloody time to wait at the terminal.

No Tesla need to up their game in supply chain management and dealer networks, otherwise they'll get crushed by the big players as the Japs did to the US car industry previously.

What about sticking solar panels on the roof of em'?

Could help charging, could it not?

the roof of a car covers approx 3 square metres.

under ideal conditions, you'd get about 600 Watts out of that.

which sounds like loads, except the roof of a car is not angled appropriately, and 600W isn't much really, roughly 1 horsepower.

how far away are we from some kind of solar PV wrap that could cover the entire painted surface of the car?

that might get it up to, oh, 2KW or so

EDIT: If planes can be refuelled in mid air, then maybe electric trucks with batteries the size of a shipping container that could charge "on the go"

love it 😆

Or induction charging via the road surface 😉

Darcy gets the Fallout award for backwards innovation though (yes I realise you're taking the piss).

I always thought that the battery packs should be exchangeable 'at the roadside'

Like the old coaching routes used to exchange the horses at each stop rather than waiting for the ones they had to rest and be fed.

If the big batteries in teslas can already be charged to 80% in less than 30 minutes, it's likely that it'll be down to 10 minutes within the next 10 years, with higher voltage charging. It'd take longer than that to swap the battery over - and it would mean packaging it in a manageable pack, rather than spreading it across the whole floor pan to keep the weight low in the chassis.

Running costs.

Here are some figures from a gentleman I know in the SW who has run a number of EVs, charging them at night from Ecomony 7 or in the day using solar on his roof. Even if the diesel car running costs are a little high, I think the numbers still stack up very well.

It will vary from country to country. If you take the UK where diesel/petrol is £1.10 per litre or £5 per gallon and a driver does 14,000 miles per year at 35 miles per gallon his fuel costs are £2,000/yr. His annual service is £400 and his road tax is £250, the total is £2,650 for 14,000 miles = 19p/mile.

An EV that does 4 miles/kWh and charges up using Eco 7 at 5p/kWh uses 3,500 kWh for £175/yr. The annual service is £125 and there is no road tax. The EV's cost is 2.1p/mile. Our first EV, the Peugeot iOn that cost £10,000 did 5 miles/kWh.

This assumes similar depreciation, replacement of tyres etc.

For someone commuting into the congestion zone, the savings would be greater. Likewise, someone able to claim 45p/mile for business trips does even better.

The perk of charging your car at work appears not to have been targeted by HMRC, yet.

For company cars, I believe they are still zero rated for tax.

There is a subsidy of £4,500 on purchase of an EV (it was £5,000).

If you have solar PV, as you do, and keep your car at home then the running costs are even less.

Second hand prices will have a cushion in that the old car can then be used as a domestic battery worth about £5,000 (price will fall as batteries get cheaper).

One will also be able to sell electricity to the grid at peak tariffs (17p) in the evening and then recharge using Eco7 at 5p during the quiet hours of the night. In Indiana where they have been experimenting with this, an EV owner can make $1,000 per year.

And they are really good fun to drive!

diesel/petrol is £1.10 per litre or £5 per gallon and a driver does 14,000 miles per year at 35 miles per gallon his fuel costs are £2,000/yr. His annual service is £400 and his road tax is £250, the total is £2,650 for 14,000 miles = 19p/mile.

Those are some seriously massaged figures!

I love all this 'technology will improve and sort out all the problems' stuff. That's nothing more than blind faith. There is are a couple of issues, called physics and chemistry.

🙂

I just quickly checked my current running costs, and they come to just under 10p per mile. My car is old enough that depreciation is negligible.

A brand new Tesla, however, will depreciate. Something like 20p/mile seems ballpark.

So ignoring the "oooh, it's all new and shiny" argument for the moment, one of these would double my commuting costs ! I couldn't swallow that.

But then I'm not their target audience. Compared to a leased Audi it probably makes a lot more sense.

If planes can be refuelled in mid air, then maybe electric trucks with batteries the size of a shipping container that could charge "on the go".

They could do that to improve range on long journeys. 'Trains' of 10 cars all tucked in behind a lorry, half a car length behind the car in front. Can't see it being any more of a problem for other road users than the current trains of salesmen sticking their bonnets in each other's boots in the outside lane.

The only way I can see mass market electric cars working is if they all use the same battery cells. ie you drive to a 'petrol' station they slide out the battery from your car and put a fully charged one in.

Range anxiety is real: [url= http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/environment/2016/04/13/seven-drivers-a-week-run-out-of-fuel-in-manchester-motorway-roadworks ]Seven drivers a week run out of fuel in Manchester motorway roadworks[/url]

diesel/petrol is £1.10 per litre or £5 per gallon and a driver does 14,000 miles per year at 35 miles per gallon his fuel costs are £2,000/yr. His annual service is £400 and his road tax is £250, the total is £2,650 for 14,000 miles = 19p/mile.

not actually as off as you think.

take my Hyundai Tucson

if I do 10,000 miles a year which I still think is what's considered reasonable.
105p/l diesel
476.7p/gallon
it does at best 40mpg
so £1191.75 per year in fuel.
£235 in VED
and I do recall when a service cost was £300, most I've not got change from about £500, but lest call it £300

totals £1726.75 per year, or 17p per mile.

changing this about, if I had a super economy low emmission hybrid car, removing the VED and around 75mpg, I'd be looking at around 8p/mile, if it never got used battery only

😆 @ the pro EV types who are deliberately overlooking the insurmountable infrastructure & recharging issues.

"It's ok, someone will fix it for us".

lol'd also at recharging trucks on the roads(very amusing 🙂 ). But for anyone who would consider that a solution, as if our roads aren't already clagged to walking pace with heavy goods vehicles. Would be crazy.

Not to mention on-the-move recharging would require the driving skills of Lewis Hamilton.
Oh, me bad. They'll be an onboard app for that.

EVs really aren't the solution.
🙂

Did a quick calculation on this if I swapped it for my current 320d.

Both cost around the same so repayments, insurance, tyres, services would be similar but I would save around £200 month in fuel. thats not taking into account using the 3 phase in the yard to recharge it while at work. Depreciation isn't a concern for me as once I have finished with a car its not worth much anyway.

Older cars don't work out for me as company has a 5 years or younger rule on car allowance.

As for range I do about 120 miles a day so well inside the range and my longer trips are to clients offices who have a supercharger next door. Saying that the other half would still have her car if we needed to do any really long journeys. but thats once in a blue moon.

Might be worth looking into as thats a new bike a year.

EV's are part of the solution, and yes we have an e-up and it gets used for day to day driving, I still cycle to work most days.
Its not for everyone that's a fact and to be honest that's fine.
Wait for petrol to go up to £2 a litre and see how many people hate EV's.
Just wait for OPEC to slow production.
Our car has a range of around 90 miles which is more than enough for what it was designed to do.

EVs really aren't the solution.

Well, no. The 'problem' is congestion, air pollution, and an obesity epidemic fuelled by a lack of 'active' travel (too many door to door car journeys).

EVs solve the air pollution bit, and are probably a bit better on the noise pollution front but at 30mph I reckon the majority of noise heard to an outsider is from the tyres rather than the engine. But they do nothing for congestion, inactivity or injuries and deaths on the road (to drivers and non-drivers).

A big part of the solution would be high quality bike [url= http://road.cc/content/news/186152-cycle-infrastructure-responsible-85-cycling-increase ]infrastructure[/url]. But there will always be cars. If a car is on the road, I'd rather* it was an EV than a diesel one.

*As a member of society who has to the breathe the air polluted by cars, my own included.

What do you think "the solution" is? And what is "the problem" for that matter?

Best solution to the EV vs Internal Combustion question: drive a bit less.
Ride your bike more.
Then the older, repairable car that you've already got will be fine for a fair bit longer and the whole package has far less environmental impact overall.

I could pick up a ex-demonstrator Zoe with less than 500km on the clock for around 13 000e. The battery hire would cost about the same as petrol for the same distance.

I didn't say the figures were wrong, just massaged.

35mpg, £400 serivce and £250 VED are consistent with a big luxury SUV. The Peugot iON that he then purchases is in no way comparable to the big SUV, it's a small car. Show me the small diesel that does 35mpg and costs £400 for a service 🙂

Then the older, repairable car that you've already got will be fine for a fair bit longer and the whole package has far less environmental impact overall.

Not sure what 'more repairable' means, but you've ignored the problem of what to do when you actually need a new car - say it's been smashed up.

For there to be old cars, someone has to be buying new ones.

I'd love a Tesla, but I could not warrant spending 25K on a car, ever. I prefer an electric car from fun of driving, less faff, and being very cheap in paying for the energy into the car, no tax etc etc. Lovely little thing (Renault Zoe).

Current line up:

1. my bike with a Bafang BBS01 crank kit which means I can now bike to work every day and not feel worn out (yes I could do it without electrickery but I'm really not built for endurance)
2. Electric Renault zoe as a second car (I prefer to drive this myself over:
3. Hyundai 7 seater big lump 2.2 diesel. Now bike to work instead using line up item 1.