A Level results day

Wow, there’s some negative and/or bitter people out today.

What part do interviews play in the decision of who to offer to?

I’m not aware from Jnr and his friends that interviews are at all common these days – think the only ones who i know were interviewed were the ones looking at Oxbridge. He certainly wasn’t interviewed by his back up universities.

I remember being interviewed before being offered a place at Poly back in the day, though not the uni that was my first choice. Ended up at the Poly, left after a month, wrong course, wrong place, wrong time.

What are universities asking for, these days? Outside of Oxford/Cambridge, is it still 3 A levels? Or are they asking for 4 these days? Or is it 3 on the official offer, but you need to be doing 4 to actually get an offer?

My offer from Cambridge was AAA, I got AAAB but it didn’t count as the 4th was Geography and I was applying to read Engineering.

(That was before A* grades)

Does make me wonder why schools put kids up for more than 3 exams, then? Insurance policy, do an extra subject and that gives you an additional 25% chance of getting the three grades you need?

Doing 4 full A levels is/was rare.

A lot of kids did general studies which counts as an A-Level for UCAS points, but Uni might offer AAA excluding general studies, or 300 points from 3 A levels excluding general studies.

I only did 4 as I enjoyed Geography and was naturally good at it. I think I had a perfect score in the AS exams and dropped a few percent in the more subjective of the final exams. I’d already agreed with the teachers that I could skip homework if I was busy and they’d give me a reading list of future topics so I could read ahead when I wasn’t. So the actual stress of doing a 4th exam wasn’t there, I just had 6 hours more class time and 6 hours less free periods a week than anyone else.

The only other ones in my year group that did were a couple of kids that did further Maths which was done in lunch hours. But again that was entirely optional. And the 2 or 3 kids that did it were the ones getting 95-100% in the AS anyway so it was easy for them.

I don’t know of anyone that was asked to do 4 as an entry requirement.

How does that happen on a course with only 50 places per year?

Right so, the course my partner and one other lecturer teach within the English Division, accepts 50 students. The English division is everything from Teaching it to foreign students to creative writing, from obscure Medieval English translations, all the way to mainstream 20thC film and script writing

Remember offered and accepted are very different beasts

In a normal year, yes they are. Last year, not so much

I did 4 (5 if you count General Studies)

Chem/Phys/Maths, and then German. My German teacher told me a fourth in a different subject would be well received, and as a chemist, as the majority of big Chemical cos at the time were German HQ’ed then could open up opportunities in careers.

The Universities laughed at my answer of why I was doing four. I dropped German after the Univ application process but carried on and took the exam, and somehow achieved an E

As it turns out, detailed analysis of the motifs in Berltholt Brecht’s plays has been of no use to my chemistry career.

IME If you do further maths A level, it makes the “ordinary” A level Maths a trivial exercise in reality. the standard pure maths paper You were supposed to do 6 questions from 12 in 3 hrs I managed all twelve in an hour and a half (I couldn’t say the same about the further maths pure paper 🙂 ). So it doesn’t really add that much work to say Maths, Further Maths, Physics & Chemistry (which is what I did along with the special papers in maths and further maths)

Being foreign, I don’t have a full understanding of how this works, but I see that universities ‘overbook’ in the manner of airlines, to the tune of 6-7 times available places for Russell group for some subjects. Are offers binding on the institution if made, and if so, what happens when they receive more acceptances than expected?
I see there’s incentives being offered in medicine to defer/change schools, but what happens in other subjects?

My nephew managed 4 A* and is off to Cambridge to study Classics. I’ve tried to convince him (only semi-seriously before you lot have a go at me :p) that’s a waste of time and to do something more employer-relevant but it sounds like he wants to end up as a professor teaching the same useless stuff to the next generation a few hours a day, on way better pay and loads more holiday than me so I guess he’s smarter than me :p

Think you’re Classics at Cambridge may be more useless than my lad’s Music at Cambridge – like a game of inverse Top Trumps 🤣

Unis usually over offer, knowing a reasonably predictable percentage will not get the required grades. Word from Cambridge was that this year they were expecting most people to get predicted grades so made fewer offers to reflect that. I assumed other universities had also figured it out…

but it sounds like he wants to end up as a professor

As long as he knows the chances of this happening are pretty much nil, he’ll end up (in your words) doing something more employment relevant anyway.

what happens when they receive more acceptances than expected?

last year they were encouraged (by the govt) to accept them onto courses. This was explained away by saying things like “remote learning” and “online teaching” if as by the power of really really thinking it was all going to be OK, it would all, in the end, be OK.

It would be mildly interesting to see what unis are making of last year’s intake and what they make of the coming academic year’s intake, especially those studying sciences.

Being foreign, I don’t have a full understanding of how this works, but I see that universities ‘overbook’ in the manner of airlines, to the tune of 6-7 times available places for Russell group for some subjects.

A typical student might put in 6 applications, get 6 offers (unless it’s a super competitive course) then accept 1 and a reserve. So 6 or 7 offers to 1 place ratio would be about average if the unis want to end up anywhere near viable/full.

General Studies was knocked off being included in UCAS points about a decade ago. With inflated grades it begs the question of the purpose of grade offers and interviews. One of the NYC universities had a period of open entry and graduates were found to benefit pro rata whatever their starting point.
A close relly (comprehensive school) got a knock back from Oxford and in a London interview got ‘I’ve never heard of that school.’ Anyway, he left med school with a starred MRes and a tutor reference comment of ‘the brightest student I have ever taught.’ Couple of years on and he’s a clinical fellow. He’s worked hard and done well but it does make you question the system which claims to seek out the most able but tends to favour the most privileged.

It would be mildly interesting to see what unis are making of last year’s intake and what they make of the coming academic year’s intake, especially those studying sciences.

it would be difficult to distinguish any anomaly they see from the “exam” system v’s remote learning etc at uni.

I’m not aware from Jnr and his friends that interviews are at all common these days – think the only ones who i know were interviewed were the ones looking at Oxbridge. He certainly wasn’t interviewed by his back up universities.

Depends on subject. Very common for Art / Design etc type courses, where you’d bring a portfolio down and do an interview as part of the selection process.

now over to the Unis to balance out this pathetic scam over the coming years so as not to totally deflate the UKs education system in the eyes of the world.

Was the UK the only country in the world to have a pandemic? or just the only one to shut schools? So prey tell, what did all the more advanced education systems do to ensure that standards were maintained? Presumably the legacy education system you grew up in didn’t teach you that there isn’t a “UK education system”?

Well done everyone. Supporting youngsters through courses and results is tough on everyone in team child.
22nd of June I had the high of telling a pupil they had got the grade for medicine at Edinburgh and watched them get on their phone to accept the place, even was asked to check and double check the acceptance before it was sent.
Two hours later had the tell a kid that they had failed to get the grade they needed. In fact they’d fallen short by a whole grade.
I don’t know any teacher in the Scottish “system” that had a good night’s sleep from Easter to July. Contrary to what the politicians and exam boards say they massively messes the whole thing up. SQA even deleted documents that explained the acceptable evidence which was not what the public/parents were told.

My twins got the grades they needed. Still a bit traumatic for them (and us) given all the uncertainties around the assessments/results this year. Glad that we’re done with the exam treadmill for now.

IME If you do further maths A level, it makes the “ordinary” A level Maths a trivial exercise in reality. t

I finished both A level maths papers in under 20 mins each and just walked out after that. I could just read the Q and write out the answer without having to even think about it.

It would be mildly interesting to see what unis are making of last year’s intake and what they make of the coming academic year’s intake, especially those studying sciences.

I’m the admissions tutor of a science department in a RG university.
Teaching was very different last year and difficult to compare to a ‘normal’ year. Anecdotally, I heard various comments about both home and overseas first year students with gaps in their knowledge. My first hand experience of teaching them backs some of this up.
What has grade inflation done for our intake? We, like a good number of RG universities have more students than places. This poses problems, especially when you have to fit them into a teaching lab or clinical placement.

exams aren’t a true reflection of worth or effort.

Wasn’t that always the case?

I was bone idle at school and was continually dicking about and spent many hours either outside the Head’s office or in isolation. Despite that I cruised through most subjects with good grades and was in either of the top classes in all subjects bar French.

Others tried their hardest and studied hard, yet were sat in the lower classes along with the clever-enough-but-cba students.

The lad got what he wanted. Re interviews, I’m pretty sure he had two interviews for Edinburgh Uni, a group one which was fairly informal and a solo one a little later. I’m really pleased for him, his world has been turned upside down what with one thing and another but he’s come through it.

it does make you question the system which claims to seek out the most able but tends to favour the most privileged.

Oh, which country are you taking about here?

Sure as hell not the UK. ;-(

In the UK Cambridge International syllabuses allow for modular re-sits and include coursework. State schools are not allowed to teach CI but private schools are. State school students are therefore at a disadvantage.
A cursory look at the origins of students at elite universities would show a disproportionate number of privately educated students. You would have to conclude that either the rich are naturally brainier than the poor or that the parents paid out a fortune to give their kids a head start over their contemporaries. I doubt whether parents send their kids to Eton just so they can play the wall game.

A cursory look at the origins of students at elite universities would show a disproportionate number of privately educated students. You would have to conclude that either the rich are naturally brainier than the poor or that the parents paid out a fortune to give their kids a head start over their contemporaries. I doubt whether parents send their kids to Eton just so they can play the wall game.

In defence of Oxbridge and other top universities, they are pushing hard to bring in more state school pupils who have the ability, to the extent that the press has been reporting how this is upsetting the parents of kids at Eton. Heart bleeds etc.

Jnr wasn’t originally looking at Oxbridge, but his 6th form college was part of their “outreach” programme, he was one of 20 or so kids who went down to have a look at them, got support with the application and interview, 11 of them got offers, at least 5 he knows have got in.

Certainly the impression I got from talking to the Oxbridge people is that they want the best brains, and they’re trying to “talent spot” them wherever they can, rather than keep going back to the same private school routes.

A mates daughter at a Mansfield secondary school is on a similar Oxbridge programme.

The system is still skewed, but it’s working hard to get better. The (great) grandchildren of miners and carpenters now have the chances that traditionally came from wealth and privilege.

As always, in a normal year, private school parents have an invested (yes I meant that) interest in the kids doing well. Also tend to have the infrastructure and ability at home to support school work. Add in schools paying more and expecting more to/from staff. Alongside there being a bar set for progression.
Every child in our region was given an iPad before lockdown which is great. But if you are the in the lowest 5% financially odds are WiFi is not a priority and a place to study not likely.
I was listening to R4 this morning and the whole issue is simplified but not down to the haves and the have nots.

Science Po has a quota of boursiers, students who qualify for grants, remember those? And a quota from deprived areas. He’s in the most common demographic – teachers for parents. His flat mates have varied from poverty stricken to billionaires. The billionaires son was quite happy kipping on the floor of our house.

Uni is ace, a proper social mix, the only time a generation is nearly equal. Well done to all those who got the place they want.

We’ve one who did very well, as we knew already, in Nat5’s.

And one that the college appear to have forgotten to mark…

While student support is being lovely, there is a tutor who has some explaining to do when they return next week.

Wow, there’s some negative and/or bitter people out today.

Just compare the paper headlines of today, compared with yesterday…. Once you get past the “well done’s” yesterday’s results just show how insane our education system is. According to the I, Next years students – and years to come, who will be expected to take a full course and exams will have inflated grades so as not to put them at a disadvantage with students of the last two years.

 just show how insane our education system is

There are four different eduction systems, not one.

Agreed, this is a really difficult time for leaders in eduction. It shows the folly of exam and knowledge focussed testing systems.

Yep, MCD you’re right. However, ‘state school’ entrants’ numbers are also skewed by privately educated kids who then go on to eg Hills Road 6th form college. Also there is much variation between state schools and their students. Ultimately exam results reflect the distribution of wealth and in an unequal society it would be naive in the extreme to think we could have some sort of meritocracy. Inequalities still prevail once the kids graduate, I should think half the bar staff around here have a degree (but did not go to Winchester or Cheltenham).

I never claimed I was fair or right, merely that there are more opportunities now than 30 years ago for me.

According to the I, Next years students – and years to come, who will be expected to take a full course and exams will have inflated grades so as not to put them at a disadvantage with students of the last two years.

It’s a concern, but it’s newspaper speculation at this point. The exam boards yesterday were going to great lengths to stress that the last two years have been anomalies. Surely the sensible thing is to accept this, and go back to grading structures that reflect 2019 pre-pandemic levels.

Grades are pretty irrelevant once people have done the next level – whether that’s 6th form, uni, apprenticeships or work. Next tears cohorts will be judged against their peers to move on, not this years.

Surely the sensible thing is to accept this, and go back to grading structures that reflect 2019 pre-pandemic levels.

Within the education world yes this would work – but not within employment.

Grades are pretty irrelevant once people have done the next level

Completely agree – my career as a hole has not been based on grades, rather experience and qualifications. However that first job, the foot onto the career ladder, will generally always be qualifications & grades based. Next year’s A level students will also compete with this year’s (and last) for jobs at the end of their education, not just their own year.

Within the education world yes this would work – but not within employment.

I wouldn’t want to work for someone so stupid that they couldn’t figure it out, to be honest.

The system is still skewed, but it’s working hard slowly to get better. The (great) grandchildren of some miners and carpenters now have some of the chances that traditionally came from wealth and privilege.

FTFY!

A little thought to leave here…..

Why are we so convinced that the pre 2020 results are the correct ones? Granted, they accurately reflect the performance of the cohort in the exams but is that a true reflection of their ability?

The system this year was pretty thorough. Far from sticking your finger in the air and making up the result you needed evidence. Evidence from tests under exam conditions, submitted essays and assignments etc etc. 2 subject from every school were inspected by outside auditors and you had to submit your results before know which subjects these would be. Yes, there will have been some ambitious (some might say cynical) grading by teachers but from my experience most were trying to give fair honest appraisal of the ability of the kids in front of them.

Long term, as an employer, would you rather not know how that a candidate had performed in a less superficial way than a snap shot judgement from 2 or 3 hours of their academic life? In your workplace if you were assessed on nothing but a 3 hour window of time would you feel happy about that or would you rather your line manager took a broader view over your performance from the whole year?

Not saying what happened last year was anywhere near perfect (and lord knows the workload on the teachers was nuts) but I don’t think it was necessarily all downsides.

Why are we so convinced that the pre 2020 results are the correct ones? Granted, they accurately reflect the performance of the cohort in the exams but is that a true reflection of their ability?

The system this year was pretty thorough. Far from sticking your finger in the air and making up the result you needed evidence.

Very fair points