650B – dead already

I hate to break it to all of you saying road bikes are more popular than MTBs where I live and ” I never see 650b bikes when I’m out ” etc but the UK is one tiny portion of what is a huge global business and manufacturers will make what they can sell globally which means your experience may not be very representative of the overall picture .

Do you have any figures to back up your assertion that the UK market is “one tiny portion of a huge global business”. Have you not noticed that UK cycling is BIG at the moment, in all disciplines. It is probably (prove me wrong) the second most important market in the world.
Hardly tiny…

Why is there no great debate among motorists about the ever increasing trend to bigger wheels with ever lower profile tyres on cars?
Mostly driven by marketing and image – just like bikes.

Seems to me the OP needs to nip down to specsavers….

tomhoward:cheeky, what size rims do you suggest?

If 650B really isn’t selling they will cease to be made. What comes after that, who knows?

It’s so fast I didn’t know it was there – must have mistaken it for a 26″ bike with high rollers on

Maybe you thought it was a 29er? The front tyre is only 1/2″ short of that… :p

There were loads of them at QECP today too!

At least you can put 27.5″ forks on a 26″ bike – try putting tapered forks on a bike with a 1 1/8″ headtube….

I haven’t seen darkcyan around here for a long time.

That guy really knows his stuff, shame he never posts anymore.

theocb – you stumped me there!

Grahamh link says a lot,

People take a lot of pride in their bikes and do seek appreciation.
You spend a shit load of money on a bike you want people to tell you how awesomez it is.

There was someone on here just after orange brought out the 650b five who had just bought a new. 26″ and was quite pissed off , talking about would the bigger wheels fit his bike or maybe trading for the new one.

Now I am guessing he felt like he had gone from hero to zero overnight .
Yesterday he because of his bike was the envy of his cycling friends , today was the guy who dropped a wedge on a obsolete bike. Because Nothing physically had changed about his bike he still had a great bike, but now would have to listen all the bs about how much better the newer one was. Unless he believed the hype himself.

I am pretty shit as mountainbikers go so will never receive plaudits on my off-road prowess, so sadly only can hope for acclaim on how wide my bars are, short my stem is or how big my wheels are.

If only I could ride like matey boy who had no rear tyre, It would save me a fortune.

I think a lot of people have had the jam taken out of their donut by the switch and are pissed of about it.

@suburbanrueban, I came across a report that put the UK market a second to Germany in number of bikes sold. Then France , then Italy. The Netherlands spent more per average.
The market was worth about 2 billion euros per annum in Germany and 1.2 in the UK.

There was a stall selling about 6 mountain bikes by Lapierre, Nukeproof and Kona – they were all 650b. These, gentlemen are FACTS. (facts without a conclusion, I grant you, but facts all the same).

errrmmm, “FACT” that the manufacturers are trying to force us into something??

@suburbanrueban, I came across a report that put the UK market a second to Germany in number of bikes sold. Then France , then Italy. The Netherlands spent more per average.
The market was worth about 2 billion euros per annum in Germany and 1.2 in the UK.

That’s the European market not the global one .

no ones pointing a 650b sized gun at your head forcing you to buy a new bike

the only thing thats really been an issue for me was tyres (i got my old hubs built onto some new light bicycle rims so a second set of wheels for racing)

and if im honest my stockpile of tyres are at least 50% worn
so ive had to buy some new tyres and they grip better than my old ones
so its all gravy baby!

also once brant finishes testing his 650b smorgs and cunkys then even thats not such an issue

an considering 650b bikes have only been generally available for a couple of years there were loads at the QECP race today

Ok, so I am a huge fan of titanium because of its longevity. I don’t earn a bundle (physics teacher) and have recently splashed on a 26″ ti hardtail (hardtails – a whole nother thread there…) hoping my new handsome steed would carry me safely into the foreseeable future.

I am understandibly concerned that it will be more and more difficult to find new fox 1 1/8 forks for it as the years roll by, not to mention tyres etc.

Someone mentioned the european market and the UK market etc. Anyone who does any global touring would be mad not to be on a 26″. Why? Because the entire 3rd world is and will be for years to come, predominantly going round on 26″ bikes. And trust me, third worlders know how to make their shit work till its dead.

There will always be a 26″ market, it might become a bit more niche than it is now, but while there are 26″ bikes out there, theres money to be made by providing for them. The manouvre ability of a 26″ bike and the fact that it is unanimously (well… sort of ;p ) agreed as the most ‘fun’ and ‘responsive’ wheel size means that there will always be niche consumers and providers in the marketplace. Hell, you can still buy and produce vinyls quite easily. Not to mention black and white 35mm film roll. Don’t panic.

I am braced for the torrent of abuse for my sweeping generalisations. Come at me people.

Have you not noticed that UK cycling is BIG at the moment, in all disciplines. It is probably (prove me wrong) the second most important market in the world.

can you prove it is the 2nd most important market?!

without delving into sales figures that manufacturers won’t give you, it’s impossible to say, but believe me, the uk is significant, but not the second most important market in the world, by a long stretch.

in europe, germany rules the roost, and given that a lot of mainland europe shares similar ideals as to how bikes are specced, most european bikes are specced to suit them – something which uk brand managers have to struggle against.

spesh continue pushing 29″ because thats what sells in the US and giant is pushing 650b because 29″ doesn’t sell well in asia.

uk specific brands think about uk riders, the rest, frankly, don’t.

oh bollocks, just realised i contributed to a wheel size debate on the internet.

kill me now.

The thing is, the new range of 650b bikes offer longer slacker geometry, which means faster bikes.

Kona have a new Process with 26″ wheels that fits that description perfectly.

Somehow a large chunk of the bike industry didn’t realise that the wheel size debate was not about finding some ‘goldilocks’ wheel size but about (eventually) getting bikes with wheel sizes appropriate to the rider.

there’s nothing intrinsically wrong with say 26″ wheels if you are 5’2″ or less, but wholly inappropriate if you are six feet tall.

im so glad that 29ers gained acceptance…its been like waiting for the shoe manufacturer’s to offer trainers in size twelve

there’s nothing intrinsically wrong with say 26″ wheels if you are 5’2″ or less, but wholly inappropriate if you are six feet tall.

only 3 pages till that gem of BS came out. Best tell all the 6ft 26″ riders and 5ft 29″ riders they are on the wrong bikes.

Anyway I’m glad 3 pages in we have a definitive conclusion to the debate.

Dude, Absolute shit.. 29ers are for people who suck, or XC racers. 26ers are for experts who dont race, for pure fun and adrenaline rippin’.

I am 6’2, and have bought 3 bikes in 2014, all 26ers. A giant glory, a commencal meta SX, and a Commencal Meta Hardtail SX. Im a freerider, and so are all my buddies, and its so funny when we hear people taking about how fast they are on there new fucken 27.5 or 29. and then we whoop there ass on our 26ers. Waiting for 5 minutes at the bottom…

Its all about the rider. I have been riding my whole life, many different bikes every year, and I will not buy a 29er until im 60. I made a vow to the bike god.

can you prove it is the 2nd most important market?!

No, and I don’t need to. It’s Sunday evening and frankly, who gives a toss? The point is,it is not a tiny, insignificant market by any stretch of the imagination.
The US is number one by value, someone says Germany is number one in Europe,thus number two in the world, and we’re apparently number three, but growing; hence the added importance. Cycling is HOT here,but mainly road bikes.
I went for a three hour ride yesterday in the Surrey hills and saw less than half a dozen mountain bikes. In that time I did maybe 3-4 miles on road and saw probably 20-30 road bikes.

Someone wake me up when the bicycle industry comes up with some genuine innovation rather than the very expensive turd polishing we have at the moment.

As someone who goes through rear mechs more than he goes through brake pads, I want a solution to this problem first.

Until then I’m sticking to hub gears on my hardtails while my next full susser will be one of these.

http://www.zerodebikes.com/page/Bikes/

Or maybe one of these if they raise the pivot point by 3 or 4 inches and used dogbone linkage.

http://www.cavalerie-bikes.com/#!cadres/cjg9

Actually, I think I might just wait until someone make a lighter Brooklyn Machine Works with a gearbox or even just a singlespeed.

There’s a reason motorcycle manufacturers don’t stray too far from this set up. It can work for mountain bikes too if we can ever break our addiction to this stupid gear system that is completely inappropriate to our needs.

If, while they’re at it, they can see their way to looking into getting the most out of cast aluminium that would be great too. There are alternatives to the double triangle, it just takes a bit more work than increasing the wheel size by 0.03%. Making your top tube all swoopy is also not innovation, just more polishing a turd.

only 3 pages till that gem of BS came out. Best tell all the 6ft 26″ riders and 5ft 29″ riders they are on the wrong bikes

Well you should ride what you feel best on, I’m 6ft2″ & had 26ers for 15 years, it wasn’t until I tried a 29er 6 years ago that I realised how better I felt & how much more confident it made me on trails. So I’d not dismiss the size = size formula out of hand

Actually, I think I might just wait until someone make a lighter Brooklyn Machine Works with a gearbox or even just a singlespeed.

Have looked at Pinion bikes & 18bikes custom gearbox frame?

Ok, so I am a huge fan of titanium because of its longevity.

The material yes, having it stay in a frame shape might not quite last so long if you look at all the broken/cracked frame stories on here and other forums

Maybe you thought it was a 29er? The front tyre is only 1/2″ short of that… :p

One of the journos was writing before about being out on a Santa Cruz and this bloke rolled up & asked if it was the then-new Bronson, and started raving about it. Until the journo pointed out it was a Tallboy LT, at which point the bloke lost interest.

I am understandibly concerned that it will be more and more difficult to find new fox 1 1/8 forks for it as the years roll by, not to mention tyres etc.

This came up on one of the other threads – at least one of the big fork manufacturers anticipated having 1? steerer forks (or at least CSUs) available for some time to come.

also once brant finishes testing his 650b smorgs and cunkys then even thats not such an issue

Why will Brant be doing this?

I’m 6ft2″ & had 26ers for 15 years, it wasn’t until I tried a 29er 6 years ago that I realised how better I felt & how much more confident it made me on trails. So I’d not dismiss the size = size formula out of hand

also once brant finishes testing his 650b smorgs and cunkys then even thats not such an issue
Why will Brant be doing this?

Especially as he left OnOne/PlanetX

Mike Smith, will any of my new husbands buy me a 650b? 😀

Have looked at Pinion bikes & 18bikes custom gearbox frame?

The main thing I want is a 7″ high pivot point and dogbone linkage. I’m not sure if I would trust even the best custom frame maker to design and build it. I’m assuming BMW had to go through a few iterations before they got the design they wanted and even then it weighed about the same as a BMW car.

Maybe I’ll just do what this guy did and live with singlespeed until someone comes up with an aftermarket gearbox.

rockohardpack – Member

I will not buy a 29er until im 60. I made a vow to the bike god.

What’s going to happen to you when you’re 60?

I’d love to see the arse fall out of the MTB industry over 650b.
I’ve never, ever seen such a cynical, nasty, small minded, mean spirited, graceless marketing scam in my life.
I hope those who forced this pointless toss onto the market suffer financially for their decision.
But they won’t.
They’ll be too busy raking it in by selling the new road standard (whatever that might be) to another bunch of gullible fools.

Did you miss a smiley off this?

Stop taking things personally.
I didn’t say there weren’t any mountain bikers any more, I just said that people coming into the bike shop I was working in (which still has more floor space given over to MTBs) were, in the main, interested in road bikes, not mountain bikes.
There’s no associated shit about lycra in there, nor the fact that you need a road bike to keep up with others, just the facts as I saw them.

I’m not taking it personally, I’m just observing what is happening around me.
Most of the bike shops round here stock a high percentage of mtb’s compared to road bikes.
I guess that must have something to do with having such amazing off road riding round here.

There was one road only shop and its just closed down as he went bust.

I’d love to see the arse fall out of the MTB industry over 650b.
I’ve never, ever seen such a cynical, nasty, small minded, mean spirited, graceless marketing scam in my life.
I hope those who forced this pointless toss onto the market suffer financially for their decision.
But they won’t.
They’ll be too busy raking it in by selling the new road standard (whatever that might be) to another bunch of gullible fools.

Brant – member

Did you miss a smiley off this?

Nice one Brant 😆 😆

I’ve not read so much vitriol in a STW thread for some time.

I’ve not read so much vitriol in a STW thread for some time.

Ah well, #vainvagrant launches at 10am. That should eclipse this.

Hehehe!

These threads remind me of “Who needs a Full Suss anyway?” and “Why do we need disk breaks?” plus fat bikes and SS.

“Why do we need disk breaks?”

*brakes

“These threads remind me of “Who needs a Full Suss anyway?” and “Why do we need disk breaks?” plus fat bikes and SS”.

well – i have just gone 29″, ss, rigid (frame!) with lovely 29er chunky monkey up front – loving it – though my left elbow and right knee are starting to hurt.

Most of the bike shops round here stock a high percentage of mtb’s compared to road bikes.

Yep, as does the shop I was working in (probably 70/30 by volume of bikes), as I said. It’s not a road shop, far from it, but customers are walking in off the street and wanting to talk about road bikes, not MTBs.

I guess that must have something to do with having such amazing off road riding round here.

Yep, decent off road riding here too, but generally decent off road = decent road riding…

darkcyan – Member

“These threads remind me of “Who needs a Full Suss anyway?” and “Why do we need disk breaks?” plus fat bikes and SS”.
well – i have just gone 29″, ss, rigid (frame!) with lovely 29er chunky monkey up front – loving it – though my left elbow and right knee are starting to hurt.

Niche-tastic choice Darkcyan 🙂

I’ve got a 650b bike.

It rides (to use the Singletrack reviewer’s cliche of choice) like a bike”.

I have ridden 26″, 29″ and now 650b. They’re all fine. I think 650b may be my favourite, but as it’s a new bike it’s probably a bit early to tell.

Roll with it. Save kittens. 🙂

Why do we need disk breaks

So someone can fix them?

650b is not new it has been used for ages and is used on both the Millennium Falcon and some of the early model ATAT walkers it can also be found in Snowflake fractals and Bracken spores.

Some riders have found attaching a bungee chord to the spokes of 650b to be highly beneficial having a very similar effect to putting grated cheese in the seat post of a 26 Hardtail