29er adoption resistance theory

AKA constantly on the lookout for something new, never satisfied with the perfectly decent bikes you’ve already got.

That’s quite a negative view.
I just see it as there could be something even betterer out there and the only way to find out is by trying new stuff for yourself.
Do you eat the same food every day and dissmiss everything else that’s new to you as wrong. 😉

Momentum is all very well but it was all muddy today. Momentum won’t get you through all of it!

I tried a fully rigid 29er for about a year. Then I rode a fully rigid 26er for a couple of months. I went back to the 29er, just felt right. It just seems to roll better over the terrain near where I live. I’m going to be going mid travel full suss next spring, hopefully there will be a suitable Yeti by then…

Momentum is all very well but it was all muddy today. Momentum won’t get you through all of it!

I found fitting pedals to my 29er solved that problem.

^^ 😆

I guess it’s all a question of personal taste and function. 26ers general accelerate better and turn better, 29ers roll faster and are a bit more stable. Neither is better or worse depending on your riding style and discipline. Each to their own and all that.

I’m pretty short and waiting until a small Solaris comes out next Feb. Until then I’ll stick to my FS 26er and 26er hardtail.

650b is supposed to become the next big thing and surpass both…being the best of both worlds…apparently?!

Three of us did a fun test at Learnie jump park a few months ago to see how far we could roll around the whole area without pedalling.

One 100mm travel 26er, One hardtail 26er (Susp up front) and a 29er with approx 80mm rear/110mm up front.

Each of us rolled around the track and the 29er was stopping short of the 100mm 26er by approx 20ft.

Each of us marked the spots where each bike rolled to a stop and we all tried out each others bikes to find the 29er rolling to a halt,20ft short of the short travel 26er. The hardtail was also ahead of the 29er (which I thought would be the best in sillytest).

Fun little play around,not scientific but .. oh well. :O)

The interesting thing is the way that probably chubby, probably middle aged, probably men, will debate the miniscule performance differences of which ever piece of machinery they are concerned about this week for ages and ages and ages, while never ever even getting close to using said machinery at anything like its limit.

You very funny people.

Copied from that other thread..

I hate to break it to folks but the idea that everyone in the UK that buys a mountain bike is off riding sweet singletrack every day is a complete red herring. Most are bought by folk that will do not much more than ride on the streets, canal tow paths and old railway lines. For that application the hybrid/29er makes a lot more sense.

In 10 years, 26″ wheeled bikes will be a specialist purchase, much like 20″ is now. Choice will be a lot less and not all manufacturers will bother with them.

Three of us did a fun test at Learnie jump park a few months ago to see how far we could roll around the whole area without pedalling…

What was the surface like?

29″ rolls better where there are things for the wheel to fall into – the reason it rolls better is that the angle of attack of the wheel is less. But if it’s gravel or smooth dirt, then it doesn’t matter.

I wonder how much of the 29er effect is psychological?

Oh, and as a corollary – on Tarmac, wheel size is irrelevant. 29″/700c wheels are no faster, assuming same tyre and tyre pressure. That’s why recumbents and Moultons are so fast on the road – small, light, stiff wheels with less air resistance.

It’s not like a fresh bmx track smooth. If you know what I mean. It’s not exactly rough either. Canal towpathy?

After doing it we never talked about it and to be honest.. I haven’t even analyzed it at all. With the tyres and pressures and everything else being different,there’s not much to look into. The 29er just rolled the slowest no matter which one of us rolled it.

The funny thing is, same brand/model of bike but with a lighter set-up and a pro2/flow/tubeless combo, the same thing happened coming over the crest of a hill around a well known race course up here. Everyone on 26 inch wheeled bikes rolled off into the distance while I went backwards. I said at that very moment ‘erm,whats the deal with this?.. I thought 29ers were supposed to roll faster?!’ as the others picked up speed and moved ahead down the track. I even pointed out that although we were descending,I was probably the heaviest rider in the group and still going backwards.

Again, another moment I haven’t analyzed but coupled with a constant feeling of riding with the brakes slightly binding.. compared to my other 26 inch wheeled bikes.. something had to give.

I even have a zesty that can often feel quicker on the climbs. I felt this with both 29er’s I have owned and also felt it on a demo bike that’s probably classed as the holy grail of longer travel carbon 29ers at the moment.

It’s strange. I don’t have the time or patience to look into it. All I know is that I’ll be enjoying the 26 wheel for a while yet.

[Img]http://images.wikia.com/theregularshow/images/b/b4/Cool_Bikes.jpg[/img]

Only donuts care what size the wheels are… bikes are ace.

I saw a guy on a p5 the other day full aero ,zipps ,helmet slammed (contorted) as low as he could get, problem was the grass was growing faster than he was going , don’t think at middle aged fat bloke level the bike makes much difference and if your 40 and in Cameron’s work till you drop big society you can either argue for the next ten or have fun doing it on whatever takes your fancy

I do get the feeling sometimes that new trails are built to suit 29″ wheels, being smoothed out, less technical and less tight and twisty in an effort to force us all down the 29 route.

I love these comments… completely missed the point 😀

You’ve clearly not ridden a 29er then. It’s on the rough techy trails that the big wheels have the most advantage in my experience – rock gardens, steps, roots etc. Suggesting they’re only suitable for smooth trails or tarmac is madness as they’re where the big wheel has no advantage over the 26er.

I’ll agree with you on the very very tight twisty stuff though, my 29er is slower through those sections, and definitely needed a slight change in technique.

Three of us did a fun test at Learnie jump park a few months ago to see how far we could roll around the whole area without pedalling…

Most are bought by folk that will do not much more than ride on the streets, canal tow paths and old railway lines. For that application the hybrid/29er makes a lot more sense.

Try the same test over a rough techy rock garden, that’s where the big wheels come into their own. The idea that 29er’s perform best on smooth surfaces is a myth.

NB. You also choose the trails you ride, nobody forces you, so if you don’t like smooth less technical trails then man-up and shred the gnar 😈

It’s not like a fresh bmx track smooth. If you know what I mean. It’s not exactly rough either. Canal towpathy?

Ah, well then I’m not surprised at all that the 29er was slower – on that kind of surface, wheel size doesn’t matter much until you get very small (like 16″), and with a 29er you’ve got a heavier wheel so more inertia, making acceleration slower.

What everyone says is right – the rougher the surface, the more having a big wheel will help – big wheels don’t fall so far into a hole. Not sure about the “technical” bit of it – you’re fighting the inertia again with technical stuff.

Everyone says that 29ers roll faster, but to be honest the main determinant of how fast I go off road is my nerve. If the bike rolled faster I’d just have to brake more. Like martinxyz I find the ability to go slowly more important and the two 29ers that I’ve tried seemed worse in that regard. I also found that I got more tired on a 4 hour natural trail ride in the Scottish highlands on a 28er hardtail than on my (supposedly less efficient) Five. May have been nothing to do with the wheel size, but it was a bit of a surprise. Still wouldn’t rule one out if I were in the market for a new bike though. Just test whatever you fancy and buy whichever one you like best.

Cheers

Andy

Are people genuinely ‘resistant to change’ or just that they don’t currently need a new bike yet?
All the people I ride with have said that when they replace their bike they will probably test ride a 29er too. There is no talk of ‘resistance’, it’s just that we don’t need new bikes.

I bought a new full sus in 2010 & shortly after that I bought a hardtail frame to build up. So I now have 2 perfectly good bikes. I can’t afford to just go out & replace them with 29ers because everyone is telling me they are better.

It seems that a lot of the time it is the pro 29 wheel people who are desperate to convince people that everyone should swap over to 29″ wheels, rather than people on 26″ wheels being particularly resistant.
If I keep my 26″ wheeled bikes, I am not some kind of clandestine resistance group. I just don’t have a desire to spank a lot of cash on 2 new bikes when the ones I have are perfectly good.

But, I still have a CRT telly because it still works…..

Martinxyz – I’d expect a smaller wheel to go round a pump track or bmx track fastest, it should accelerate faster and a shorter wheelbase of an average 26″ bike works the transitions better, but in a roll-down test on rougher ground a bigger wheel picks up speed faster ie has less rolling resistance (if tyres and pressure are equal).
Makes sod all difference overall in mixed riding conditions to many of us, but it’s where the much-touted ’29er advantages #1 – faster rolling’ comes from. It’s not an energy-creation device though )

Also interesting to note that suspension makes a difference – even on rough terrain a 26″ bike with good full suspension should be faster than a rigid or hard tail 29″ bike.

I am just exploring why folk resist Vs early adopters

Resistance implies we’re all going to end up on them eventually. I hope not.

Now me, I’d no more decide that my next bike must have a certain size of wheel than I’d decide it must have a certain size of rotor, or a certain number of gears. I’d buy the whole bike, not some wheels with a bike coincidentally attached.

Is this still running? (Good thread then I guess CTBM)…

Clearly a topic that people are interested in discussing (or ranting about)…

More of my thoughts:

The rolling resistance debate;

A 29er has two (connected) advantages to my mind, it holds speed better over rough terrain by rolling better; this means the rider is expending less energy in maintaining ground speed, hence a less fatigued rider is a “better perfoming” one…
The fact that a 29″ wheel rolls better in not really debatable, the degree to which that is of benefit to any given rider is IMO…

The question is of course do the benefits balance with the compromises? Some find it does others don’t.

Sadly some see it more as an “ideological” thing that has almost nothing to do with simply judging benefits/compromises of what is really just a piece of sporting equipment TBH.
It’s a bit like a runner projecting all their least favoured character traits onto someone just because they use Nike shoes rather than Asics…

I guess the term “Resistance to adoption” suggested that enevitably we will all be using 29″ wheels, but surely it depends on what they do well and what they don’t?

I’ll admit I’m not fully up to speed with XC racing, are people still podiuming on 26ers? or is that particular arms race over? what about Enduro? or for that matter gravity enduro, I know I’ve not yet seen a 29er on a DH track, but I’ve heard of such bikes existing…

I think it will eventually shake out that some MTB applications end up defaulting to 29″ wheels, XC racing, perhaps Enduro/endurance racing, and Single speed riding/racing (where making the most of one that gear matters) would have the clearest benefits, While sticking to 26″ for DH, 4X and gravity enduro makes sense to my mind.

The route for more widespread adoption of 29ers would be through “Trail Bikes” that is to say the sort of bikes that most riders just go out and ride (not race) on, trail centres, local woods the type of riding that the greater majority of riders probably engage in these days to a certain extent, that rather broad application requires a balance of technical handling and fatigue limiting efficiency for longer rides that a 29″ wheel may provide, but then again a 26″ wheel may already do the job perfectly well…
If 29ers capture the trail bike market, then I think they will become the general “norm” for MTBs… as it is I think they still have the flat backed XC snake and Beardy SSer image in a lot of minds and that could still hinder their adoption…

I also found that I got more tired on a 4 hour natural trail ride in the Scottish highlands on a 29er hardtail than on my (supposedly less efficient) Five.

A fair comparison… I think not 😉

Maybe try an Orange Gyro or Santa Cruz Tallboy on the same ride, then see how you get on.

It seems that a lot of the time it is the pro 29 wheel people who are desperate to convince people that everyone should swap over to 29″ wheels, rather than people on 26″ wheels being particularly resistant.

Not sure who you ride with but the guys from the various groups I ride with are all just pro-bikes regardless of wheel size. We have some light hearted banter about ‘clown wheels’ etc but no more than banter about tyre choice, dropper posts, lycra etc etc. You make your choices and go ride as far as we’re concerned. What we buy or don’t buy in the next few years will ultimately dictate the direction the wheel-size standards go in the future.

Am I the first on this thread to wonder who gives a crap anyway?

Interestingly, I think there’s still only one of the ’29er evangelists’ who has answered the question about 650b.

So how many early adopters of 29″ will try out 650B?
Or will they say ‘I don’t see the point, I like my 29″‘, echoing many 26″ rider’s (perfectly legitimate) feelings now?

I was converted back in 2008 to 29ers, SSer’s they just fitted the environment I ride and ridden and continue to do so. I have just sold my 26er it having been sat in my spare room for 2 years unused.

But then I’m a roadie with mtb blood, so the 29er fits my expectations of what I want from a bike.

It’s simple really- 29r is a cyclecross bike and a 26r is a mountain bike! 8)

The recent Singletrack Magazine test of the Cotic Rocket, Nukeproof Maga & Orange Gyro pretty much perfectly sums up where the sport currently stands for me, i.e. technology and bike design have really come on in recent years and there’s a wide choice of fantastic bikes available for UK trail riding. Some of them happen to have different wheel sizes… and some are also made of different frame materials, and have different geometry, suspension etc. 😉

Nobody is being forced to buy a new bike, and bikes of a certain wheel size are not becoming obsolete just because alternatives are available. Just get out and ride 😀

Interestingly, I think there’s still only one of the ’29er evangelists’ who has answered the question about 650b.

It’s simple really- 29r is a cyclecross bike and a 26r is a mountain bike!

Oh dear. You guys seriously need to just get out more and stop worrying about this stuff.

Choice is good.

I tried a Santa Cruz 29er, great bike, bit too grown up for me I’ll stick to 26, thanks.

Riding is good, riding is good, riding is good, what you ride is up to you. Though I may extract the urine once in a while just for the hell of it. 😈

Interestingly, I think there’s still only one of the ’29er evangelists’ who has answered the question about 650b.

Caveat: I have not ridden a 650b and I have only done a few rides on my 29 (tho enough to stick with it and be a convert).

But here goes: my understanding is a 650b is closer in size (about 40%) to a 26 than it is to a 29 (about 60%). It’s defo not ‘27.5’ in the sense that saying 27.5 implies it’s an exact mid-point. Since I’m not seeing any downsides, and I do feel the advantages, to the 29 over 26 for the riding I’m doing, I’d think I’d chose 29 over 650b but 650b over 26, if I was forced to choose.

This http://www.mbaction.com/Main/News/Shootout_Wheel_Wars_29_vs_275_vs_26_5159.aspx did a side-by-side on 3 similar bikes and came out for 27.5.

I do think that 27.5 Jamis looks nice!

You pays yer money you takes yer choice.

The recent Singletrack Magazine test of the Cotic Rocket, Nukeproof Maga & Orange Gyro pretty much perfectly sums up where the sport currently stands for me, i.e. technology and bike design have really come on in recent years and there’s a wide choice of fantastic bikes available for UK trail riding.

Oh dear. You guys seriously need to just get out more and stop worrying about this stuff.

LOL… is it really only about wheel size for you Grum 😐

Interestingly, I think there’s still only one of the ’29er evangelists’ who has answered the question about 650b.

If the bikes looks nice I personally wouldn’t rule it out, but 29″ works for me, the XL frames look normal. so why go backwards.

Hey CTBM – I have loved SSUKs, SSWCs and SSECs what makes these events fun are amongst other things the wheel sizes (given we are all mincing, pushing and drinking our way round the woods).

I do think I remember you doing Belgium on a Cross bike? Chapeaux!

There’s rigid / suspension / there’s the odd full suss – and we have seen 26ers win in mixed fields of 26 and 29ers (Wales 2010 and Sweden 2006 spring to mind). I have even seen 650bs beating the other two as well as all that crazy 69er business…..

So I agree with you – in that it’s all good. And to say that when the ‘niche people’ get together there isn’t really a niche when it comes to wheels, kind of cuts through the subject for me. Do as you please – and enjoy what everyone else does!

Change the subject – is there momentum for your mooted SSUK13 randonez format by the sea? Me (29er) the wife (26er) and our baby (OO) do hope so!

LOL… is it really only about wheel size for you Grum

Nah I really care very little, I just find evangelists of any sort fairly tedious – I’m just waiting for a DVD to burn for work then I’m off out. 🙂

OK So, lots of people ride 29er and find it better – especially the taller amongst us. I think we can agree on that?
29ers are being heavily marketed with various claims by the manufacturers that they ‘wheel-out’ (ho ho) with every new product. I think we can agree on that?
I think there are three types of people who buy any product. 1 – People who generally find it better. 2 – People who’ve been sold on the marketing and 3. People who don’t want to feel left behind by the trends.
So, if enough people find them good, and enough people are persuaded by the marketing, the 29″ domination becomes self-fulfilling. And before anyone mentions supply and demand – it’s the job of marketing to create new demand where there was none before.
Personally, I don’t care what bike you ride. I’m short and find 29ers unwieldy and even ungainly. I moved from BMX to MTB and had to adapt, took me a while to regain bunny hop height etc. I tried a Spesh 29er at the cycle show, as well as a 26″ Kinesis and a couple of 26″ Pivots. The Spesh felt dreadful – didn’t help that they hadn’t bothered putting decent pedals on it. I can jump and flick my road bike even – mainly because it doesn’t have wheels/rubber the size and weight of mill stones. No doubt they’ll make a 29 bike I can jump and flick with ease one day – but it will cost 5K and still look like I’m a kid on my dad’s bike.

Anyway, my point here is that I’m sticking with 26″ out of preference. My concern, and that of many I assume, is that companies like Specialized will stop making 26″ altogether and others will follow suit. So I’ll be a dying breed finding it hard to find parts and being laughed at at trail centres on my ‘kid’s bike’ 😆
People can laugh at me all they want – but I’ll need the parts! So, I think the reaction you’re experiencing if defensiveness, IMHO.

I think 26ers will still be found at trail centres, where their characteristics are an advantage, just not so much elsewhere. As I’ve already said in this thread, i think you will find parts harder to come by but given how much “old” technology is still around, I don’t think they’ll disappear altogether.

I finally saw some 29ers for the first time on Saturday night when I went to a race! (I did awfully, I was all over the place and kept hitting invisible things that threw me around – eyes getting bad). They do look funny. As someone says above, I just don’t normally ever see them. Interesting though, people race with them, but I will be firnly sticking to 26″.

People keep referring to the difference between 29ers and 26ers.

If it’s so obvious, please can someone quantify it?

I’m currently thinking that the cycling placebo effect is in full flow, and I’d like to know if I’m misguided.