Viewing 40 posts - 241 through 280 (of 302 total)
  • 29er adoption resistance theory
  • Premier Icon singlespeedstu
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    Premier Icon charliedontsurf
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    I do think I remember you doing Belgium on a Cross bike? Chapeaux!

    Yep a surly cross check, I rode there from Dorset, 7 one speed days on the road. Not a great choice of bike for that race, but it has won at Ashton court. Every dog has its day.

    Change the subject – is there momentum for your mooted SSUK13 randonez format by the sea? Me (29er) the wife (26er) and our baby (OO) do hope so!

    Yep. Around Xmas it will all be in place. The plan is sorted, I’ve got to see some farmers, punk bands, and cider makers first.

    Premier Icon charliedontsurf
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    Who here can wheelie a 29″ ?

    I can’t do wheelies on anything, but my failed attempts are better on a jones or Canfield, both of which have different approaches to the norm… Canfield has super short stays, jones has extra slopey seat tube. Point being there are some 29ers that are not difficult to get it up on.

    Premier Icon firestarter
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    I like my wheels on the ground and the ground feels smoother with bigger wheels 😉

    Premier Icon charliedontsurf
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    Premier Icon falkirk-mark
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    Think bike companies are trying to re-invent the wheel

    They have just made it bigger

    Premier Icon charliedontsurf
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    i’ve not trawled through the plethora of replies as it’s time in my life I won’t get back, but, happy to be shot down in flames if this has already been suggested…..

    Surely this whole post is a case of ‘any PR is good PR’ for the bike monger???? Is this an effort to keep a business in the public domain for free instead of paying a fee like the other businesses do as it’s quite clearly an attempt to publicise a business…..

    Nah, if you had read all the posts there is one where I explain my back ground in marketing, sales, brand management etc. I am really curious about how the 29er thing has been slow to be adopted, compared to discs or bar ends for example, and even the industry and media have been slow adopters… And then BOOM here we are.

    And wiggle (for example) will benefit more from this than my business. it’s just me, mrs bikemonger and captain the basset hound, I have enough work to do, finished work at 10pm tonight, and captain stole my scotch egg. And will be kicking off around day break tomorrow in the hope i can get out for the tuesday night ride. I am not here to drum up 29er sales. I have even stated 26 is just fine, and I don’t even sell 26ers.

    Premier Icon GDRS
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    Chas le bike – I await Xmas and the details of a ‘new’ format for SSUK.

    By which time this thread will have mutated into a fat vs. thin debate!

    Premier Icon Paceman
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    Fair comment Charlie The Bikemonger. An interesting debate, thank you. 😀

    Premier Icon prezet
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    I am really curious about how the 29er thing has been slow to be adopted, compared to discs or bar ends for example, and even the industry and media have been slow adopters… And then BOOM here we are

    Marketing hype and bandwagon fad… I’ve never seen a product shoved down peoples throats like the recent 29er push by the industry.

    Premier Icon jameso
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    ^ agree with paceman, good to see a post about the thinking surrounding it rather that what’s ‘best’.

    I am really curious about how the 29er thing has been slow to be adopted, compared to discs or bar ends for example, and even the industry and media have been slow adopters… And then BOOM here we are.

    I think if there had been a ~600-610mm BSD rim that was said to be MTB specifc the take-up could’ve been faster – there would have been no CX/road baggage. Let’s face it, 29″ started as an almost monster-x kind of bike. We’d have still been attached to 26″ as the MTB ‘identity’ but like sus and other things, it may have been accepted as more of an option without that link.
    (and the 15-20mm diameter loss would make pretty much — all difference to rolling feel but could help with clearances / geo, another fair reason the first 29ers weren’t more widely embraced)

    The bike ‘industry’ seems to evolve as a group of brands and sub-contractors so a major new standard is hard to bring to market, competitors often don’t want to admit someone else did it right and first and then follow them. Or, innovators don’t have the ££ to start soemthing from scratch and adapt what they can – ie all the wheels we choose from for an MTB are borrowed from other bikes.

    Premier Icon jameso
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    I’ve never seen a product shoved down peoples throats like the recent 29er push by the industry.

    I’m not aware of any ‘pushing down throats’? This comment comes up a lot but media-thing-of-the-moment isn’t quite the same as being force-fed it imo. Much of the media was anti it for a long time, a new wheel size really has to survive on its merits. No more ‘pushing’ than suspension, for example (all those HT vs FS tests got boring too). There’s a lot of exposure for them yes, but it’s something new for mags and forums to discuss and depite some brands doing what they think is commercially best (29er-only categories based on needing to sell what people seem to want in their most influential markets), it’s still very much a buyer’s market from what I see on this side of the trade.

    If not enough people liked them, there wouldn’t be a market. I say this a lot at the moment, but really, people give marketeers way too much credit for influence and power..

    Premier Icon crashtestmonkey
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    CTBM, the difference is clearly the cost of “entry” into the world of 29er, requiring a totally new bike. Even if someone is in the market for a new bike most of us on here at least are ‘n+1’ types, and have a garage/shed full of tyres and tubes, or nice wheels we chop and change between bikes depending on mood/riding.

    Pragmatism and finances rather than cynicism might be the case for many?

    Premier Icon druidh
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    When fork standards keep changing and a new set of suspension forks can be £800 then I think it’s pushing credibility to suggest that all 26 er stuff is a cheap mix’n’match option.

    Premier Icon prezet
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    I’m not aware of any ‘pushing down throats’?

    Magazines that hardly covered 29ers were suddenly covering them in every article, claiming them as the best thing since sliced bread, preaching “how could we have coped on 26″ for so long”. LBS now take stock and stick them at the front of house. Video’s appearing attempting to show how much easier it was to climb on 29″… etc etc. All just at the same time as the industry produces swathes of new 29″ kit… a co-incidence, I think not.

    Do it for long enough, and people start to buy into it.

    For the industry it’s great – customers buying whole new kit, LBS’s jump on the band wagon, obviously it’s better to sell the customer a new bike rather than just the latest wheel set. Magazines get on board because they’re told to by their clients who purchase large amounts of advertising space.

    Premier Icon druidh
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    Lee Powell wrote:

    For the industry it’s great – customers buying whole new kit, LBS’s jump on the band wagon, obviously it’s better to sell the customer a new bike rather than just the latest wheel set. Magazines get on board because they’re told to by their clients who purchase large amounts of advertising space.

    Very few LBSs will be relishing the adoption of 1 or 2 more wheel sizes. That’s just more spares to keep and cuts down their options for getting a decent wholesale price on a buy of very small numbers.

    Are people really going out and buying new bikes to replace their currently serviceable ones on the basis of a few magazine articles or are they actually just replacing when the older stuff starts to wear out?

    In any case, I think you give too much credence to the idea of an all powerful media. Compared with the number of bikes sold in this country, magazine sales are pitiful

    Premier Icon ononeorange
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    prezet +1. jameso – just go and take a look at a recent copy of MBR.

    Anyhow. I can’t see 26″ disappearing as some seem to think as it would mean the more “normally sized” rider essentially not being able to ride in comfort.

    Interesting debate, though. Apart from one brief bit somewhere, there wasn’t really any “29ers are best ‘cos I’ve got one” – very refreshing.

    Firmly still in the 26″ camp.

    Premier Icon druidh
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    ononeorange wrote:

    Anyhow. I can’t see 26″ disappearing as some seem to think as it would mean the more “normally sized” rider essentially not being able to ride in comfort.

    Sorry, but for “normal sized” riders doing “normal” off-road biking, 29ers are perfect. Whether they are still perfect for doing trail centres is another matter.

    Premier Icon prezet
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    Sorry, but for “normal sized” riders doing “normal” off-road biking, 29ers are perfect.

    As are 26ers.

    Premier Icon mcboo
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    It certainly wasnt magazines or “the industry” that made me switch across. It was lining up at events earlier this year and seeing all the quick guys on big-wheelers. The penny really dropped when I did a multi day event in the summer with a pal I’ve always ridden at the same pace as……him on 29er, he was just drifting away from me every day, and as the week went on and we got more fatigued it was more and more apparent how much more beaten up I was. Lot of that is subjective of course but my Garmin tracks tell me I’m 4.5% faster on my local XC loop on a 29er Ti hardtail than the same in 26″.

    Premier Icon wrecker
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    Fine if you’re racing. I don’t care how fast I go around some loop. I care about how much fun I have doing it.

    Sorry, but for “normal sized” riders doing “normal” off-road biking, 29ers are perfect.

    In your opinion, of course. Not in mine.

    I’m not “resisting adoption”. I just don’t want one. Neither do my friends and relatives.

    Premier Icon prezet
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    I’m not “resisting adoption”. I just don’t want one. Neither do my friends and relatives.

    I was quite surprised when my brother turned up at my house on one… he knows nothing about bikes really, and this was apparently what the LBS picked out for him.

    The next day I bought him a nice wicker basket to put on the front.

    Premier Icon emac65
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    Perhaps some people just see it for the marketing hype that it is ?Magazines were slow on the uptake as there were none of the “big hitters” making them.Now there are, well it’d be daft not too wouldn’t it if they want to survive…

    Yes,I have got one & have had it for over 3 years now, as well as trying several other types.It’s just a bike that is better on some things & worse on others,one cancels out the other imho & in the end the two are about equal…..

    Premier Icon molgrips
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    I think if I were buying my XC race bike now instead of 5 years ago it’d be 29er. In fact for the last few years the current model of that bike has been 29er only.

    Premier Icon firestarter
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    Funny you say that prezet my mate got a bike on the bike to work scheme and came back from shop with a spesh 29er , he didn’t even know what it was and when I mention it was a 29er he had never heard of one

    on a side not in a similar vein to druid, I prefer using a 29er in all places other than purpose built trail centres, but then that could be twofold , a. I don’t particularly like purpose built trail centres and b. they are built by 26″ wheel riders 😉

    Premier Icon ononeorange
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    druidh – may I presume to ask how tall you are, please?

    Premier Icon imnotverygood
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    He’s nearly a dwarf

    Premier Icon ChunkyMTB
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    This thread is like a Brant master class in viral marketing.

    Premier Icon druidh
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    imnotverygood wrote:

    He’s nearly a dwarf

    That. 😆

    5’7″ actually. That puts me on a Medium Salsa El Mariachi or a Medium SC Tallboy. The XS Salsa is suitable for riders down to 5’1″ so I guess that covers the majority of folk in the UK?

    Premier Icon ononeorange
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    OK, I am really surprised. In my entirely unscientific poll on here, you are the first 29″ rider under about 6’silly”. I have long assumed that one had to be freakishly tall to even be able to get on one (no pun intended).

    Premier Icon jameso
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    Magazines get on board because they’re told to by their clients who purchase large amounts of advertising space.

    That old theory again huh.. I’ve worked at a company with a bigger ad spends per month in the main 2 or 3 mags than trek or spesh and it will get you noticed as a company, but it doesn’t stop bad reviews of products with flaws.

    ononeorange – Key journo’s opinions have changed as bikes have evolved and improved. MBR slated them a few years back, not so much now – it may have been trek’s influence, but not from ad budgets – their demo fleet manager told us they pretty much forced them to try them at a launch depspite their resistance to them and I heared they came back a bit more open minded. And then tried some others. I had an interesting chat with one of the real 29er antis from MBR recently who’s done an about-turn to a degree that suprised me and you know when someone’s genuine by the way they describe what they like about a bike.

    And none of us get paid enough to ride bikes we don’t actaully prefer in our own time! )

    That’s what the thread’s about, how and why people’s minds change. Not everyone’s does, but many antis have become pros, myself included. I like 650B too fwiw. And I really don’t care what anyone rides either as long as they’re happy, I just think all this stuff about marketing brainwashing and big-brand control conspiracy is paranoid guff..

    I’ll say again,

    a new wheel size really has to survive on its merits.

    Let’s see where we are in a few years .. I’d love to know, it’s giving me a headache these days ) to the point where I’ve ridden 3 wheel sizes in the last week.

    Premier Icon druidh
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    oneonorange – this is the only photo I can find of the 16″ Scandal 29er I briefly had. I’d not yet dialled in the riding position but it perhaps gives you some idea of how “proportionate” it was for me.


    P1020556 by druidh_dubh, on Flickr

    FWIW, I’ve ridden a medium Salsa and the Small would be cramped.

    Premier Icon klumpy
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    Scandal! Wood, 16 inches, in lady garden!

    Premier Icon ononeorange
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    Thanks druidh.

    Premier Icon Singlespeed_Shep
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    I wonder how roadies felt when mountain bikes first got rammed down their throats.

    Premier Icon mattjg
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    OK, I am really surprised. In my entirely unscientific poll on here, you are the first 29″ rider under about 6’silly”. I have long assumed that one had to be freakishly tall to even be able to get on one (no pun intended).

    5’8″

    so now we are two

    your assumption is wrong

    go try

    Premier Icon racefaceec90
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    i don’t have a problem with 29″ bikes.
    i do have a problem when bike companies are making their bikes nearly all 29″ only in their range (specialized/giant to name but 2 companies).if i have the money to buy a new bike,i want to be able to have the choice still of a 26″ wheeled version 🙂

    Premier Icon prezet
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    I wonder how roadies felt when mountain bikes first got rammed down their throats

    They got 29ers… 😉

    Premier Icon druidh
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    racefaceec90 wrote:

    i don’t have a problem with 29″ bikes.
    i do have a problem when bike companies are making their bikes nearly all 29″ only in their range (specialized/giant to name but 2 companies).if i have the money to buy a new bike,i want to be able to have the choice still of a 26″ wheeled version

    You’ll still have a choice, but it will be more restricted. The big guys will focus on the models which will guarantee them the largest number of sales and, as I’ve said, for most riders on most terrain this will be the larger wheel size. Eventually, the market will reach the appropriate balance.

    Premier Icon Euro
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    ^^ That’s pretty much how i see it druidh. It’s just another style of bike we get to choose from.

    I’m actually a lot more interested in riding one after reading this thread. I don’t think 29er would suit me as an ‘only bike’, but one some rides it sounds like the weapon of choice.

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