My theory on 29er adoption resistance. Inspired to spew this down as “the great 29er debate” still goes on, and I am now tired of it.

I have been selling or rather trying to sell 29ers since 2006 ish. They attracted a lot of criticism in the early days, and some of it was justified at the time. Now 29ers are dialled and the old complaints are no longer valid, but they still echo on in forums, hillsides and maybe some mags. They actually made some people angry, they hated the idea, jibes, heckling, insults… it was a sort of cycling rascism. Total strangers at afan shouting “you wont be able to ride down this on that”. (imagine hanging around a golf course and shouting at tall strangers with longer golf bats as they are about to take a swing) But why would someone else riding a bike with different wheels upset people so much?

For 20 plus years we had been sold a single format, a bit like vinyl records. All the media, retail, and manufacturing was inline. Whenever something new came along it was generally retro-fit-able to your existing bike. So when MBUK showed you a flex stem you simply swapped stems, added a suspension fork, bar ends, club roost riser bars, SPD pedals, purple in general… Etc. “how can I fit suspension forks to my bike?”…. ” not a problem sir, just leave it and a wad of money with me, pick it up Tuesday” . Although these tech developments had their haters they were pretty much universally adopted pretty damned quickly.

So 29er turns up, chap gets the concept of big wheels, “can you fit these 29er wheels to my bike?”…. “No sir you need new everything, you need a new bike” . The buyers belief structure, the news, the reviews of 20 odd years, is now all being reevaluated. It’s challenging everything they believed in. Try walking into a church with all the evidence in the world, and demonstrating that there is no god… 2000 years of belief wont just go away. the stuff you believed in… The wonderful tricked out 26inch pride and joy, that is just brilliant, and MBR agree with you… The great tyres, those new forks, the lovely wheels… The bike I have been refining and perfecting over years and years of upgrades is now defunct. It’s vinyl, it’s Betamax, it’s VHS at best.

So what do you do, go with the new, or stick with what you believed and attack the new. (There is a nice middle ground, or just riding what you have and not whining about 29, and just getting on with 26. Buy a DVD player, and keep the VHS too) There are some attackers left. Often Finding evidence that they are right, 29 is wrong (“I too was considering getting a cheapish 29er (canyon nerve al 29) then i did the oktoberfest and witnessed pro/semipro riders trying to muscle and heave them through the twisty sections.”) that is not evidence, that is just a slower rider.

There are people who genuinely prefer 26, some places where 26 is better, and then their are some who are haters. But then some people get angry at mix-race marriages, gays in B&Bs, religous folk, atheist folk etc.

I suggest the wheel size is not wrong, just some people.

Evangelists of any wheel size are tedious.

Charlie….too much for me to read this early…..but i reckon you are nail on the head there. 😀

I agree, it’s all just bikes. They’re not wrong, just different.

Except fat bikes, they’re clearly wrong ‘uns.

Evangelists of any wheel size are tedious.

+1
it’s only a bloody bike, 😕 Ride what you want…

I won’t be buying a 29er for the simple reason they are too big for lil’ old me.
Anyone else can ride what they like.

Evangelists of any wheel size are tedious.

+1

But why would someone else riding a bike with different wheels upset people so much?

It’s not the riding of the bike with different sized wheels that upsets people, it’s the endless marketing hype and **** on about how they’re SO incredible and ‘how do people still ride these outdated 26″ wheel bikes’ that annoys people. Bit like your OP in fact.

Except fat bikes, they’re clearly wrong ‘uns.

I’ve been told many times in the past that I’m a wrong un.
Maybe it was unavoidable that a got a fatbike a couple of years ago. 😆

how do people still ride these outdated 26″

Examples? I’ve not seen that.
All i see is people getting excited because they have a new bike.
Happens with any wheel size/style of bike.

The bike industry is there to make money, no money = no bikes = no riding

I don’t really care how they do it as I am able enough to ignore what doesn’t interest me.

All those of you who think you have outsmarted the evil corporations and their push on 29ers, well done. But what other marketing hype have you fallen for Full Sus? Dropper Posts? indexed gears? disc on CX bikes?

Choice is good.

Nicely put charlie. Cycling – its whatever you want it to be in my opinion

I think the evangelising about 29ers goes a bit far. I don’t think the 26″ diameter is defunct. The Betamax/VHS analogy doesn’t really work because the move from analogue to digital comes with literally zero downsides – the benefits are clear. The advantages of a 29er only apply in certain situations/environments.

I’ve ridden 29ers and there are definite benefits but I don’t think they are so clearcut as to make the 26″ obsolete. Saying that anyone looking at buying a new bike should definitely consider 29er as an option.

What SSS said.

I wasn’t really aware of any hatred towards 29ers, just a lot of people not convinced they’re better or at least not enough of an improvement to warrant the large investment required. I have 26ers, 29ers and road bikes, all ride differently and are better at some things than the others and vice versa, there is no perfect do-it-all bike it just depends what you’re willing to compromise on to improve some other area of the ride.

Examples? I’ve not seen that.

Er…..

The wonderful tricked out 26inch pride and joy, that is just brilliant, and MBR agree with you… The great tyres, those new forks, the lovely wheels… The bike I have been refining and perfecting over years and years of upgrades is now defunct. It’s vinyl, it’s Betamax, it’s VHS at best.

Plenty of other examples on here too.

They actually made some people angry, they hated the idea, jibes, heckling, insults… it was a sort of cycling rascism. Total strangers at afan shouting “you wont be able to ride down this on that”.

I find it very hard to believe this wasn’t in the realm of piss-taking/banter taken far too seriously.

It’s fun to take the pee

I ride a fs skill compensator, I shall take the lee out of those who do the same

I ride a road bike, I shall take the pee out of roadies

I ride a rigid ss and take the pee out of those who do the same

I have friends who have joined the phat bike phad and shall continue to take the pee out of them

Don’t take life too seriously

Grum… So did you read that and see

endless marketing hype and **** on about how they’re SO incredible and ‘how do people still ride these outdated 26″ wheel bikes’

. If so You missed the point, you have actually taken the point and twisted it to suit you.

This advertising people refer to… Come on, show me an example of advertising 29ers that hypes about how 26 is outdated. I have not seen any. Please post an example. Be interested to see it, sincerely. If this heavy duty 26 attacking advertising exists, then fair do’s. or is it normal advertising exaggerated by people who don’t like 26 being questioned.

I suspect it’s no different to advertising for one brand of tyre over another. And it’s the fact that it challenges 26 belief structure that annoys, not the advert itself. you see adverts suggesting You need a new car, see them everyday You watch tv, You recognise it as hype, but its not annoying enough to make you comment on it, It’s just advertising.

Grum.
One of the examples you used is talking about the negativity that some people showed towards 29ers . Not 29er riders saying other formats are dead.

When i look at a new bike thread I just think oh look someones got a new bike and it makes them happy. Good for them.
I’ve not got to ride their bike so i couldn’t give two hoots what colour/ wheel size/ style of bike it is.
It’s what they wanted.

Pretty much what Grum says, I’ve tried a 29er and it’s not for me. I’ve no issue with others riding them if that is there want but I’m sick of having 29 inches rammed down my throat (oo er missus!). Constantly being told “29 is the future dude” and rumours of Specialized and other manufacturers all but dropping 26ers from their ranges are annoying to say the least. I do get the feeling sometimes that new trails are built to suit 29″ wheels, being smoothed out, less technical and less tight and twisty in an effort to force us all down the 29 route. As I’ve already said I’m not a hater, I tried it and didn’t like it. If I’m to be forced into buying a bike with bigger wheels to ride smoother trails I may as well make my nexy purchase a road bike.

Fat bike, rat bike
thin bike, bling bike
geared bike, beard bike
bike for wife, bike for life
bikes with springs, bikes with dings, shiny things, give you wings
fresh and new, oooh suits you……….

Grim… Again you are quoting me to twist something to your view. I had a tricked out 26, my SC chameleon pride and joy, it was obsolete when I went to 29. That is not knocking 26, it’s what I experienced.

I don’t mind banter, but it was very odd for strangers to heckle you as you went over the edge into a tetchy bit. It was not aggressive, I did not fear them. It’s was an odd thing to do…. AND IS NOT AN EXAMPLE OF 26 BASHING.

I do get the feeling sometimes that new trails are built to suit 29″ wheels

😆

That one’s easy to solve. 😉

Charlie – for a grown man you seem a wee bit over-sensitive.
Personally, I don’t give a shit what someone says or thinks about what and how I ride. I do pity folk who have closed minds and are unable to open them to new ideas though.

Grum.
One of the examples you used is talking about the negativity that some people showed towards 29ers . Not 29er riders saying other formats are dead.

Not how I read it but admittedly I found the rambling a bit hard to follow at times. 🙂

Edit: oh, it looks like I was right

Grim… Again you are quoting me to twist something to your view. I had a tricked out 26, my SC chameleon pride and joy, it was obsolete when I went to 29. That is not knocking 26, it’s what I experienced.

🙂

And it’s the fact that it challenges 26 belief structure that annoys, not the advert itself. you see adverts suggesting You need a new car, see them everyday You watch tv, You recognise it as hype, but its not annoying enough to make you comment on it, It’s just advertising

It’s not equivalent to advertising a new car, it’s equivalent to advertising a new type of car with different sized wheels which is functionally almost identical, and pretending its some kind of ‘paradigm shift in transport’.

This advertising people refer to… Come on, show me an example of advertising 29ers that hypes about how 26 is outdated. I have not seen any. Please post an example. Be interested to see it, sincerely. If this heavy duty 26 attacking advertising exists, then fair do’s. or is it normal advertising exaggerated by people who don’t like 26 being questioned.

People on here have said it numerous times, dunno that much about advertising because I rarely read bike magazines, but do you deny there is a massive industry push to sell 29ers, and that this might not be entirely motivated by altruism about how great they are?

do you deny there is a massive industry push to sell 29ers

It’s no different to the normal industry push to sell you more travel/slacker angles/wider bar/ shorter stem kind of stuff.

Every year certain companys try to tell you that the new bike is all singing all dancing wander bike.(regardless of wheel size)
Why are some people suddenly up in arms about it.
It’s nothing new.

Nah, not over sensitive.
But I am picky when I am mis quoted.
Anyway this is not about me. I am just exploring why folk resist Vs early adopters, using wheelsize as the theme. 20 years ago we could have used bar ends as the theme. There is psychology and “stuff” in this subject, and I am curious, it interests me.

Has anyone found an example of 26 knocking advertising yet?

TBH for the vast majority of UK “leisure cyclists” the larger wheel makes more sense. Truth is that only a small number of mountain bikes ever see usage where a 26″ wheel has a strong advantage. The market has been skewed by the “hard core” represented on places like this forum and in the magazines.

I love 29ers and 26ers. That’s why I seem to have ended up with a large collection :-/

The idea that 29ers are faster makes me chuckle though.

Once again we’re treading that thin line between banter and offense.

For what it’s worth I have a tricked out 26er and now a 29er (both singlespeed). The 29er is now the first choice for racing but for pratting about on dry singletrack it’s the 26er every time.
I wouldn’t be seen dead on a 650B (commitment avoidance bike) though.

It’s no different to the normal industry push to sell you more travel/slacker angles/wider bar/ shorter stem kind of stuff.

Except massively bigger than any of those, and requiring massively more expense to get involved than buying a new stem for instance. Even to buy a longer travel 26″ bike you can just buy a frame and swap parts over. Hmmm I wonder why the industry is so keen?

Nah, not over sensitive.
But I am picky when I am mis quoted.

Please explain how I misquoted you? And if we’re talking about misquoting, I never said there were adverts knocking 26ers, I was talking about people on here evangelising, combined with the marketing push.

Anyway this is not about me. I am just exploring why folk resist Vs early adopters, using wheelsize as the theme. 20 years ago we could have used bar ends as the theme. There is psychology and “stuff” in this subject, and I am curious, it interests me.

Unfortunately this comes across as quite smug and patronising, suggesting that you are the enlightened compared to the Luddites etc. I’m perfectly willing to accept there might be advantages to 29ers, I just suspect they are massively overplayed, and I don’t really like the look of most of the ones I’ve seen.

And you never sent me any stickers, TWICE. 🙂

I’m out if here for now… But before I go…

It’s not equivalent to advertising a new car, it’s equivalent to advertising a new type of car with different sized wheels which is functionally almost identical, and pretending its some kind of ‘paradigm shift in transport’.

New car… 4wd, hybrid, Eco, Big , small…. Tooth brushes that clean your tongue, a closer shave from 5 blades, with a lube strip. Yeah it’s all the same.

With 29er, I have not seen advertising that knocks 26, but you get a lot of customer endorsements. In the ad world there is a saying… “Advertising is the most expensive least trusted, least effective form of communication know to mankind.” Word of mouth, customer testimonials, are far more effective, more valid, more trusted. Maybe the flip to 29 has come from this grass roots organic support, rather than the advertisers and reviews (initially, with MBR and everyone else media’ing it up more recently) ???

I do get the feeling sometimes that new trails are built to suit 29″ wheels, being smoothed out, less technical and less tight and twisty in an effort to force us all down the 29 route.

WTF?!? 😯

Yo
2
The
C
t’
BM.
😆

I suggest the wheel size is not wrong, just some people.

New sticker right there

Perfect for my new ‘I will cram 26″ wheels into my 24″ frame’ singlespeed. Hey it even looks like a mini 29er, barring the vertigo-inducing bottom bracket height. 😉

Grum +1

Personally I don’t care what other people ride. Bikes is bikes.
But I’m not that keen on all the hype and marketing that’s accompanied the release of 29ers.
I’m happy with my bike, I don’t need a new improved wheelsize one, I don’t need salesmen constantly telling me I do.
To me, the release of 29ers isn’t anything to do with what I need, it’s about the sales that retailers need to make.

Anyone thinking that retailers want a whole new series of standards to stock and repair is way off. Maybe it’ll be good for the bigger chains. To your LBS it is a whole new level of pain.

Anyway this is not about me. I am just exploring why folk resist Vs early adopters, using wheelsize as the theme.

Charlie, “early adopters Vs. resistance” is simply “optimists Vs. pessimists” IMO. People being people. If you try and convince a pessimist you are right they resist harder and you get called foolish, gullible, or worse….

As soon as I saw SingularSams very sexy looking advert for a Swift few years back (wish I could find it but I can’t, help me out Sam!) it spoke to me as a bike that simply looked ‘right’. Not a ‘game changer’. It just looked right. Lots and lots of you will know what I mean. Certain bikes just give you that feeling (my Five gives me the same feeling). So I built one, hoping for the best but prepared for all sorts, a bit ‘Optimistic’ you might say. Turns out I was right, it not only looked right, it IS right. Is it because it’s a 29er? or just a sorted bike?

Who knows, but it rides damn well.

Except massively bigger than any of those, and requiring massively more expense to get involved than buying a new stem for instance. Even to buy a longer travel 26″ bike you can just buy a frame and swap parts over. Hmmm I wonder why the industry is so keen?

So you swap your short travel frame for the latest long travel wander bike and don’t swap the fork?
You’ll be needing bigger brakes too with all that extra speed you’ll have with an extra 1″ of travel. You’re wheels won’t be up to it either, best get some wider rims…

It’s no different.

TBH most people on here just buy a cheap 29er to try it out.
I spent less on my first 29er than i did on the 26″ fork i got the month before.
Don’t see where the massively more expensive bit fits in there.

“Advertising is the most expensive least trusted, least effective form of communication know to mankind.”

Magazine reviews — possibly the most mistakenly trusted form of communication known to mankind.

They ARE better. At some things. Worse at others. Much depends on what the wheels are attached to. 26″ is BETTER at the things 29ers aren’t as good at.

650B is either a good compromise or a wishy washy no man’s land, that’ll be the next endless debate.

I think CTBM’s point about new wheels bringing all we understood and acepted about what defines an MTB into question is true and totally valid. That’s the issue – too many of us were closed-minded to it. I was for a while, more than I should’ve been since I was working on 29ers in 2006 – not early in the scheme of things but still seems like a long time ago.
This lesson has been learned by many and that’s the main reason people in the industry have been far more open minded to 650B. It’s no more or less an answer for everyone than 26″ or 29″, but it’s being suppported by more parts faster so adoption will be easier – and perception of sales+marketing onslaught higher too I expect.

I’m a confirmed 26″ rider, I freely admit that I haven’t had the opportunity to ride a 29″ bike. I am vaguely curious to try one, but certainly not excited about them.

I largely agree with your basic principle Charlie though, it was well put. Just to add my two pence-worth, as someone else says there are certain people (none on this thread) who do seem to evangelise endlessly about them in a way to exclude any other sort of wheel size, and imply that a 26″ rider is somehow inferior. I would suggest certain of the mass-market magazines (not ST). Perhaps just a complex on my part? Perhaps. But it is enough to get hackles up, and then the unjustified comments can start. It adds to it when some of us believe / suspect / whatever that we are simply not built (ie not tall enough) to ride a 29″ bike. That’s life I suppose. But I will try one one day.

Please note no 29ers have been abused / hurt in the course of my experiences.