She’s not deluded. She’s just unscrupulous and innately dishonest. Unlike Johnson she knows the difference between truth and lies, she just doesn’t think it applies to her (Johnson I think really doesn’t know that they’re not the same thing)

(OOB might consider that a personal attack but it’s just a statement of facts. She’s got 0 chance of being PM, and she knows it. Unite For Remain is a whitewash made mostly out of misdirection which is more likely to help the Tories than to hinder them, and she knows that too. She’s a much more competent liar than Johnson but that’s not better.)

Yep, that’s why I put the rebuttal in before you even responded.

Or do you think she has a greater than 0% chance of being PM? Do you think that Unite For Remain is a totally legit and well intentioned movement? Do you even think she’s the leader of the biggest remain party?

We shouldn’t be worried about calling liars what they are, that’s just a way for honest people to enable the liars and further devalue the truth.

The really troublesome thing about Swinson’s lib dems, is that the key lies aren’t even productive lies. Unite For Remain’s a joke which could have achieved a lot but instead has as its single most likely outcome one more hard leaver MP. Insisting she can be PM undermines everything else she says since literally nobody believes it, but she’s so committed to that lie that she can’t even take advantage of the opportunities provided by “I will not be PM but we can still achieve a lot” which is where all of her strength really is. She’s limited her own useful options with her own needless, transparent, ineffectual lies.

I’m never a fan of political lies but at least sometimes they’re a means to an end and that’s understandable if not laudable.

I really don’t get all the vitriol aimed at Jo Swinson. She just comes across like a particularly annoying primary school teacher

Not too late to edit taxi

All of it is untrue ffs.

Is Saudi Arabia the only Muslim country?

Do British Muslims disown their kids if they become Christian?

All of it is untrue ffs.

Is Saudi Arabia the only Muslim country?

Do British Muslims disown their kids if they become Christian?

It’s not untrue it’s partially true…. it’s misleading because it is giving an impression perhaps it means ALL …

Saudi is by far not the only Islamic country that punishes conversion by death.
My ex certainly got disowned for being an atheist… (though she ended up becoming a Jehovas Witness ???)

Do British Muslims disown their kids if they become Christian?

In many many cases yes.

She just comes across like a particularly annoying primary school teacher

But she’s the real enemy Binners… catch up. Only a few more weeks left to defeat the LibDems, which must be the goal for all of us, even though it’s handing Johnson seats that he needs… it’s far more important to keep the LibDem seat count down so that we can not be challenged in our role as Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition. Only a few more weeks before Labour can return to the opposition front bench, pure and unsullied by cooperating with yellow Tories and dangerous Scottish separatists. And let’s not even mention those cynical Greens.

Anyone, I really like Corbyn’s scarf… where can I get one the same. The heckler was a grade A plonker.

Only a few more weeks left to defeat the LibDems, which must be the goal for all of us

I love the level of projection going on here.
Swinson has made it clear that she does want to be in a position where she can demand that Labour jump to her wishes which include removing of those who dont suit her ideological aims.
For some odd reason Labour supporters arent overly keen on having someone with rather right wing tendencies dictating to them who they should have as their leader.
Hopefully at some stage the Libdems will tell the orange book brigade to piss off so they can return to being a semi reasonable choice.

I’m not going argue about that it’s just a fact.

Is that one of those facts you can prove, or just one of those other sort of “facts” where you can’t actually prove it, but just “know” it’s true?

Who cares why. What do you do about it? Far too late to do the obvious and replace him. You can’t sideline him in the campaign. You can’t turn it into some joint leader/deputy campign, because Watson is doing a runner. What do you do? Keep smiling and press on ‘till the election is out of the way.

ruled by someone who is like them?

When did you last speak to someone who thinks Corbyn is “like them”!? People see him as someone who has made a living out of politics, has never done a days hard work, sleeps around with other politicians, a middle class layabout who dresses like a comedy poor man, someone jumps to the defence of Russia & Iran when no one else does… they see him as alien.

In many many cases yes.

There are many cases of people, including Christians and atheists being complete dicks. But I don’t go around saying ‘atheists are dicks’ or ‘Christians are dicks’. The reason your comments are racist is that you are taking an example of dickish behaviour and reasoning that, because the people happen to be Muslim, that they are behaving badly specifically because they are Muslims – therefore insinuating that Muslims are bad people. This is a terrible road to go down, it really is.

Dazh… the Rayner stuff is playing well… it has to be said. Repeating 2017 will be an uphill struggle though… people won’t suddenly ignore two years of Corbyn turning them away/off… we’re not in the same situation as 2017… Johnson is the new radical leader now, not Corbyn, as maddeningly messed up as that is.

The only inter-faith marriage I know of that caused family disownment involved a Sikh woman. Not sure what this has to do with this thread. I know lots of Muslims married to non-Muslims… never heard of any issues.

[Everyone in these pointless anecdotes is voting Labour – I even had a heated drunken debate with my Sikh friend’s husband at another wedding, where he was trying to get me to vote Labour when Miliband was leader, despite the mugs and Edstone nonsense trying to use immigration as a campaign tool … he was right, I should have.]

So… where can I buy that scarf?

I love how Boris Johnson rounds off his speech warning about "a coalition of chaos".

In the last five years his Tory party has overseen two referenda, three elections and are onto their third PM.

Strong and stable??

— Pippa Crerar (@PippaCrerar) November 13, 2019

Well, I think I’m up to double figures in people who have said to me in a real, yes you can actually still get those, conversation that they would vote Labour if it wasn’t for Grandpa.

These are conversations that strayed onto politics as a topic.

These are fairly apolitical ‘normal’ people.

The sort of people who are really pissed off about Brexit, can see why it is a terrible idea, but still can’t hold their noses strongly enough to vote Labour whilst Grandpa is in charge.

Let the attacks commence on this post, but it doesn’t stop it being true.

The sort of people who are really pissed off about Brexit, can see why it is a terrible idea, but still can’t hold their noses strongly enough to vote Labour whilst Grandpa is in charge.

That ordinary people think that Boris is in any way a viable alternative is quite horrifying. You’re voting to put hundreds of thousands if not millions of people through hell. Don’t do it.

Fast forward a few years, and if Rayner is leader (as I’m sure she will be), and it will be a whole load of stuff about how she wants to hand power to the chavs from the estates, the fact she’s got ginger hair and a bit of a lisp

Kier Starmer. Won’t be accused of wanting to hand power to the chavs from the estates, Non-ginger, decent orator.

that scarf?

Wins my wholehearted approval.

I really don’t get all the vitriol aimed at Jo Swinson. She just comes across like a particularly annoying primary school teacher

That’s because your not analysing her position as critically as you do magic grandad’s.

In all seriousness we all take sides and it’s clearly going to get uncomfortable for the people that have faith with the libdemos to realise (quite slowly) they’re not as wholesome as they thought they were.

Len McClusky is the most devastatingly effective voter-repellent ever deployed.

Can someone not kidnap him and lock him in a shed for the next 6 weeks?

He’s a ****ing liability!