1x systems – what are the benefits?

nickjb – people are claiming weight saving – one chap even a whole lb – I would like to know if this is really true

Its a bonus. I’ve been riding for years so seen many improvements. Suspension forks, disk brakes, Full suss, dropper posts, etc and these have always come at a higher price and weight. Here is an improvement (for me) that is cheaper and lighter and mostly changing bits you change periodically anyway. Its not a reason to change in itself but it is a nice free gift. Wouldn’t hard to save a pound with certain setups, I suspect by mixing and matching you could even create a 1x system that is heavier than a 3x if you wanted to win an argument but it really isn’t a big factor.

Update to my post about who used 1x on the HT550 – Phil Addyman used a 2x. Not sure why I couldn’t see the mech in shots of his bike 🙄

No one is discussing price here. Pay a lot and you’ll buy a great 1x system – however a lot of people would not be able to pay those amounts.

So whn you say Tour Divide done on a 1x it’s a bit misleading.. Who knows how much that setup costs so imo opinion its not a fair comparison.

Of course if we want to be picky then yes…1x is sufficient for all. But that is only if you have the money to pay for the system that matches your needs and you’re willing to replace your whole drivetrain at a premium cost if necessary (including cranks to fit 28t if that was your need).

I have a long list of problems with 1x drivetrains and resisted for ages.

The chain line is terrible.
The chains are more fragile.
The cassette is heavier and in a bad location for weight
The cassettes are expensive
Only Sram do steel NW rings and no one does oval
At first everyone says no chain guide needed and then people start to realise they do actually help and for some reason a chain guide costs several times what you can pick up an FD for despite them being very simple.

The pro’s:
No matter how well set up your FD is there will always be that little niggle in your mind of will it shift clean, especially when you are in that bit of your ride where it is critical that it shifts properly.
Looks nicer
More room on bars

Weight wise I weighed my sunrace 11-46T on a Hope aluminium freehub against the Sram GX 10-42T on the Hope XD freehub the other day and the difference was almost 100g. I lose a bit of weight on the rings. Lose a shifter and lose a bit of chain length and the FD. BUT I will be gaining a chain guide when I get round to cutting one out of some scrap carbon fibre as I couldnt face spending £50-70 on one with an integral bash and could do with one where I ride, especially when lending my bike to my nephew. All in I doubt the weight is a big deal in the grand scale of things.

Cost wise it will be more per mile for upkeep I expect but I suspect the time cost in terms of cleaning and maintenance between rides will outweigh that one and at the end of the day if my bike costs £100-200 a year more to ride then I don’t give a fudge. More important things like enjoying the ride and less time spent fixing it.

On my 29er I have stuck with 3×10. It is my mile munching, long day XC epic ride bike (Solaris). My long travel carbon hardtail 26″ bike is a fun bike so have gone 1×11 on that.

My FS has ended up going 1×11 too but I will see how that goes. Maybe I will end up 2×11 with a 10-42T cassette! although might need tn SGS cage for that! I would be quite up for having a seat tube mounted shifter out of the way for climbing mode.

Why isn’t it a fair comparison? If Mike Hall had been using a 2x or 3x drivetrain he’d most likely have got it from the same source so the cost is moot.

If I were to head to an LBS or online store and source comparable components (i.e. not XTR vs SLX or whatever) for both 3x and 1x systems just how much difference do you think there’d be and which would be more expensive?

Changing *from* a 2x or 3x to 1x would probably mean a new cranks and a new chainring and a cassette (or expander cog depending on how you want to do it). Moving from 1x to 2x/3x would mean new cranks, a front mech and gear lever. A medium cage rear mech handles the Suntour 11-42T cassette with no problem so you don’t/shouldn’t need to replace that.

Both my 1x setups are about as cheap as you can do, I certainly can’t justify systems like the SRAM Eagle for a consumable. Lifetime is probably similar to any other drivetrain doing the same riding I do.

@andyl – I’ve no chain guide and have yet to drop a chain, the NW is the solution to that. A Solaris happens to be my mile muncher for Dales, Lakes, Peak, Wales.

tjagain – Member
IU wish I could find some data on weights. ( I have looked a bit) I cannot believe there is much if any weight savin

When I changed Mrs hoppy over I weighed everything that can off and went on, saving was about 250-300g changing from xt 2*10 to 1*10 on a 42t rear sprocket.

@whitestone…the OP asked about GOING 1x. Most discussions on STW is about converting from current 2x or 3x to 1x. So people are questioning it when they have a perfectly useable 2x or 3x. In my opinion cost is an important factor when deciding to replace a perfectly useable 2x or 3x system. I’ve yet to see a thread asking about going from 1x to 2x or 3x.

The chain line is terrible.
The chains are more fragile.
The cassette is heavier and in a bad location for weight
The cassettes are expensive
Only Sram do steel NW rings and no one does oval
At first everyone says no chain guide needed and then people start to realise they do actually help and for some reason a chain guide costs several times what you can pick up an FD for despite them being very simple.

Personal response….
Chainline – not causing issues here (over 3 years 1x and over a year 1×11)
Chains are lasting well (mix of sram levels)
Some cassettes are heavier but some is saved with a lighter freehub and I’m running lighter stronger wheels than I used to. The gx is also a lot lighter than the deore I took of an oem build.
Cassette price is closing in on 10sp for equivalent models
Getting enough life from my alu rings (except the manufacturing failure one that was replaced) to be happy – only 1 to replace not 2 or 3.
I needed a chain device on all my 2x setups, not needed or used a triple for 8 odd years. I don’t need one here on 1x though those that do seem to be fine with a simple top guide.

andyl – Member

Only Sram do steel NW rings and no one does oval

I take it you meant steel oval? Loads of people do oval.

Thing is though, who really cares? An alu narrow/wide lasts pretty well and you can get a top quality oval from Works for £20 so while longevity could be better, the running cost is still pretty trivial.

An alu narrow/wide lasts pretty well

I’m not sure if i agree with that 😆

This is a picture of mine after 200 miles use when it started dropping the chain all the time. What chain rings are people using and roughly what mileage are they getting out of them? Could there be anything to do with my set up causing the fast wear?

It’s a 34T Blackspire snaggletooth, XT chain, XT 11-42 cassette, XT rear mech & shifter. The chain was at 0.25 wear at 200 miles and has just got to 0.5 now after another 50 miles.

Hope T Rex did about 2000km still OK just went from 34 to 32
Race Face Direct Mt did about the same but snapped at the spider (might have been due to over tightening)
Blackspire on now and fully expect another 2000km

All mine was SRAM chains and running gear

MarkBrewer – Member

This is a picture of mine after 200 miles use when it started dropping the chain all the time. What chain rings are people using and roughly what mileage are they getting out of them? Could there be anything to do with my set up causing the fast wear?

It’s a 34T Blackspire snaggletooth, XT chain, XT 11-42 cassette, XT rear mech & shifter. The chain was at 0.25 wear at 200 miles and has just got to 0.5 now after another 50 miles.

That’s pretty spectacular chain wear, good job! Are all your rides in a blasting cabinet?

Not really sure how many miles i get from a ring. Long enough that I’m not sure 🙂 I’ve used superstar (worst but OK), works (best), absoluteblack and raceface (decent), none of them has lasted less than… Let’s say 500 miles at the absolute minimum.

Narrow wide worn-out-ness is a bit vague though isn’t it, the chain retention falls off but the ring still “works” in a way.

That’s pretty spectacular chain wear, good job! Are all your rides in a blasting cabinet?

With the exception of 1 wet ride at Swinley all my riding is on the Quantocks so the mud is basically grinding paste 😆

Just wondered if anything else could cause the fast wear or if it’s down to where I ride. I’d usually get 2-3 times that mileage on 9 or 10 speed!

Have just put a 32t nw on my hardtail with x9 on the back with a non clutch slx mech and a bionicon chain keeper.

Mark brewer – try the putoline chain wax. I think I improved chain life by 5x or so by using it. so much so I can’t remember when I last changed a chain

I changed the cassette, chains (I alternate two) and chain ring on my Spitfire last week. That drivetrain has done almost 2,500 miles in all weathers over the last few years. XT 11-36 cassette, Superstar 32t narrow-wide, KMC X10L gold chains.

Note that I’m using a standard 3x XT crank and an SLX medium cage clutch mech. No chain device needed. I think I need new jockey wheels too because I managed to lose the chain off the smallest sprocket going down Rim Dinger on Sunday – I can’t remember the last time I cleaned or lubed the mech pivots either, and that does make a difference to retention. Might need to adjust the clutch too, never done that either. But there is no way I’d have managed 10 runs of the reds and blacks at BPW without a ton of chain losses on a 2x or 3x setup and not once did I lose the chain on the front.

For the new cassette I went with a Sunrace 11-42. The expanded range was much appreciated when doing 6,500′ of climbing in FOD and Wales over two days followed by a day of uplift, but for my local riding 11-36 is fine.

Chain ring cost £20. Cassette £50. Chains £50 total (I think these chains last really well so are worth the extra cost). This is all 10 speed (lovely Saint shifter!)

It’s a 34T Blackspire snaggletooth

That’s probably your issue right there – every Blackspire ring I’ve ever used (4 or 5 over the years I think) has worn incredibly quickly. I’ve got a Works NW ring on one bike and a Superstar one on the other, both with over 1000km on, and nothing like the wear in your picture. I ride in some sandy/grindy areas too.

Not sure about actual weights but SRAM GX cassette felt noticeably lighter in the hand than a 10 spd SRAM 11-36 cassette. There may be one more sprocket on there, but each sprocket is made from alot less metal as they it is riveted into one item instead of 11 separate sprockets, so a lot of weight saving. The more expensive machine from solid versions would be even lighter. So the cassette is lighter, rear mech might be slightly heavier, you’re losing one cable run, one shifter and one front mech, and a lighter freehub if you go SRAM XD.

Not sure how the chainline is ‘terrible’. I’m inclined to say “So what?”. On what basis? aesthetics? Seems to work perfectly fine on my 1×10 and my new 1×11 setup – quiet, smooth, longer lasting than any 2 or 3x setup i’ve had. Not sure what the downsides of a ‘terrible chainline’ is. I think the pitfalls of chainline are hugely overstated. I’m quite happy to run the big ring and big cog on my road bike and have absolutely zero issues or downsides from doing so, and similarly before going 1x on the MTB I would be prepared to use the full width of the cassette in any of the chainrings.

The only potential downside to a 1x setup is the spacing between gears. You can get the range, near as damn it with a 1×11, and a greater range with Eagle, but if you’re fussy about the jump between ratio’s then a 1x setup will never do. I’m not, so 1x is all upside for me.

My Wolftooth NW chainring lasted really well too – I only changed it recently when going 1×11 from 1×10 as I went to a larger chainring. At the end of the day a chainring is an item that wears, even if you’re diligent about managing the chain replacements. You have two choices – run a 2 or 3x setup to share the load over other rings or just replace the chainring slightly more often. £40 – £70 every few years is hardly a big issue. Or you can get a Steel one which will probably outlive you.

Yeah, I think maybe chainline is just a hangover from all the indocrination about crossover gears when we were kids 😆 I never worried about using the full block in the middle ring so I didn’t start worrying once it was the only ring, and a few years on chainline’s never caused me any bother.

The only chainline issue I’ve experienced recently is the chain slipping down the block if back-pedalling in the largest one or two sprockets on 11-speed cassettes. It’s been widely reported across all types though there have been a few suggestions it gets less problematic when it wears in.

No one’s convincing me yet.
🙂

Xt front much and shifter is about ,300g with cables

Granny ring 20g 36t ring 50g
36t xt cassette 300g

32t N/w ring 35g
Sunrace 11-42 cassette 385g
MRP 1x guide 50g (I still need one on my fs, this not my hardtail)

So about 170- 220g saved, which isnt amazing but I look at it as a bonus,

Less chain links too
Proper 1x cranks and direct mount save more weight I suppose
sramm cassette could save considerably more weight but gettinh pricey
mine is just my 10 speed conversion.

The climbs are a bit tougher but I’ve done over 1000m climbing a day on mine plenty and itz fine.

Simpler especially for racing

Less places for mud to collect

Looks nicer

You forgot about your left thumb.

Look at how happy it is, compared to the right one.

not so much the left thumb but the brain 😉
MTBers can’t cope with multitasking and making the left and right hand do something coordinated 😉

I calculated about 220g saving for mine, but moving a good 100g worth of shifter into rotating mass. and then adding all that weight back on for an uppy downy post.

Seems ridiculous talking about all this weight weenie levels of mass on a FS bike where just the layout of suspension and different manufacturing will more likely have a bigger mass difference across the range. Even different tyres could eat up much of that saving. If it’s an ultra-light carbon XC race machine we’re talking about, then fair enough.

A quick question for those who are questioning the lack of range. How much time do you spend in either your lowest or highest gears? I reckon I spend less than 1% of any ride in either of them and on many rides the lowest gear I’ll use will be third from bottom. Most of the time I’m in the middle four sprockets.

Weight saving isn’t really the point of going 1x, if I wanted to save weight then I’d have a carbon fibre frame rather than a steel one. Even better and cheaper would be for me to lose weight. 😳

whitesstone – as above – at the weekends trip to glentress I used my bottom gear of 22/34 a few times on climbs – not for long no but I would have been walking a couple of times without it and I also used my top gear of 36/11 a fair amount pedalling hard.

Seems ridiculous talking about all this weight weenie levels of mass

It does. That’s why its generally only used by the antis as a straw man. Its really not the reason to change. Just a bonus

No one’s convincing me yet.

Is anybody trying? I swapped, I liked it, YMMV. I’ve ridden 3x for 20 years so I have given that a good go before the change

A quick question for those who are questioning the lack of range. How much time do you spend in either your lowest or highest gears?

Significantly more than 1%
Maybe 25%-30% in the granny, and one of the 2-3 largest sprockets.
By time, potentially more, since I’ve done rides that are 5 hours of winching up a mountain, and the bulk of a descent maybe half hour. But then I don’t think of descents being the main part of the ride, with ascents being the bit that get you to them. The whole ride is the ride, up, down, mountains, flats, roads, rockfests, the lot.

The very highest ratio less so, but big ring to 2nd smallest sprocket… quite a lot.

I didn’t change. I put 1×11 on one bike, kept 3×9 on another, which will probably get upgraded to 2x.

Putting 1x doesn’t mean you have to change. Put the right tool on the right bike for the right job.

There are at least two posts on this very thread claiming less weight as a main advantage.

whitestone – Member
How much time do you spend in either your lowest or highest gears?

Pretty much every ride, 3*9.

It’s very, very steep round here.
Top gear gets used on the fast, steep open tarmac links.
It’s fun.

Bottom gear gets you up things.
I like to spin and prefer to ride, not walk.
I like climbing, so a nice spread of lower and middle gears is great.

Not the youngest or fittest either, so pointless for me.

No objection to 1*, it’s great for some people, not everyone.

Presumably the likes of Chris Froome have Di2 to sort the shifting out on their oval chainrings? (Purely speculation, I’ve never tried oval rings on a road bike).

Oval with a front mech works just like circular with a front mech. Used to used oval on my roadbike, and they shift just nicely, just like round ones.
No Di2 necessary. Even work nicely with ye olde world SIS levers.
Don’t recall what Froome is or was using, but I could imagine he’s used both mechanical STI and Di2 (or SRAM equivalent?).

Need to play with the oval and round on one bike. Going up seemed fine, but just descents I’m not so sure, particularly when getting close to spinning out. Which of course is just under 3/4 of the speed that I’m used to.

scotroutes – Member
There are at least two posts on this very thread claiming less weight as a main advantage.

Makes up for the random crap people post having never used it 🙂

Mine does come in lighter, it was a nice little saving that offset the custom damper

1x systems – what are the benefits?

For me – I like it for several reasons.
For others – couldn’t give a shit…
😀

andytherocketeer – Member

…MTBers can’t cope with multitasking and making the left and right hand do something coordinated…

this IS true, which leads to the obvious conclusion that 2 crank arms is one crank arm too many…

A quick question for those who are questioning the lack of range. How much time do you spend in either your lowest or highest gears?

A whole lot of the time.
At least 10% in the granny gear probably more.
Biggest gear less often but still probably used every 2nd ride or so.
Like I said, i’d take more range if I could get it on that bike, not less.

so tried 1x for the first time on my own bike last night. I need an expander ring / cassette.

moving from xtr front mech and double.

much harder, top 2 gears lost. Not as quick to bulk shift (i had perfected the double thumb method) Bonuses no mud grinding through the etype mech / chain.

tbh its not as good as a 2x setup imo. The biggest issue for me was setting off on steep stuff. I was flipping over backwards and back pedaling for a tricky bit left me with the chain dropping.

Not looking forward to hebden on wednesday but will keep it for winter.

Mark brewer – try the putoline chain wax. I think I improved chain life by 5x or so by using it. so much so I can’t remember when I last changed a chain

That’s probably your issue right there – every Blackspire ring I’ve ever used (4 or 5 over the years I think) has worn incredibly quickly. I’ve got a Works NW ring on one bike and a Superstar one on the other, both with over 1000km on, and nothing like the wear in your picture. I ride in some sandy/grindy areas too

Thanks, that’s given me a bit of encouragement to give 1×11 another go. Maybe this time I’ll try a Sram chain (unless anyone has a better recommendation) instead of shimano as I’ve always got better wear out of them on 9 & 10 speed and I’ll try some putoline wax and a different brand of chainring.

If I’m still getting excessive wear after that it’ll definitely be back to 2×10.

I was flipping over backwards and back pedaling for a tricky bit left me with the chain dropping.

that apparently is a shimano feature they made it special on their 11sp
Not something I have ever experienced.
Also not sure why you were back pedalling on a steep start? My 1x is 1 gear harder at the lower end than my 2x, it wasn’t much of a change

*possibly / definitely because im crap