I went 1×10 because I really like anything that reduces maintenance/things to go wrong, if I can get away with it.

Same reason I don’t have a dropper post.

Really can’t do without the full suspension though. Rough riding really hurts my hands and wrists.

Anyway my 1×10 setup has really reduced the amount of things that go wrong. Used to get trouble with the front mech, shifter and cables all the time.

The only downside is the lowest gear feels quite hard on steep uphill blasts. But the highest gear (which allows pedaling up to 40kph) is more than enough.

When my front chain ring wears out I’m going to get a smaller one to get the low-end gearing back, at the expense of some high-end gearing, which I don’t need.

I spend far more of the ride in bottom gear than I do pedalling at 40kph on a smooth descent.

As I’m doing something like the Mary Townley Loop or the Hope Valley killer loop a very low gear is important.

Also not got the exact figures on cranks but going from 2x (excluding cranks and rings)
Original X9 2x with Grip Shift was 1.59kg (ex cables)
Same X9 with 1×10 Hope T-Rex Expansion to 11-40 1.19kg
SRAM GX 10-42 (ex XD freehub weight saving) 1.06 kg
On top of that I’ve dropped from 2x chain rings to 1 direct mount which is probably another 200g ish

May not seem like much but each one adds up to get a lighter bike and a nicer drivetrain with better shifting. Dropping tha chain device is also nice, I’d refit a small guide for racing but that is about it, no need currently to fit one.

When I go riding I’m always amazed how slow people are at riding up. I always pass others on the UPS and for ages I thought it was because everyone else was super unfit. It’s not though. It’s because everyone is on 1x these days and it makes people slower on the ups.

Is this win win for me? If you disagree then you’re implying it’s because I’m super fit. 😀

Just an observation. Probably going to get slated… 😀

I’d be slow on the ups even on a motorcycle 😳

@ulysse..did you have a good day yesterday?

Yeah and no, 34 front 42 rear feels like the old granny 32 ratio so climbing felt like normal, buuuuuuuut…. I’d skipped dinner after I’d met you, so I dunno if I was near bonking by 4pm,and also a god awful southerly wind arrived that was strong enough to stop me dead in my tracks in 42 tooth! I turned back off Rooley moor Road at that point and went back down to Lee, where the wind got me again on the southern cliff face.. Much down gears back to 42 tooth and still stopped dead in my tracks to the point where I had to Flintstone the bike by sitting on the saddle and using my feet to “walk” the bike in to a more sheltered point!
All in all results were good but I think in retrospect I would have been better off using the chain ring you gave me for the first time out experiments, especially on such unforgiving terrain.
Never dropped a chain though!

So yeah I’m gonna stick with 1x and experiment with chainrings, and try and build up the quads a bit more to get me through where I’d usually have dropped to granny ring

Saw a number of queries on this thread about weight saving – I made it about 270g going from 2x to 1x….

Seeing as we’re posting weight charts now…I chose to go 2×10 on my hardtail as that is the bike I have the most fun airtime on. I really like a light rear wheel for this, and 2×10 although slightly heavier overall is 150-200g lighter at the rear axle with a 11-36 cassette and a non clutch rear mech.

Oh yeah, Eden, if you thought the bike was a filthy mess yesterday… 😉

It will be getting a bit of tlc later today though, let’s hope it’s not allergic to soap!

I run 1×11 now after running 2x and 3x until recently.

1x is easier to clean, less cluttered and mechanically simpler. All of which I like.

I do ride to the off road trails I ride though and do miss the big ring on occasion.1x is also pretty costly still in comparison.

Anyway, there is no right or wrong choice.
Depends on what you ride, how you ride and budget etc.

Find it a bit hard to argue about really…. But this is STW after all!

When I go riding I’m always amazed how slow people are at riding up.

Me too

I always pass others on the UPS and for ages I thought it was because everyone else was super unfit. It’s not though.

Oh, it really is – that and running tyres that have similar weight and rolling resistance to a tractor.

It’s because everyone is on 1x these days and it makes people slower on the ups.

Dont be daft, 1x makes people quicker up as A) it forces people to put in more effort to keep the larger gear turning, and B) its (a little) lighter.

Well my PX order has arrived and I’m concerned about my future Strava segment performance, 1x chainrings are so un-aerodymically wide (and that’s just comparing it to the stainless chainring in the same order)! 😯 😆

of course every ride is a race
should definitely be concerned

For me, I came into mtb from the downhill side of things. We pushed up and wanged down on dh bikes or burly bikes at least.
Dh bikes have single rings and chain devices. All my friends bikes were built with single rings and chain devices.
When 160mm type bikes got better, we started riding up too. We never changed to 2x as it was always downhill focussed so chain devices were the norm.

Ime people who got into mtb more on the xc side of things were very used to having lots of rings and have stuck with it.

I did have a 2x bike once, a Giant Reign, but always hated the tinny rattle of the front mech and dropped chains so first fitted a stinger, then eventually 1x.

There’s no right or wrong and each option (thank God for options) has its benefits.

I much prefer 1x so all my bikes get built like that. I’d be just as chilled uphill on a 3x. Makes no odds.

Yup, mud and front mechs are always an issue for me hence liking the 1X option. Convenience and less maintenance as I see it.

Well my PX order has arrived and I’m concerned about my future Strava segment performance, 1x chainrings are so un-aerodymically wide

That’s good though. Means you can use your standard width steel chainring bolts instead of ordering some special thin ones. Everyone forgets the bolts, so this solves that problem. 🙂

edenvalleyboy – Member

When I go riding I’m always amazed how slow people are at riding up. I always pass others on the UPS and for ages I thought it was because everyone else was super unfit. It’s not though. It’s because everyone is on 1x these days and it makes people slower on the ups.

Doesn’t seem to slow Nino down… but how does not having crawler gears make you slower on the ups? If I had a lower gear I’d use it to go slower, I can’t imagine when having lower gears would speed me up. Unless you climb in the 44/11 gear in which case, have at it!

The 2 things that really influence climbing speed are fitness, and intent. I’m pretty fit but I’m generally in no hurry.

I suppose there’s going to be some correlations here… 1x isn’t just for #enduro but that’s where it’s got the best penetration, so that probably ties into “winch and plummet” riders that really don’t give a crap about the climb. And also it’ll probably align with people with big hoofing tyres, because if you’re all about the descents, you won’t sabotage that just to get to the top a minute faster. If you pass me while I’m dawdling on a climb on my remedy with its 2.5 shorty, well, good for you 😆

Northwind – Member

I’m pretty fit skinny enough to get away with shonky fitness, but I’m generally in no hurry.

edited to suit (me).

why tire myself out flogging up a (usually dull) climb, only to make the fun bit harder?

if i want to cane it up a hill (and sometimes i really do), then i go for a run, or out on the road bike.

I’m generally in a hurry but too unfit to implement it.. :roll:.

flogging up a (usually dull) climb, only to make the fun bit harder

the up is just as much a part of the ride as a bit going down
more time to take in and admire the scenery and surroundings when going up
it’s all fun, apart from maybe the ride thru town at each end to/from the proper part of the ride

^^

Not much of a view on my night rides 😉

Although I usually ride quicker when I’m out on my own at night as there’s always the chance a mad axeman is right behind me on an e-bike 😯

@Northwind…I’m writing from the perspective of someone who has run 1x, 2x and 3x.

Also, don’t take my post too seriously. 😀

I always pass others on the UPS and for ages I thought it was because everyone else was super unfit. It’s not though.
Oh, it really is – that and running tyres that have similar weight and rolling resistance to a tractor.

It’s because everyone is on 1x these days and it makes people slower on the ups.
Dont be daft, 1x makes people quicker up as A) it forces people to put in more effort to keep the larger gear turning, and B) its (a little) lighter.

Good point. The ratios are pretty similar with a 32t on the front so that is not the reason people are slow up hills. As pointed out it’s the combination of tyres and suspension plus a small element of fitness. Most people are in no rush to get up. It’s not XC.

To me the biggest things are. Less faff, less to go wrong, up is up and down is down sequential shifting.

I have a road bike. I really dislike shifting down at the rear and the front when starting to climbing. If I only shifted down at the front I’d be in too high a gear to start with. Must say I’m tempted by Di2 thinking about it.

As for being fashion victims I’ve been riding mountain bikes since 1990 or something as a kid racing sprogs. I’ve seen pretty much everything there has been to do with bike development. And I can honestly say we’ve never had it so good so to dismiss us as fashion victims suggests you must be riding on the first bike you ever had, as surely only idiots upgrade their bikes if it isn’t broken?

Dunno.
In the US market, I’d say they’ll be tripping over themselves to get on the next fashionable bandwagon.
UK not quite so bad as US for that.

And MTB has always had a lot more fashionable trick bits market than road cycling. Was all the rage back the in the 90’s to replace all the bolts with fancy anodised ones, for example.

Some bandwagons may be progress, others are more marketing (eg 650b).

kayak23 – Member

There’s no right or wrong and each option (thank God for options) has its benefits.

I much prefer 1x so all my bikes get built like that. I’d be just as chilled uphill on a 3x. Makes no odds.

Stop with the reasonable, thoughful posts. Pick a side and be a dick about it

The only downside to the 1x “fashion” is 1x only frames. Sure: “sell” a bike as 1x but to design one as 1x only is short sighted.

If a bike I fancied getting was 2x or 3x then I’d get it so I’m not a 1x fanatic/fanboi but I do prefer the 1x system as it suits me. Going 1x does take some commitment and you need to ride it for a few months before it becomes easy – I certainly struggled for the first month at least.

I’m with Whitestone on this; I think the focus on 1x-only frame designs and the associated criticism of brands (Cotic, Scott) who retain the front mech mount is just shortsighted and insular. Some of us who ride in lumpy places actually need drivetrains with a wide range of closer gears and a rear mech that isn’t quite so vulnerable to being ripped off by boulders.
Claiming that bike design has leapt forward with 1x is unhelpful, as these very short rear ends or differing pivot placements always create further compromises somewhere in the design. Plus there are plenty of bikes out there that take a 2x and ride as well as any…
As far as I can see, 1×11 has little or no weight advantage over 2x, as the (excruciatingly expensive) new 11 speed cassettes are huge and heavy, added to which is the extra weight and vulnerability of the longer rear mechs needed to handle the chain.
I did have a good chuckle at the situation recently on a very well attended fat bike ride, where just as many of the 1x bikes dropped their chains on fast rooty terrain as the 2x did. This effectively quashes the better chain retention myth, at least for fat bikes in Tentsmuir forest. At least on a 2x, sometimes you’ll be able to pedal it back on. 1x works for some and not others; I’ll not be buying a new frame that can’t take a front mech.

That’s 1 reason why I bought Cotic. It can take a front mech if it needs to, and the non-pressfit BB is a bonus. If I want to, I can swap from 1x to 2x simply by bolting on a granny, a mech and a shifter. I think the Shimano 1x XT crank even works as 2x.

Options are good 🙂

@highlandman On your ride were the 1x bikes using NW chainrings? I’ve not had a single dropped chain when using one. The only time I’ve had a dropped chain using 1x was when I fubarred my cranks the night before a ride so borrowed the 3x crankset off my wife’s bike and rode with the chain in the middle ring. I also had the clutch mechanism “off”. Engaged the clutch and I was OK after that.

highlandman – Member

As far as I can see, 1×11 has little or no weight advantage over 2x, as the (excruciatingly expensive) new 11 speed cassettes are huge and heavy, added to which is the extra weight and vulnerability of the longer rear mechs needed to handle the chain.

Weirdly unsinkable myths, these.

My 1×11 cassette as mentioned in this thread is 260g, lighter than most standard cassettes. It was expensive, pretty much the same as an XTR, but they’re either expensive or heavy, not both.

And the rear mech is the same length and weight as I would be using with a 2x setup, because it’s the same mech. You don’t need a longer mech for 1x.

Re retention, I don’t think I’ve ever dropped the chain on my fatbike with 1x, while riding at least- I’ve bounced it off in crashes and throwing it over fences and the like. And it gets ridden on rougher, harder stuff than most. I’ve done it a few times on the #enduro bike- but still better chain retention than a double with a bottom chain device and bash. Since I added a tiny wee top guide to that, the chain hasn’t come off once

highlandman – Member

….and a rear mech that isn’t quite so vulnerable to being ripped off by boulders.

1x mech is either the same length as 2x/3x, or shorter.

This effectively quashes the better chain retention myth

Highlandman sez it, must be true.

If your cassette is 11-44/46 or whatever, have a good look at where your bottom jockey wheel is relative to the ground in a low gear. They’re significantly longer/lower than the 2×9 & 10s that I use.
For a given ratio that is appropriate to the terrain, a 1x mech will be further down, closer to the ground than a 2x.
As for chains coming off NW rings- yes, most or all of the 1x setups were these. Several 1x owners commented on their frustration over this problem, as they’d hoped for much better.
Northwind, I pay about £30 for most cassettes at that weight. £200 or so is almost obscene for a consumable item!

I use a short cage mech on my 1x bike, the shortest I could get away with on 3x was medium cage.

I do have a problem with NW rings, though- as soon as mine got worn the chain started falling off without a top guide. I put a top guide on, but that defeats the point of a NW ring. It’s not the game changer it’s made out to be.

@highlandman – agree with you re cassettes, £200 is just ridiculous (and obscene) for a consumable. I use an XT cassette with expander, the expander has lasted for 3 cassettes so far but I’ll swap it at the next cassette change.

The only problem I’ve had with a NW chainring was chain suck when it got worn after about a year and 2500-3000Km of riding.

my saving was only 222g
but then I didn’t buy a cassette that cost more than the (XT) 1x groupset
I think I’ll take note of Seth’s Bike Hacks latest vid on youtube, and take a PRD, rather than reducing the weight of my wallet to reduce the bike by a few more grams 😉

only dropped chains due to mechs not being properly adjusted, which is not exactly a difficult job

whitestone – Member
The only downside to the 1x “fashion” is 1x only frames. Sure: “sell” a bike as 1x but to design one as 1x only is short sighted.

I already know folk who have ruled out specific frames because they can’t take a front mech. This more than anything else might be the factor that sees this design restriction rolled back on 2018/19 models

Do I really have to remove the drive-side crank to fit the 34T On One Ringmaster?

Is this a common thing to have to do?

The default 38T came off easily enough by undoing the bolts, rotating the ring a bit and then passing it over the crank and pedals, the 34T won’t slip behind the crank bolt holes, even tried removing the 24T inner ring and still no dice.

What I thought was going to be an easy swap is rapidly turning into another Krypton Factor mental agility test! 😆

OK so we’re making progress on mech length, looks like.

highlandman – Member

If your cassette is 11-44/46 or whatever, have a good look at where your bottom jockey wheel is relative to the ground in a low gear. They’re significantly longer/lower than the 2×9 & 10s that I use.
For a given ratio that is appropriate to the terrain, a 1x mech will be further down, closer to the ground than a 2x.
As for chains coming off NW rings- yes, most or all of the 1x setups were these. Several 1x owners commented on their frustration over this problem, as they’d hoped for much better.
Northwind, I pay about £30 for most cassettes at that weight. £200 or so is almost obscene for a consumable item!

On mech position- it’s not as simple as you think. Yes, on a big cassette it hangs slightly lower in the low gears. But you also spend more time in the lower range of the cassette, which draws the mech inbound, moving it more out of harms way.

In the highest gear, where the mech’s furthest out and most exposed, my mech body’s actually higher (10t vs 11t), and then absolutely identical to an 11-32 9-speed cassette all the way to the lowest 2 gears, assuming the same chainring size. If you shift into the granny though, then for equivalent gears the mech is again back out to the right of the bike and more in harm’s way. So sometimes it’s a little better, sometimes it’s a little worse, and often it’s exactly the same.

The end result is that it’s situational and could favour either system depending on exactly what’s happening, but there’s no major difference in either direction

Re weight and cost… My cassettes cost just over £100 as I said, not £200, who buys parts at RRP? That’s still expensive, but it’s not as much as you think (and depending on your kit choice may be offset by cheaper chainrings) If you’re getting a 260g cassette for £30 I think you must be using 11-28s? Which isn’t really comparable and almost certainly gives you a narrower gear range…

Or, if you want to do it with an expander, they add about 50g and cost about £30, not a crippling weight increase or cost. Or a sunrace cassette, £50 and 360g- not light nor expensive.

But the actual point; you said they’re expensive and heavy. I think now you’ve got to admit, that’s wrong- some are expensive, some are heavy, but there’s no reason to have both together.

Re all your people on this ride dropping the chain… TBH even 2x dropping is rare so this xc ride where not just 1x but multi ring riders were constantly dropping chains is odd. Obviously neither system is performing as it should, so what’s the common factor that caused so many different drivetrains to perform badly? Lots of really cloggy icy mud or something?

scotroutes – Member

I already know folk who have ruled out specific frames because they can’t take a front mech. This more than anything else might be the factor that sees this design restriction rolled back on 2018/19 models

Aye, I reckon so too. The real world differences seem mostly small and they’re not even all necessarily benefits. My nasty cynical feeling is that mostly it makes it easier for bike designers, not better for bike owners.

Yes, frozen claggy mud must be the reason for my 2x 10 system dropping or sucking, it was fine all spring and summer, and most of the early autumn, it’s not due to wear as my chain is showing no appreciable stretch on the park tool, the cassette and rings look almost as new beside scratching to the anodizing.
I’ve gone 1x as it might be rare to drop or suck the chain, but when it does, it’s on a technical climb or a transition from a down to a rocky/ gnarr flat, very often in the pitch dark and miles from anywhere.
I could muddle on with the 2x over the bad months as I did the other night by remaining in the granny ring once I’d got up to the tops, and yeah, that was a great ride if a little less hustle on the downs. But if I’m going to do that, why not go the whole hog, find a compromise chain ring and not have the chain dropping in the back of my mind

Turns out I was being a numpty earlier, the Ringmaster would install without removing the drive-side crank, good job as crank extractor that came with the Jobsworth Shimano specific 18-piece toolkit refused to extract the crank!

So I then removed the crank extractor, only for the driving “pin” to stay inside the crank, thankfully it worked lose with some gentle persuasion from a pair of pliers!

No doubt someone will now tell me that the crank extractor in that kit is not designed for square taper cranks! 😕

Couldn’t see a dimple on the Ringmaster, so lightly bolted it in place, only to discover a tiny dimple (compared to that on the Lasco rings) and as luck would have it, was not lined up with the crank. So counted to ten and adjusted alignment.

So I’m now basically set for 1x, will give the chain a clean and re-lube in the morning (plus think about chain length adjusting). Another hard lesson in bike maintenance has left me mentally drained and with sore hands. 😆