MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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Overall efficiency was 2.3 miles/kw.hr
I have an 850 mile trip to do in the end of January, which will cost me £122 in petrol based off 44mpg and the Costco fuel price from today of 139.9p.
If you're pulling 2.3 miles per kWh, based on charging at home on my tariff of 32p per kWh, and 850 miles divided by 2.3mi/kWh, you'd need 369kwh to complete the distance, meaning a cost of £118 for the electric for the journey.
Am I missing something here? EV charging tarrifs perhaps?
Am I missing something here?
That 400bhp ICE SUVs don't generally do 44mpg?
Am I missing something here? EV charging tarrifs perhaps?
Find a large 400bhp ICE SUV that’ll do 44mpg.
@simondbarnes - wash your mouth out with soap and water. Or Diesel.
@airvent - your personal cost will vary with several factors. For me it’s as follows 1 - I can charge at work at 4p/kw.hr - this massively helps and means short ish trips are all but free. 2 - range - my ETron has a fairly short range of about 200 miles (varies summer to winter of course) so beyond this I am charging as roadside fast chargers 3 - various tariff / subscription options / the ETron comes with a years subscription to the IONITY transit tariff which gives 32p/kw/hr and I deliberately go via IONITY chargers where I can.
TLDR 1 - the longer the journey I make the more it costs per mile. Equally once my new car arrives (a BMW i4) the distance at which this kicks in will increase.
TLDR 2 - using only motorway chargers or EV charge rates electric cars cost roughly similar amounts of money to fuel as ICE cars these days. To be fair mine is massively inefficient and should be compared to something like a 4 litre v8 Range Rover than a small batch but hopefully you know what I mean.
If it's a 100 grand car why bother getting an electric one at all? If someone can afford a car that costs £100,000 I'd assume fuel costs aren't an issue so they might as well have bought a 3 year old Mercedes G Wagon...
I had simplistically assumed lower air inlet temperatures giving higher air density would increase power and efficiency – is that not the case?
That can be true. However they engine mass itself (block, heads, manifolds etc) will all absorb energy as they heat up so the engines efficiency will be fairly poor until this has reached equilibrium.
EVs have a similar thing too but for a different reason as the cabin heating requires “extra” power unlike an ICE car where that is just using waste heat from the engine. One of the reasons why using ore heating is good for efficiency in an EV if it’s done while on mains power.
If it’s a 100 grand car why bother getting an electric one at all? If someone can afford a car that costs £100,000 I’d assume fuel costs aren’t an issue so they might as well have bought a 3 year old Mercedes G Wagon…
for someone buying a car at that price with their own money I doubt that running costs are factor. From a selfish point of view I couldn’t see any point in an EV at all- far easier to chuck petrol at a large engine.
For me, personally (it’s not a £100k car by the way- to be fair not far off though at just over £70k rrp), there are two factors.
1 - it’s a company car, so there are massive tax implications that more or less force the choice, but more importantly…
2 - this is hopefully paving the way for more accessible and sustainable transport options. It take people using chargers to build the business case to build more etc etc. I hope that this mindset also exists for some of those buying EVs with their own money.
@airvent (by the way, I’m not picking on you - you’ve just raised some really important questions that I think are extremely relevant to uptake of EVs thanks for the conversation).
I just noticed that your 850 mile trip cost rough calc if based on your home elec cost. The bad news is that unless you’ve got a subscription to a charge network (that has a monthly cost once the Abu trial period is over) fast chargers are typically a lot higher cost than that - think more like 65p+ some are £1. You get quite good at a scrooge-like approach to sniffing out charge opportunities! On the flip side on an EV tariff you can charge for much less overnight so that would help for some usage.
In short it’s not ideal yet. Fulm disclosure - if it was my own personal money and the company car thing had not happened I would have just replaced my old diesel Avensis with a slightly newer one when the time came.
Been away for the weekend and we took the Ionic 5 fully charged. 8 o'clock yesterday morning at -2 degrees it was on 75% and showing 165 as the range when I would have expected something in the 190/200s. Moving carparks and 5 miles of odds and sods the range rose back up to 180. Left the car in an underground car park last night and topped up it back to 100%. Bitterly cold (0/-1) but the 50 mile trip home tonight equated to 19% (about normal).
So what I have learnt this school day is - The start up range is drastically affected if parked in the open, the initial warm up brings it back to reasonable efficiency pretty quickly and if you leave from a cold environment where there isn't direct frost exposure things seem to be within normal margins of variability.
Its only got 2k on the clock so still new I suppose. Continue to love it.
[i]Find a large 400bhp ICE SUV that’ll do 44mpg.[/i]
A car rather than an SUV but 600bhp instead of 400. Close enough?
Mileage, time and speed were all zeroed at the start of the journey. Southampton to Manchester, mixed motoring leaving just after lunch
Roughly twice the CO2 per km over its lifetime than an EV. That AMG is exactly the sort of car its hard to justify if you have a thought for the kind of planet people will live on in the future. For that money the new buyer can buy a fabulous EV that will be cheaper to run even at current electricity prices. And people are still buying ostentatious gas guzlers. That's a problem for everyone with kids or a few years to live themselves.
Mixing up economics and “doing the right thing” is both messy and is “looking at it all wrong”, but is ultimately the lever that will get most people to change behaviours so does matter. As I said earlier much as I like the idea of where EVs will take as and am quite invested in this from a professional stance (I is an engineer) I wouldn’t buy one as a purely personal purchase right now.
That said, if we are going to resort to mpg willy waving (and why not, it’s fun) then in purely financial terms a Diesel would have had to do 105mpg to cost me the same as my EV did this weekend.
If it’s a 100 grand car why bother getting an electric one at all? If someone can afford a car that costs £100,000 I’d assume fuel costs aren’t an issue so they might as well have bought a 3 year old Mercedes G Wagon…
Er because they want to do the right thing and lead the way to the decarbonisation of road transport.
I've given up trying to argue with the "my diesel does 70 mpg and costs less to run than your EV" or the "but they're too expensive" (how much did flat screen TVs cost when they first hit the shops vs now?) or the "its better for the environment if I run my Euro 4 diesel into the ground" or the "but all that lithium mining is trashing the environment" (3 million tonnes per annum of lithium will be mined in 2030 vs 15 billion tonnes of fossil fuels per annum right now) or the "I need to tow my caravan 500 miles non-stop crew. If someone is genuinely interested in moving to an EV I'll answer their questions otherwise I'll just say "if you don't want one don't buy one" because the argument has been decided and by 2035, if governments stick to their policies, they won't be able to buy a new ICE car in western Europe.
https://ondigitalmarketing.com/learn/odm/foundations/5-customer-segments-technology-adoption/
None of this is new, people just need to realise where they sit on the product life cycle.
Am I missing something here? EV charging tarrifs perhaps?
2.3 miles per kWh is shockingly bad. And yes, you should be on an EV tariff if you are doing even modest miles.
When I went to Scotland in September it cost me about £150 in diesel and it would have cost me about half that if I'd taken the EV because I'd start with a full battery. However, normal usage where I can charge at home costs us a tenth of what diesel would, and that's most of our driving. Even with a short commute it's saving us £100/mo.
Re winter miles - drive into town today at 3 degrees C and got 4.1 m/kWh instead of the usual 5, but it's a short trip of about 6 miles. On the way back we were cold so I tried whacking on the heated seats and heater just to see. We got about 3.9, but the best part was that the air got fully warm within a minute or two. Far better than any ICE I've been in. Car was toasty in no time.
The car can use waste heat from the motor and battery for the heater, so the faster you are driving the less the gap between hot and cool weather is. In town driving there's less waste heat so it has touse.more battery power for heat.
2.3 miles per kWh is shockingly bad.
He’s not wrong, it’s rubbish efficiency! One of the reasons why I didn’t choose this ETron car but something far more efficient. The i4 should be more around the 4 miles per kWh type range, I.E closer to molgrips numbers above.
The variation in miles per kWh even between drivers is amazing, while researching the MG4 I watched a number of videos and some of them had awful efficiency, then when I took one out in Friday's freezing conditions I managed to get around 4 miles per kWh on a mixed dual carriage way and M6 run.
Distance driven and speed make a huge difference. I see a range of 1.1 and 2.8. The car automatically stores a summary of every single run - resets when keyed off for about 30 mins to an hour. It’s downloadable so I’ll chuck into excel later on and see what it looks like if you plot distance driven vs consumption- I’m expecting a rough curve which changes over the months from summer to winter.
He’s not wrong, it’s rubbish efficiency! One of the reasons why I didn’t choose this ETron car but something far more efficient. The i4 should be more around the 4 miles per kWh type range, I.E closer to molgrips numbers above.
which eTron is it ? I have an order in through Tusker for a Q4 e-tron, the 50 quattro model, and it has a quoted figure of 3.5 miles per kWh which I though was ok ?
@ianc - mine is the original ETron (just about to be refreshed as the Q8 ETron. The Q4 is a fair bit smaller, and a more recent design so I would hope manages better efficiency.
Bjorn Nylands YouTube channel will have data on this, and he even makes his spreadsheet of his tests public if you search for it.
[i]That AMG is exactly the sort of car its hard to justify if you have a thought for the kind of planet people will live on in the future. For that money the new buyer can buy a fabulous EV that will be cheaper to run even at current electricity prices.[/i]
No EV available in 2007.
I didn't, and wouldn't, buy it new. I am simply re-using someone else's folly as that is currently better than scrapping a fully functional and efficient vehicle for another newer version of the same with batteries.
Thought about the impact on the planet is always a % game and too big and contentious for this thread I feel so I will avoid provoking.
Does that AMG speedo go to 320mph?
Huge school bragging rights.
320 is fior when it is showing KMH. The car is limited to 186mph unless you get the secret unlock but you need to make sure you have the proper tyres etc then so I live with the limitation
My eUp! did about 4 miles/kWh with the temperature around freezing. It would have been nearly 6m/kWh in warm weather. The difference is probably half from battery efficiency and half from heater use. I was dressed for outdoors so only used the heater to demist the screen.
It does also seem to charge less efficiently; the Zappi is feeding it 1.4kWh which would usually result the charge increasing by about 1.3kWh, it's noticeably slower when it's cold. So the running cost is increased by loss of efficiency in both battery to drive and mains to battery. I assume the loss is as heat, the number of electrons in the chemical reactions is fixed.
utter nonsense 🙄No EV available in 2007.
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🙂
I didn't include 'lifestyle' vehicles
Premium, heavy EVs sold on lease deals so the consumer changes for a new one every three years doesn't sound environmentally friendly. Have we all slept walked into this profit-driven model the VMs are pushing on us? The transition to EVs purely for environmental reasons would mean we'd need to adapt to motoring on a very different scale than the choice, luxury and freedom we've grown accustomed to. Has the world been sold a pup? (apologies if this has been argued previously)
Premium, heavy
EVscars sold on lease deals so the consumer changes for a new one every three years doesn’t sound environmentally friendly.
Fixed that for you. It's not just an EV issue - the whole car market works this way.
Thought about the impact on the planet is always a % game and too big and contentious for this thread I feel so I will avoid provoking.
Ta. I agree that given the embedded energy getting a few more km out of an old car is no bad thing, and second-hand buyers will go on doing that out of choice or necessity. The sooner the supply of new ICEs dries up the better though. For our health in the short term and our existance in the long term.
The sooner the supply of new ICEs dries up the better though. For our health in the short term and our existance in the long term.
I'm not so sure about this these days. Expecting some interesting (relatively speaking) developments in synthetic fuels in the next few years. ICE that emits unicorn farts versus EV is an interesting choice
[i]The sooner the supply of new ICEs dries up the better though. For our health in the short term and our existence in the long term[/i] - Well I am doing my best to convert old cars into things where there is no-one else on the planet who will want to own them.
I feel arguing about EV vs ICE as 'solutions' is that they are resolving the wrong problem. It took a global pandemic to force lots of businesses to embrace technology and allow home based work. I don't have any facts to support this but I suspect that the Pandemic had a massive environmental benefit in terms of immediate reduced travel and long term change to working models.
"You don't get to lightbulbs by making better candles" - not sure where I heard this but seems to fit
Look at the ATI FlyZero reports if you want a real understanding of synthetic fuels. It's all a myth once we go beyond tickling the edges of a few % blended. The power required to create it erodes a vast amount of the benefits and even when it's all favourably totted up, you still can't hide the fact the the emissions are still all emitted in the wrong place, impossible to capture and significantly more harmful. You'd be almost better running everything on electrics, burning fossil fuels in power stations and developing carbon capture at source of emission.
The context for FlyZero is SAF, but it's basically the same regardless of use/source.
Expecting some interesting (relatively speaking) developments in synthetic fuels in the next few years. ICE that emits unicorn farts versus EV is an interesting choice
I work for a large (Fortune 200) multinational in the power generation business (large industrial engines and generators, plus "bus" size and up automotive). We're working on fuel cells, battery electric and combustion of alternative fuels all in parallel - not a secret, and it's industry wide, not just us.
There will be multiple solutions and it's not a one-size fits all solution, at least not for the foreseeable future.
Add in different ways of using power (e.g. telecommute instead of physically travelling, smart grids with localized storage etc) and things get more interesting still.
but I suspect that the Pandemic had a massive environmental benefit in terms of immediate reduced travel and long term change to working models.
You'd be very wrong. All the pandemic proved was that habits are hard to break and the corporate culture defines work practices.
Air travel was predicted to take 5y to recover. It did so in 18m (excluding China).
Business travel was supposed to be dead. It's almost fully booked.
Work from home was supposed to remove the need for personal transport, but road journeys went UP toward the end of the pandemic and are at an all time high.
People stopped wearing masks and washing hands as soon as they possibly could, despite other viruses and MORE Covid.
NOTHING changed as a result of the pandemic save for the divide between rich and poor expanding even further
The energy crisis will have a much greater long term effect than the Pandemic WRT changes in behavior. People are finally aware just how much they use and how much it can cost. Prior to the energy crisis, how many people even knew what a kWh of electric cost, never mind what in their house actually consumed that power?
The good thing about electric cars is that it's instantly relatable to home use as it's a directly comparable unit of use.
Hydrogen, synthetic fuels, fuel cells and batteries are all ways of storing energy that is then used for something - in this case driving vehicles.
They all take energy to create and to be environmentally beneficial that energy needs to electricity generated in a zero carbon way.
So what will drive the the solution is ultimately which is the most efficient (and so profitable) way of storing and selling that energy
Premium, heavy EVs sold on lease deals so the consumer changes for a new one every three years doesn’t sound environmentally friendly.
Friendlier than premium heavy ICE vehicles sold on lease deals. Due to the cost of batteries EV manufacturers have to start at the higher end of the market where the margins are sufficient to absorb the higher manufacturing costs. This will get better with time. Already the MG4 EV can be had for £26k which isn't bad considering a basic Fiesta costs about £20k
Expecting some interesting (relatively speaking) developments in synthetic fuels in the next few years.
E-fuels will only ever be niche to keep vintage ICE on the road at weekends due to the huge inefficiencies in their manufacture.
Wind turbine/solar farm to wheel efficiency for an EV is 70-80%. For a fuel cell EV its 20%. Half that again for e-fuel burnt in a combustion engine. So if we are to drive on eFuels we'll need 7-8 times more renewables than simple sticking to EV.
Business travel was supposed to be dead. It’s almost fully booked.
But has capacity reduced? I work for a very large company and none of us are travelling anywhere. Customers aren't even asking any more.
a question please on tariff's. We are on a standard Scottish Power tariff and have an EV coming in the Spring. The nice chap from ChargedEV is putting in an Easee charge point as I type (they had a cancellation !). The Scottish Power website is pretty poor at explaining tariff change options, and it is, as ever, impossible to speak to them. So, knowing that someone reading this will have been through similar, keen for your knowledge, please !
I'm on Octopus Go. The cheap rate is between 0030 and 0430, and it takes about 2 days to completely charge the car from empty at those times (7kW charger). I think at the moment it's 12p/41p so you'd need to check the maffs quite carefully to see whether it's worth it for you, especially if you can charge at work etc for free.
Relatively lucky as I'm on the original tariff (7.5p/38p) and also have house batteries, so 99% of my consumption is at the low rate.
Their customer service has been pretty good on the one time I needed to call (they didn't generate any bills for my first three months).
https://share.octopus.energy/cute-dingo-92
If you use my referral code we get £100 credit to split between us.
Octopus uses a form of black magic to 'talk' to the car and charger via the app and schedules your overnight sessions to use the cheaper hours (probably linked to grid demand).
Octopus are so far ahead of the other providers in terms of the interaction between the app, home devices and the grid demand.
Never had an issue with them, the installed smart meters or the supply. Highly recommended.
Octopus Go gives you cheap electricity overnight so you can set your charger or car to charge then - and you can also do other things like run the washing machine or immersion heater.
Intelligent Octopus requires a supported car or charger (Ohme is currently the only one IIRC) that gives you cheap electricity overnight BUT also will charge your car at any time they choose, ensuring that it's ready at the time you have specified e.g. 100% by 7am weekdays etc. And ALL the energy going into the car is charged at the low rate regardless of when it happens. This is so that they can plan ahead divert excess energy into your car when it suits them (as well as you) e.g. on a sunny and windy day.
Both Ohme and Octopus are highly recommended.
very helpful, thanks, charger is an Easee so will look at Octopus Go once I have a confirmed delivery date for car
What car is it?
We can currently connect with Tesla, Jaguar, Land Rover, Ford,
and Volkswagen (excluding ID models), OR any car that uses an Ohme charger.
^^^ Audi Q4 etron
Think I'll join this thread now as 8 have an MG5 coming at the end of January.
Quite excited.
Actually not sure if by VW they mean VAG. You'd think they'd all use the same system...
Yeah, I wondered about that too…
My podpoint charger works with intelligent.
It's such a clever system.
Well, my company car scheme just opened again, no PHEV/HEV, no BEVs, all preconfigured with high value options (to improve resale value).
So, another diesel but with the 48V light hybrid system on it.
But nearly £15k worth of options i didn't really want.
On the plus side, there were plenty of cars cheaper and more frugal than a fully loaded petrol SUV at ~£850 a month and 35mpg...
On the plus side, there were plenty of cars cheaper and more frugal than a fully loaded petrol SUV at ~£850 a month and 35mpg…
jeez, that's a load of outlay ! Our Tusker deal at work would just about get a Taycan for that ! 🙂 well maybe not, but would more than cover a long range Tesla or similar.
The SUV in question costs a little more than a base Taycan and we're selling every single one we make at pretty much full price.
(The lease deal includes everything except fuel, insurance, service, tyres, hire cars if it breaks down, winter wheels etc.)
The lease deal includes everything except fuel, insurance, service, tyres, hire cars if it breaks down, winter wheels etc.
I assume that comma after fuel should have been a semicolon?
The lease deal includes everything except fuel; insurance, service, tyres, hire cars if it breaks down, winter wheels etc.
£850/mo? Blimey. That's not including the BIK tax?
You can do much much better for that kind of money.
so reading this one :
mert
Free Member
Well, my company car scheme just opened again, no PHEV/HEV, no BEVs, all preconfigured with high value options (to improve resale value).So, another diesel but with the 48V light hybrid system on it.
But nearly £15k worth of options i didn’t really want.On the plus side, there were plenty of cars cheaper and more frugal than a fully loaded petrol SUV at ~£850 a month and 35mpg…
and then :
he SUV in question costs a little more than a base Taycan and we’re selling every single one we make at pretty much full price.
I guess you work for a car manufacturer.... and they don't offer EVs to their own employees on the staff Company Car scheme. I'd love to see how that fits into the Company's ESG value proposition !
IIRC mert is in Sweden so doesn't get BIK. I'll let you do the rest of the maths.
(I may be wrong)
I assume that comma after fuel should have been a semicolon?
yes... I noticed 16 minutes after i posted. Oops.
You can do much much better for that kind of money.
Not really. Not without having the tax go through the roof. You'll pay about 15 quid/mo on the 850 quid SUV (i pay about 6 quid on mine) It's not BIK.
I guess you work for a car manufacturer…. and they don’t offer EVs to their own employees on the staff Company Car scheme. I’d love to see how that fits into the Company’s ESG value proposition !
About 40% of the company fleet is now BEV, 30% PHEV. They're replacing the models we don't make any more. So anyone with BEV/PHEV won't get an offer to exchange until (probably) next summer. At the earliest. Anyone with a 3 year old conventional ICE with the discontinued infotainment/electrical architecture (like me) is being pushed onto something "better". A light hybrid with the current electrical architecture.
<blockquoteOctopus are so far ahead of the other providers in terms of the interaction between the app, home devices and the grid demand.
Octopus seem very good all round.
Oh, cancel everything, I'll have one of these:
https://www.audi.co.uk/uk/web/en/models/etrongt/audi-rs-e-tron-gt.html
One of my colleagues has one. It’s really nice, I prefer it over the Taycan it’s related to, and I normally hate Audis. I’d be tempted but they’ve removed it from our car scheme for the moment as delivery lead times are over 6 months, plus the range is utter poo.
That charge port location looks even worse than the iPace for needing creative parking and dragging cables across the bonnet when trying to use a rapid.
Yeah that's a huge downside. It says low 200s range from a 95kWh battery which is rubbish. Can't blame it on aerodynamics either.
That ridiculous car makes me glad to have decided to buy a used Tesla Model 3 Long Range, which ain’t cheap but has a better range and almost the same level of performance for less than a third of the price.
I love the look of the RS eTron, much nicer looking than the Taycan to me. However, it would be no good in the Chrispoffer household as I picked up this last Thursday -
It's a new Renault Megane eTech. It's a company car to replace my 3 year old diesel auto that was collected by the c/hire co on Tues this week. I used the Megane for the first time on Thurs then lent it to a colleague as I was going from Co Durham to Glasgow on Sunday night for a gig and although the Megane could've done it I would have had to build charging time into the trip which might have interfered with drinking/dancing time. Would've been 370 miles ish, the Megane has a 60kw battery and has a WLTP range of 280 miles although in practice so far the max it's been showing is around 200, I'm assuming this might be down to the weather.
I've got it plugged in at the moment at work - for free - ready to break up for Xmas tonight. I'll maybe have to brave public charging over the hols, will see how I go. Haven't got a charge point at home but I have got a 3kw granny lead to plug into the garage.
I like it so far, the big screens are nice as is the Google integration. And of course my company car tax will go down from £220 a month ish to £27 - and hopefully negligible charging costs if I can keep it topped up at work which'll make a huge difference.
I'm off to Edinburgh for a meeting on the 4th of Jan which will be it's first long run for work, but I'll be able to charge at the site that I'll be at while I'm busy.
We still have a couple of dino fuel cars in the house so it'll be interesting to see how the personal use goes, whether we'll be using it ahead of the others. I think we might.
That charge port location looks even worse than the iPace for needing creative parking and dragging cables across the bonnet when trying to use a rapid.
Think the E-Tron GT has two charge ports, one on each side.
There was an RS parked outside, but someones taken it out for a drive...
the Megane has a 60kw battery and has a WLTP range of 280 miles although in practice so far the max it’s been showing is around 200, I’m assuming this might be down to the weather.
It'll take some time to learn its characteristics, but not long.
Did you calculate the range for that Audi based on their calculator?
Guy I work with has an etron and I'm praying at some point he grows out of testing the acceleration/braking and uses the cruise control a bit more...
@chrispoffer
Assuming you are in the NorthEast (going from the transported bridge in the pic), you'll be fine getting up to Edinburgh. Theres a pretty solid Ionity next to Alnwick and Tesla superchargers a little further up the (you need the Tesla app to use it).
I reckon I can get there in one hit up the A68 from Co Durham - it's only about 135 miles - charge when I'm there for £0.00 as they've got a 22kw charger and then back home. I didn't know you could use a Tesla supercharger if you don't have a Tesla though, that might be handy in the future!
i tested it at the one near us....much to the disgust of the Tesla drivers 😀
(I was in our cheap little Kia)
Haven’t got a charge point at home but I have got a 3kw granny lead to plug into the garage.
If it's the same block as the Zoé in France you'll need a specific socket to get 3kW, without it defaults to 2kW.
Take care, you can’t just rock up at any Tesla Supercharger and use it. Get the Tesla app, it shows which sites are open to any vehicle. It’s only about 15 of them. You have to pay through the app too.
Tesla prices reduced - https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/tesla-slashes-price-of-model-3-and-y-in-move-that-will-damage-used-prices-further/277651
already got an email from nationwide leasing with £125 off a month for a model Y.
thats going to hammer the residuals on teslas bought earlier in the year!
Wow. That's huge reductions - 15/16%. Wouldn't want to be one of the 16,000 folk that took delivery of a Tesla in the UK in December, especially if they own them. My pal has a dual motor 3 as a company car and it's genuinely one of the quickest cars I've ever been in, this side of an Aerial Atom - but as he has no stake in it's residual value he won't be at all bothered.
Seems to be viewed as a negative story but it's great. Other manufs will be under pressure to follow suit, so we'll have competition. I reckon UK prices are over inflated, because demand is more than supply and they could get away with it. Check out the price of a Nissan Leaf in the USA.
Check out the price of a Nissan Leaf in the USA.
The MRSP as stated online or the actual bottom line price as paid when your driving away.
In the USA those are very different
equally hilarious (as the article points out) for those who've ordered but not taken delivery yet - they either have to stick to the agreed price, or cancel & re-order but now they're at the back of the queue again!Wow. That’s huge reductions – 15/16%. Wouldn’t want to be one of the 16,000 folk that took delivery of a Tesla in the UK in December, especially if they own them.
That said have no idea what percentage of people actually buy these outright vs lease or company car. It's a [I]lot[/I] of dosh even at these reduced prices!
equally hilarious (as the article points out) for those who’ve ordered but not taken delivery yet – they either have to stick to the agreed price, or cancel & re-order but now they’re at the back of the queue again!
They have done similar to powerwall customers only it's to pump the price up right before install and then say pay up or we will sell it to the next guy.
Shoddy and bullying business practice put me off the powerwall and while I still think the Tesla vehicle ecosystem is far superior to any other manufacturers......I shan't be giving them my cash.
Other manufs will be under pressure to follow suit, so we’ll have competition.
Could it be because there's increasing competition from legacy manufacturers, and possibly Musk's twitter mentalism is rapidly turning people off Tesla? And the auto-pilot crashes I guess?