Concerned about immigration - racist in polite language
An interesting one... when the last set of immigration figures were published, with net migration figures falling, Farage flipped to complaining about the high number of people LEAVING the UK. A reminder that it's not about "numbers", it's not about "being full", so what is it about...? I think we all know... but you're "not allowed to talk about it these days".
Key to that is being prepared to stand up to Trump, Blair, Badenoch, Farage and a whole host of politicians outside the UK government pushing against the net zero
To be fair to Blair, the Guardian mis-characterised his statement on net zero. In the entire five and half thousand word essay the only remark he makes about net zero is the following half sentence...
as we have argued consistently, remove those parts of the net-zero agenda which prioritise clean energy over cheaper energy
and that's it. Prioritise cheaper energy, and you can read the "consistently" parts here in the Blair Institute report on Energy Strategy written in February
If you don't want to read the report, and I don't blame you, in short is says that it thinks that UK's net zero strategy is ass backwards. Currently it priorities clean energy over everything else and states that it believes that once the infra is built prices will naturally come down. The Blair institute thinks that it's wishful thinking that it'll happen and as that its going to be the case until 2030 at the earliest, shouldn't the priority really be making sure that folks can afford to heat their homes now?
Oh yes it does! Concerned about immigration - racist in polite language
The polling also suggests that two-thirds (67%) of Britons think immigration is too high.
every other Aisan person is a racist according to @tjagain.
Blair Institute report on Energy Strategy written in February
Yeah, that's basically setting out the case for burning more gas to fuel AI data centres. Blair is bought and paid for.
I'll trust Starmer, Milliband, Burnham, Brown and whole host of current Labour politicians before risking having Blair set energy policy direction.
However all of us are prone to being led to some degree and those most delusional about their own capabilities, like you, are most prone
Maybe one day us thicko’s who are led by the nose by the right wing press and are incapable of independent thought will free ourselves from our intellectual prisons, smash down the walls that have so constrained us ideologically for all our lives and attain that higher state of consciousness that only you and all the rest of our resident lefties seem to possess.
We will all then castigate ourselves for how wrong we’ve all been about everything and see the pure unquestioned certainty of your wisdom, then it’s onwards to creating the socialist utopia that yourself and the rest of common room knew all along was this countries manifest destiny
Solidarity comrade!
Great rundownof what Starmer/Labour has done well
And a great demonstration of how Starmer just doesn't get politics. While everyone else has given up on net zero and is now focused on other issues like the cost of living and the impact of AI on the jobs market, Starmer's govt are patting themselves on the back for a job well done on something that won't win them any votes.
Burnham and Streeting on the other hand seem to understand though if according to this piece they really are thinking of challenging the bond markets and neoliberal status quo to break us out of this infernal economic doom loop.
THEGUARDIAN.COM So, according to our usual lefty cabal, everyone is now racist as well as being thick and incapable of independent thought?
I’m genuinely mystified as to how ‘vote for us you shit-thick racist ****s’ has never translated into a socialist government in this country. I doubt we will ever get to the bottom of that one. It’s truly perplexing.
In the entire five and half thousand word essay the only remark he makes about net zero is the following half sentence...
He also talked about it in the news agent podcast and at least one other I cant remember.
Currently it priorities clean energy over everything else and states that it believes that once the infra is built prices will naturally come down.
That seems rather misrepresentative to me and its significant how much of that report is dedicated to blabbing on about AI datacentres. I would be interested to see the justification why we need AI data centres? Since I suspect given who funds that institute it isnt about us having sovereignty over them.
The references to NS supplies also show a similar issue. Is it about giving the UK reserves in which case why talk about it being commercial or about selling it on the world market in which case what is the gain to us if it isnt taxed heavily?
If only there was a part of the UK where the political leaders are prepared to call out reform for its racism, to follow leftish policies and tax and spend to make the lives of the poorer better and thus to negate reform and to gain a further mandate for left of centre pro europe anti racist policies
Oh wait - look north of the border
Oh wait - look at the polling that makes it clear labours aping of the racism and performative cruelty of the right costs them vote rather than gains them.
It’s easy to say Scotland is all progressive and pro mass migration when they’ve barely had any.
It’s easy to say Scotland is all progressive and pro mass migration when they’ve barely had any.
And yet some of the most progressive parts of England are those with diverse populations.
It’s easy to say Scotland is all progressive and pro mass migration when they’ve barely had any.
And yet some of the most progressive parts of England are those with diverse populations.
correct.
It’s an interesting point. Most of my Muslim friends are quite keen on the greens despite being the most conservative people I know, their views on LGBT would probably get them banned on here.
That seems rather misrepresentative to me and its significant how much of that report is dedicated to blabbing on about AI datacentres.
yeah, the report is mostly bullshit, the question they ask about net zero is at least valid.
yeah, the report is mostly bullshit, the question they ask about net zero is at least valid.
Not really. His argument about using North Sea reserves does nothing to make energy more affordable. And he ignores the fact that the government's headline £15bn Warm Homes Plan is not primarily a net zero plan.
It’s easy to say Scotland is all progressive and pro mass migration when they’ve barely had any.
I heard the SNP were piloting a scheme encouraging immigration by giving every new arrival a camper van?
It’s easy to say Scotland is all progressive and pro mass migration when they’ve barely had any.
I heard the SNP were piloting a scheme encouraging immigration by giving every new arrival a camper van?
I’d rather they were given a spade and instructed to start digging a large ditch across the border from the solway to the North Sea
Oh wait - look north of the border
TJ your portrayal of Scotland as some sort of lefty-green utopia where everyone lives in peace and harmony is rather tiresome. It's a mostly rural country with a small population and only two major cities, one of which is one of the richest in the whole country. The only place where Scotland experiences the issues the rest of the UK is struggling with is Glasgow and there you have the same issues playing out as you see in the rUK. The main reason Scotland isn't down in the pit of white nationalism and culture war bollocks is because it has a tiny economy and no one wants to live there.
Dazh - you really do show your ignorance of scotland and scottish politics there.
My thesis is simple. Its that the racists of reform get called out consistently by the political leadership. The political leadership also consistently make the case for more immigration and for EU membership. This sets a different tone. Even the tories in Scotland shy away from the culture wars anti immigrant rhetoric.
BY showing this leadership in opposing reform and its racism rather than by appeasing and legitimising it as happens in England Reform gains much less traction here.
I cannot be bothered to try to correct the rest of your ill informed post
Do you believe any of that?
Take Glasgow away and Scotland is a mostly middle class liberal place where the usual rightwing blowhards don't get any traction. It's not because they have some massively enlightened politicians or politics as TJ claims, it's a direct result of demographics and economics.
Sadly down here in the white-supremacist England we have dozens of cities and even more towns where there is massive deprivation, where austerity bites like it doesn't in Scotland, and a sizeable population of immigrants (and their descendants) who are easy targets for the white working class who feel like they've been abandoned. We have all the ingredients to allow white-supremacism to flourish whereas Scotland doesn't so it's hardly a surprise that Scotland looks a lot more palatable to those of us who despise the far right.
For perspective…. The entire counties population is the same size as that of the Greater Manchester and Merseyside combined authorities
Apart from population size (obviously true, whether relevant or not) it's all nonsense. For example, there are loads of deprived areas in Scotland, sadly. Most people live in or near one. Just like in England and Wales.
My point is that you could similarly argue that the political leadership, culture and economies of those 2 places are equally as different to what goes on in Westminster and just as unrepresentative/unrepresented
True. What's the relevance? It's popular to see Scotland as "just another region", even though it isn't.
My point is that you could similarly argue that the political leadership, culture and economies of those 2 places are equally as different to what goes on in Westminster and just as unrepresentative/unrepresented
That is not my point at all. I did not claim unrepresentative or unrepresented. Read my post again. My thesis that the politicians showing anti racist pro EU and pro immigration leadership has resulted in less traction for reform
But the difference is in the political leadership calling out the racists and racism consistently and argueing for a pro EU pro immigration policies. does Greater manchester have little traction for reform?
appeasing the racists simply gives them credence and legitimacy.
The idea that apart from Glasgow its a middle class liberal country is laughable.
The only place where Scotland experiences the issues the rest of the UK is struggling with is Glasgow
Pop to Inverness of a Saturday night and see if you still believe that on Sunday morning
If labour would callout the racists not appease them reform would gain far less traction. Its called leadership and we have an example of it working here. laboursa appeasmewnt of the racists simply legitimises and emboldens them
appeasing the racists simply gives them credence and legitimacy.
Assumes that reform voters are racists, which is just lazy thinking. As has been pointed out, some voters for reform will obviously be, the vast vast majority aren't.
appeasing the racists simply gives them credence and legitimacy.
Assumes that reform voters are racists, which is just lazy thinking. As has been pointed out, some voters for reform will obviously be, the vast vast majority aren't.
citation for that? You own link said differntly 🙂
Your insistence its not racism reflects very poorly on you.
There is a clear example of a different approach to reform meaning they remain sidelined. Ignore it if you wish. sure the anti poverty measures taken in Scotland may well also have a small effect
laboursa appeasmewnt of the racists simply legitimises and emboldens them
tj - you really do show your ignorance of England and English politics there.
Argument won!
Thats how it works right?
Apart from we can all see the appeasement in the various speeches from labour politicians. Its factual
But the difference is in the political leadership calling out the racists and racism consistently and argueing for a pro EU pro immigration policies.
Which is bollocks, quite frankly. It's easy for Scottish polliticians to support more immigration and membership of the EU because no one really disagrees with them. It's the other way round than the way you say it is, the politicians are not leading, they're following.
Down here in the white supremacist theme park, if politicians said the same as they do in Scotland they'd be out of office and replaced by Farage. No amount of 'leadership' will convince the white working class and others who have been taken in by Reform to change their minds, it would only entrench far right opinions. The solutions* to the problems in England are very different to Scotland, and that's mostly a result of much larger scales of deprivation, inequality, decline and hopelessness.
* Which is basically addressing the cost of living, rebuilding public services, and providing decent sustainable jobs for the working class in non-metropolitan areas.
Down here in the white supremacist theme park, if politicians said the same as they do in Scotland they'd be out of office and replaced by Farage
No they wouldn't. That far right rump in England is a very vocal minority, and not calling it out and having a reputable independent media to counter the right wing spin is what has enabled it to get a disproportionate level of attention and fear.
That far right rump in England is a very vocal minority
That might have been the case a few years ago, now though I think it's very entrenched in the working class ex-labour voting cohort, especially among white men. I have lots of white working class mates and loads of them are now parroting shite about two tier policing, anti-white racism, Islamic fundamentalism and god knows what else. They're not racists (I wouldn't be mates with them if they were), and until recently most of them weren't even political, but they've been infected by the onslaught in the media and on social media to the point where now I can barely talk to them about politics or current affairs and instead now have to tell them I'm not interested in talking about this stuff. It's bloody depressing quite frankly.
Dismissing far right views as a 'vocal minority' sounds very similar to all my middle class mates in 2016 going on about how we'd never vote to leave the EU because 'people couldn't be that stupid'.
If labour would callout the racists not appease them reform would gain far less traction. Its called leadership and we have an example of it working here
You mean like this sort of thing…
How’s the view from that Ivory Tower of yours?
If labour would callout the racists not appease them reform would gain far less traction. Its called leadership and we have an example of it working here
You mean like this sort of thing…
How’s the view from that Ivory Tower of yours?
They are a bigger minority than they were, but still a minority, and even with FPTP I can't see Farage getting into number 10 as you suggested, Restore and the Tories will split the right wing vote.
That's not to say that the Labour/LibDem and Green end won't split votes either. But calling out Farage and the Lowes of this world more regularly and more bluntly will strengthen that centre vote, not strengthen Farage. Though a proper left wing economic and social policy is needed to put some meaningful distance between them
That might have been the case a few years ago, now though I think it's very entrenched in the working class ex-labour voting cohort, especially among white men.
Not just that group either. I nearly fell out with one of our friends the other week on the subject of Reform.
She's early 70s, well off, runs an upmarket interiors shop (Farrow and Ball, Little Green, Posh wallpapers), goes on several cruises a year and thinks Farage as got it right. She voted Brexit too.
That might have been the case a few years ago, now though I think it's very entrenched in the working class ex-labour voting cohort, especially among white men. I have lots of white working class mates and loads of them are now parroting shite about two tier policing, anti-white racism, Islamic fundamentalism and god knows what else. They're not racists (I wouldn't be mates with them if they were), and until recently most of them weren't even political, but they've been infected by the onslaught in the media and on social media to the point where now I can barely talk to them about politics or current affairs and instead now have to tell them I'm not interested in talking about this stuff. It's bloody depressing quite frankly.
Why hang around with folk like that if you cannot talk to them about the social media bollox that they are ingesting?
