If Burnham fights another leadership contest, this time under the scrutiny of seeking to directly become PM rather than opposition leader, he’s going to quickly look like “more of the same, but not a Londoner”. That’ll get Labour a short bump in popularity, but is the chaos of changing leader (and adding to the “they’re just like the Tories” feeling among many who’ve turned to other parties or likely to not vote again) really going to be worth it?
Crucially, if Burnham plans to leave a General Election as late as possible, what new policy will he implement in that time that will be positively felt by the public beyond the current plans?
If he plans to capitalise on a bump in polls when he becomes leader and that bet results in a Reform government we could have avoided if they’d been given more time to lose support… he’ll go down in history, for sure.
i do not understand your point and anyway Burnham has pivoted to join the hard brexiteers.
At some point the former solidly Labour voters of the North West are either going to turn entirely to Reform, or they're going to have to have their minds changed about rejoining the EU via a Labour govt. Burnham, who has solid Labour Socialist bona fides who regard open borders with suspicion - an historically socialist policy (see Corbyn's et. al. continuous skepticism of the EU) might just be the person who can persuade them that their future lies in a UK realigned with Europe. Burnham has said (as late as September 2025) that he would like to see the UK back in the EU within his lifetime, and regardless of his recent statement about not "re-running" the referendum it is still more likely under a Labour govt than a Reform one.
therefore; Vote Burnham.
Its highly amusing to me watching folk excuse Burnham for his complete lack of integrity and willingness to adopt contrary positions depending on his audience.
If you want to rejoin the EU - which presumably you still do, then some people who voted leave - are going to have to change their minds, which according to you represents them having [checks notes]
"A lack of integrity and a willingness to adopt contrary positions".
There is every chance that Burham will take a harder line on EU cooperation than Starmer has. But who knows... what he shares with Starmer is the ability to paint a different picture for each audience he courts. There remains more questions than answers when it comes to swapping one leader for another. All feels a bit like when the Tories swung behind Johnson because he was "likeable"... and ate themselves.
Anyway... Burnham as PM... early election, or a full term? What's his plans?
What's going to be the actual policy deviation from the current government?
Or is it "get behind Andy" whatever the plan is... even if there isn't one?
Or is it "get behind Andy" whatever the plan is... even if there isn't one?
For Makerfield, it's the first. It's simple binary. For the leadership election - if there is one, and he wins it - then I want to see what the plan is, and who the cabinet are going to be.
Anyway... Burnham as PM... early election, or a full term?
Absolutely insane to think a PM with a huuuge majority would call an early election with 2+ years left
Its just nonsense pumped out but clickbait columnists and disingenous MPs trying desperately to sway voters
If you want to rejoin the EU - which presumably you still do, then some people who voted leave - are going to have to change their minds
Not necessarily. That was ten years back and consider the age profiles could probably get past anyway.
"A lack of integrity and a willingness to adopt contrary positions".
You might want to recheck your notes since you dropped a rather important part of that sentence "depending on his audience. "
Again you are busy rewriting history here or rather regurgitating the rewritten history you have been fed.
Ah yes…. here we go again…. Every single political thread there has ever been on here ends up with this assertion from one of the usual suspects…
That everyone who has a different opinion to yourselves, with your utterly superior and infinitely better informed viewpoint, is some unthinking drone who relies on having their opinions spoon fed to them by the Daily Mail
It’s not at all condescending or patronising and is a sure fire way to ‘win’ over everyone in any discussion. ‘Winning the argument’ once again, despite the slight hiccup of never ever winning an election. Safe in the comfort zone of irrelevant placard waving from the sidelines, basking in your idealogical purity that wouldn’t survive first contact with reality
Absolutely insane to think a PM with a huuuge majority would call an early election with 2+ years left
Yeah. I am sure there will be some quote from him saying May,Johnson, Truss (maybe not since might not have time to give a quote before she was gone) and Sunak should call an election immediately but then again there were quotes from several of them demanding Brown should.
Its not required and the downsides of not doing so are massively outweighed by the upsides.
i do not understand your point and anyway Burnham has pivoted to join the hard brexiteers.
At some point the former solidly Labour voters of the North West are either going to turn entirely to Reform, or they're going to have to have their minds changed about rejoining the EU via a Labour govt. Burnham, who has solid Labour Socialist bona fides who regard open borders with suspicion - an historically socialist policy (see Corbyn's et. al. continuous skepticism of the EU) might just be the person who can persuade them that their future lies in a UK realigned with Europe. Burnham has said (as late as September 2025) that he would like to see the UK back in the EU within his lifetime, and regardless of his recent statement about not "re-running" the referendum it is still more likely under a Labour govt than a Reform one.
therefore; Vote Burnham.
He does not have "solid Labour Socialist bona fides " He is a centrist social democrat
He is a hard brexiteer
There is no chance of another referendum until labour pivot away from the hard brexiteer position
I cannot vote for a hard brexiteer ever.
That everyone who has a different opinion to yourselves, with your utterly superior and infinitely better informed viewpoint, is some unthinking drone who relies on having their opinions spoon fed to them by the Daily Mail
Mr Irony doesnt pay you many visits does he? Your entire history is filled with sneering abuse at the left and right accompanied with self congratulatory bollocks.
If you read the "usual suspects" comments about brexiteers for example its remarkable how much more balanced the views are than that of the centrists.
I am not sure where to start with the binary stupidity of that sentencement beyond saying its utter ****ing bollocks. However all of us are prone to being led to some degree and those most delusional about their own capabilities, like you, are most prone.
That you have the utter lack of selfawareness to come out with "condescending or patronising" whilst spewing out sixth formers etc and those moronic memes shows just how utter devoid of thought you are.
I cannot vote for a hard brexiteer ever.
“My view is that Brexit has been damaging, but I also believe the last thing we should do right now is rerun those arguments.”
These don't seem like the words of a hard Breixteer, these seem like the words of a man that accepts that the constituents he wants to represent don't want a re-run of the referendum right now, and that
“Let’s fix our own country. Let’s get it working again. Let’s get it back to where people want it to be.”
Is more a priority.
Rejoining the EU is still more likely under a Labour Govt than anything else that's going to be available for me
Further to my post above I would like my politicians to tell the truth, Call out Reforms racism not pander to it, call for rejoin not lie about it, and I am certain this would increase vote and popularity. If only we had a part of the UK where this has happened to see the results. ( Polling has also shown clearly that aping reform reduces your vote)
I want my politicians to lead.
And yes - Burnham has adopted a hard brexiteer position like Starmer
Anyway... Burnham as PM... early election, or a full term?
Absolutely insane to think a PM with a huuuge majority would call an early election with 2+ years left
Its just nonsense pumped out but clickbait columnists and disingenous MPs trying desperately to sway voters
A la May, ended up with the DUP as bedfellows, if I remember 🙂
Yep,go for early election and end up with some bonkers reform/coalition(*) would be a great labour win.
(*)or possibly not but who knows/wants to gamble on facilitating something possibly worse than the current.
A la May, ended up with the DUP as bedfellows, if I remember
Yes although in her case it did make some sense.
The polls were massively in her favour and so the plan was she would have a clear mandate for the brexit negotiations.
Further to my post above I would like my politicians to tell the truth
You've said that you want them to not adopt contrary positions. What happens when they say a thing, realise they're wrong and say the opposite? You can you know have integrity and hold contrary views at the same time. Or do you just dismiss them as "weather vane"?
I want my politicians to lead.
Sure, and yet at the same time; part of the role of MPs in the system we have is to represent the views of their constituents at Westminster. As there is no job description it's left to each and every MP to work out how to best do that, and the best ones combine both leadership and representation.
Let’s fix our own country. Let’s get it working again. Let’s get it back to where people want it to be.”
Is more a priority.
Which cannot be done without rejoining the EU and the majority want to rejoin. so thats two lies to pander to the racists in reform
o thats two lies to pander to the racists in reform
There's no such thing as "The racists of Reform" in the same way that's there no such thing as "The Church" when you discuss assisted dying, these are just strawmen you invent to make yourself feel better about the binary decision that you make and then struggle to adapt when people point out the obvious flaws in having a black and white view of the world.
You've said that you want them to not adopt contrary positions. What happens when they say a thing, realise they're wrong and say the opposite? You can you know have integrity and hold contrary views at the same time. Or do you just dismiss them as "weather vane"?
There is a huge difference between " In the light of experience / new information I have changed my position" and what Burnham has done and you must know this.
He haws pivoted anti EU and pro EU multiple times. Same on Immigration / refugees / no recourse to public funds
The racists IN reform - yes there are - its a purely racist party built on racism.
Milk is racist, the gym is racist, lord of the rings is racist, punctuality is racist, the countryside is racist, maths is racist, dogs are racist and on and on it goes. It’s reached the point of absurdity. No one cares about your magic words, they’ve lost all power.
Talking of maths... can I recommend a film for you? "Hidden Figures"... you'll love it.
its a purely racist party built on racism.
There are racists who vote for Reform, and there are people who've been hoodwinked by their propaganda who're not racist, but just believe the con. Their votes count the same. Our sympathies should lie with the people being conned. We should not hold them responsible for falling for lies being peddled to them by sophisticated marketing.
Talking of maths... can I recommend a film for you? "Hidden Figures"... you'll love it.
I’ll get to it right after the body cam footage of Henry Nowak bleeding out while cuffed because his murderer accused him of doing a racism.
I’ll get to it right after the body cam footage of Henry Nowak bleeding out while cuffed because his murderer accused him of doing a racism.
Ah yes I have seen Farage has crawled out from his fridge to try and stoke hatred and discord.
Perhaps pay attention to what Henry Nowak's father says first?
Milk is racist, the gym is racist, lord of the rings is racist, punctuality is racist, the countryside is racist, maths is racist, dogs are racist and on and on it goes. It’s reached the point of absurdity. No one cares about your magic words, they’ve lost all power.
Is this racist?
BBC.CO.UK
Rather than Reform voters being either racist or hoodwinked, maybe they are just people fed up of a decade and a half of rubbish Tories being replaced by the quite frankly awful Labour govenment - who hoodwinked them into voting for them?
The Tory voters that switched to Labour obviously weren't swung by any promises of closed borders, so when they now desert Labour, don't just assume it's because of brown people.
I don't vote BTW
The Tory voters that switched to Labour obviously weren't swung by any promises of closed borders, so when they now desert Labour, don't just assume it's because of brown people.
tbh not that many switched to labour, they iust switched to reform and split the rw vote
though labour did promise to 'smash thr gangs' (tm)
The Tory voters that switched to Labour obviously weren't swung by any promises of closed borders, so when they now desert Labour, don't just assume it's because of brown people.
tbh not that many switched to labour, they iust switched to reform and split the rw vote
though labour did promise to 'smash thr gangs' (tm)
Yeah, fair point.
Good interview with Kemi on GMB this morning. Every time I see her speak, she seems to have a good handle on things - especially when she's dressing down Starmer. She wasn't this morning though, she was having a pop at Farage and his Henry Nowak commentary, as well as addressing systemic failures in the Police regarding racial issues
Rather than Reform voters being either racist or hoodwinked, maybe they are just people fed up of a decade and a half of rubbish Tories
Given the composition of reform I would suggest that voting for them in response to being fed up with useless tories shows they are still being hoodwinked.
Whilst I can understand wanting an alternative to Labour/tories reform arent that. They are tories reset to keep the thatcherite economics but to lose the small social changes that Cameron and co gave. The problem is since the economics dont work they need to blame something for that. It was brexit but once that went through and delivered on its promise of fewer European migrants and more from elsewhere in the world its time to blame the latter.
Are they stupid children now? They are adults, with a vote. They are absolutely responsible for their actions.
According to the LSE; Reform UK appeals to:
"Older, working class, relatively uneducated voters who tend to be English nationalists".
The National Centre for Social Research says in this report
"they are distinguished above all by having a socially conservative outlook that is reflected, inter alia, in their attitudes towards immigration, equalities policies, and welfare spending, and is underpinned by a demographic profile that is dominated by older voters and those who have not been to university"
But, yeah, dismiss them as a old bunch of stupid racists if it makes it easier for you.
She spouts whatever populist shite she feels will get her airtime.
Let me guess, you think Polanski speaks sense?
They are adults, with a vote. They are absolutely responsible for their actions.
To a degree. However everyone is vulnerable to what information they have access too and unfortunately the data sources available are increasingly unbalanced. Unless you are the sort of person who either enjoys politics/whenever reading nonfiction check every footnote for accuracy and can spend lots of time comparing multiple sources the chances of being well informed are pretty low.
In the past I think you could have got a reasonable idea of key policies from the news (paper and tv) and a debate or two but now good luck with that. Even then I suspect a lot of votes were "always voted for x".
There are various studies showing a link between, for example, concern about small boat crossing and the amount of press coverage. Which is logical enough given how low most of our interactions will be
Are they stupid children now? They are adults, with a vote. They are absolutely responsible for their actions.
According to the LSE; Reform UK appeals to:
"Older, working class, relatively uneducated voters who tend to be English nationalists".
The National Centre for Social Research says in this report
"they are distinguished above all by having a socially conservative outlook that is reflected, inter alia, in their attitudes towards immigration, equalities policies, and welfare spending, and is underpinned by a demographic profile that is dominated by older voters and those who have not been to university"
But, yeah, dismiss them as a old bunch of stupid racists if it makes it easier for you.
Yup - thats exactly what that says in polite language
Totally scientific prediction for Makerfield
The Poster Count Election Prediction: Makerfield editionIn Gorton & Denton, a simple count of election posters and boards pointed to a clear victory for the Greens over Reform and Labour.In Makerfield, the picture is more complicated...(1/4)
I think Farages latest desperate attempt to cry 'victimsed white people' is a sure sign they are worried about Restore
IANDUNT.SUBSTACK.COM Key to that is being prepared to stand up to Trump, Blair, Badenoch, Farage and a whole host of politicians outside the UK government pushing against the net zero and energy decarbonisation projects that were central to the election manifesto (you know, one of those "changes" that disingenuous people keep pretending weren't spelt out or detailed at the election).
I'll be honest though... I don't think Starmer deserves much credit for that delivery, he seems to have very much delegated that to others. It'll be interesting to see if Burnham proposes public ownership of fresh renewables and energy storage, to go faster and nationalise the profits to be made... as Miliband was proposing a few years before the last election... it could make a big noise rather than just "quietly" delivering, especially with Labour members who's votes he'll need.
you know, one of those "changes" that disingenuous people keep pretending weren't spelt out or detailed at the election
Sigh. You do comprehend the difference between a manifesto which basically no one reads and what is put forward in interviews and press articles, right? There is a reason the latter is focussed on since that is what drives public opinion and responses.
Net zero is, of course, an odd one given the recorded conflict between Starmer and Milliband. I am not sure Starmer deserves much praise for it.
Reminds me a bit of a comment about Blair last week asking why he didnt boast about surestart etc when talking about his successes in his hatchet job. The answer was probably simply he didnt consider them gains but instead things forced on him.
You do comprehend the difference between a manifesto which basically no one reads and what is put forward in interviews and press articles, right?
I appreciate that most people also tend to go no further than the headlines when it comes to interviews and press articles as well. If even that. There was plenty of talk in the campaign, from people now in government, about how/when/what the shift to renewable energy would look like... not least because it was less ambitious than they'd been proposing mid-term.
