My Spanish friend calls my bike a “Countryside Bicycle”.
Sums it up perfectly

Is it location specific too? In the south we don’t have hills, let alone mountains, so we’re seen more as social riders rather than hardcore MTB trail slayers.

But I don’t see MTB being a ‘destination’ thing until uplifts, towns etc exist. Morzine, chatel, Les arcs, finale ligure, they have “something” and I can’t see the UK replicating that as the places that have the hills are colder, wet, midge ridden hell holes. The Alps has the benefits but without the downsides.

What we as MTB riders want, doesn’t exist. So we try and co exist with walkers, ramblers and countryside folk, but we don’t want them, they want us even less than that. So it’s not going to work.

Accept we are a minority and mostly disliked, at best we may reach the height of being vaguely tolerated.

Sad, but IMO, true.

Look at places where our trail centers are and ask yourself “who’s going to embrace it”

BPW, is 2 miles outside a dive of a Welsh town. Antur, Dyfi, Revs, nothing, barely a house. How can you attract people to the area, unless there’s the infrastructure to attract them to?
Rogate, Fod, Afan, nothing.
Surrey hills has 1 shop, 1 pub and a post office, again not exactly embraced

Llandegla, nothing, Pines, nothing, even Cannock, Swinley, nothing. What do people do before or after riding, they have to instantly leave the area to get changed, have food, drink, hotels.

Afan tried it with the lodges, but it’s Afan, no one goes there anyway.

I wish I had the answer, but sadly I can’t see it.

Just call it “Wild cycling” and everyone will jump on the bandwagon! It worked for swimming and camping 😉

Maybe stop trying to make it “something”?
All this talk of digging and creating venues makes it something different. It gives antis somewhere to push people to for a start. I must put my hand up and say that I struggle to see why people go somewhere and then change/spoil it.
Maybe it’s a generation thing? Dunno. Many of us oldies (not me yet I am only 59 so can’t be called a long time cyclist) don’t see mountain biking or any other cycling as anything special as we have been at it for decades, it’s nothing special. Why the hell mountain biking is labelled an extreme sport, God only knows. Bit like skiing, climbing, surfing. Sorry but I believe that the root of much of this is journalism with a good chunk of merchandising chucked on top. Publications need to sell and soon expand from the few mates spreading their own word. This kills the goose eventually. The little TBM magazine founded in the 90’s had a lot to do with the huge increase in the popularity of trail riding. (the proper version with engines not the modern version with, er hang on, engines that pretend they are not). Many a born again rider sold his Fireblade, bought a 450 KTM that he couldn’t handle and messed it up for those of us who had been considerate for decades.Then then moved on to golf/jetskis/whatever.What did we get? Lane closures left right and centre, all brought in by outsiders and incomers.
My version would be to tone it all down some what but that won’t make money will it? Ah well.

Many of us oldies (not me yet I am only 59 so can’t be called a long time cyclist) don’t see mountain biking or any other cycling as anything special as we have been at it for decades, it’s nothing special. Why the hell mountain biking is labelled an extreme sport,

Because your MTB riding and what is now the mainstream MTB riding are actually different sports.

Gravel, trails, Climbing Tor this or Nevis that, isn’t MTB riding to more and more people. They want roots, jumps, drops and of course uplifts.

The sport has evolved, is evolving and will evolve even more. But it’s likely to do so, away from your idea of riding.

I love both. Today my ride was local, a few hills, some woods, paths, trails. Next weekend will be a purpose built location for riding. Both have their place to me. But not to many now.

Full of riders in armour, no where near the ground with lots of alpine meadows.

I think that has been the image of “mountain biking” for a while. Isn’t this where gravel riding comes in? You can get off road, explore, have cake, chill out and all without risk of being killed to death.

People need to decide what they want

I think they have mostly. And that’s often it. The days of the local MTB rider cruising along bridleways is very much in the demise compared to 20 years ago. That’s why the bike brands make more and more big bouncy bikes, it’s why Levo 180s exist, it’s why all the big boys sponsor big air riders.

Youth don’t see the ecological aspect, they care about the green planet, sure but then ask them if they want to drive 3 hours to Dyfi or cruise to get a sticky bun and cruise back. The answer, well it’s fairly easy to see.

I don’t know if the story is different up in Scotland for example but I suspect potentially not.

Everyone is wary about bike crashes from experience of their own childhood and their own kids. And mountains are dangerous. So mountain biking must be dangerous.

the Unaware – they’ve no strong views, but probably think mountain biking is ‘scary’.

My friends and family are of this type.

“You’re not riding your bike on that are you” – comment on photo I shared with handlebars and rocky bridleway in background.
“Thing with you going on that skills day is you’ll be inclined to take more risks” – somewhat true but on balance it made me safer.
“Jesus christ where are you riding this thing” – upon seeing 140mm 29er with 2.4″ tyres.

I suggest that we need to reframe the image of mountain biking, shifting it from ‘dangerous sport’ to ‘fun activity’.

I can’t say I’m helping with this, even as a reasonably risk-averse rider. Fell off bike, fractured a bone, all my extended family and half the village knows about it. Wearing knee and elbow pads, sometimes a helmet with chin bar.

This all feels rather negative.

(for some background – I’m a Ride Sheffielder, was on the periphery of organising this and led one of the rides in the morning, but couldn’t hang around for the talky bit in the afternoon.)

it’s sitting in committees and advisory groups, access forums and rare landowner meetings. Not very “rad”. But very necessary.

Absolutely. But that’s not what Hannah’s talking about – the people and organisations your dealing with are already aware of the pros and cons of mountainbikes – its about grabbing a random person in the street, saying “mountainbiking” to them and seeing what their reaction is.

FWIW I think you’ve drawn a bit of a shitty straw, as I always get the impression “The Peak District” feels it doesn’t need cyclists of any ilk, because it gets enough business just by being a tourist destination. A lot of small businesses feel rather differently I think. Once you head into S.Yorkshire, to me it (mostly) feels much more friendly, as its where people live and work, they’re much more used to seeing bikes, and being “The Outdoor City” an awful lot of people do something outdoorsy – run, walk, climb etc, so get the basic reason we’re out doing what we do. The city itself is also a lot more onside with making facilities available.

@weeksy – that’s a very narrow view of mountainbiking. Other than Lady Cannings, which happens to be at the top of my road (and I use regularly as part of bigger rides), I’ve done a total of 2 days at a trailcentre this year (Golfie) + an hour riding at Greno when Steelcity reopened. If I’m going to drive across town, I’ll go to Wharncliffe instead, because the riding is much more interesting – a line scratched out down the hillside with roots and rocks where they’ve fallen and to negotiate as your skills allow. I get bored very quickly with berm/jump/berm/jump stuff. Trailcentres are part of mountainbiking, but far from all of it – and I include uplift centres too.

I’d very much say the UK (hell even England) has “destination” locations. I’d put a nice spring day in the Lakes up against any riding in the world. But its not easy and its not guaranteed. You will have to get to the top under your own steam, you will probably have to carry your bike, the descent may well be pant fillingly scary – even at walking pace, and it being up a mountain – the weather may suddenly turn disgusting. But the reward when you roll the dice right is unforgettable.

Closer to home – I once had a conversation with a pair of Californians who rode Laguna Beach pretty regularly – they really wanted to come to Sheffield to ride Steelcity at Greno, because media made it look amazing. I asked if they were really interested in flying half way round the world to ride a sub 90sec bit of tame singletrack – “yes”…!

You ask why Levo 180s exist, or why people drive 3hrs to Dyfi. Because they’re ****ing lazy. Anyone strong enough to ride a bike like that properly doesn’t need it. Dfyi – uplifts, toilets, cafe, parking. Fast food riding. Sure a kebab and chips can be the right thing occasionally, but you don’t want it every day, do you? Same with Strava etc. Spoon fed riding. What happened to getting a map out and learning an area yourself? Sure – sure, some trails are crap – but unless you ride it yourself, you won’t know. Where’s the adventure in following someone else’s idea of fun?

I think a large part of the problem is that mountain bikes are too good now. I can ride pretty much anything on my 4 year old hardtail with unfashionably small wheels, and I can ride it faster than most. My big bike is antisocially fast if I give it full beans, so has to be used sparingly and sometimes frustratingly (like owning a properly quick car). The rise of gravel I think is a reaction to this. A whole lot of “shit 90’s mountainbiking” has become enjoyable again. Hell the tyres and gears are much better than 30 years ago and brakes are in a different league.

@stwhannah – I’m not sure the skiing analogy hold up. Aspirational yes, but there’s a reason for that – its chuffin expensive, very heavily commercialised and you have to go to a different country to do it. A week’s skiing £££ will set you up with a damn good bike that you can ride 365 days a year for multiple years. I’d also suggest its equally and similarly media driven – my insta feed is full of park stuff, in which I have zero interest; and big mountian freeride clips, which are WAAAY above my paygrade, in the same way Rampage is, but the terrain and the use of the mountains is inspiring. For me, just like bikes – its a gateway to a mountain experience, and for me the best skiing is away from the infrastructure – just you and the hill. I’m quite early in my ski career, so proper backcountry is a way off, but the little nibbles I’ve had have been a very pure hit.

I’d say the biggest impediment to Mountainbiking is the antipathy to Biking or “cycling” in general. I learnt to ride age 19 so I could get to uni, but as someone who walked/hiked/rambled, riding offroad was instinctive. Get more people onto bikes and out of cars, make riding a bike a natural “life” activity and more people will fall into all the different sporting variations that bikes can offer.

..and what’s the desire to pigeon hole everything? In the same ride, I might bimble to a cafe, hit a challenging climb as hard as I can, smash a cheeky enduro descent or 2, watch the clouds or a sunset from the summit, then spin home again on road. Its all there ready for the taking and served how you want.

Ride road, ride gravel, ride bmx or enduro or DH, but above all ride!

#benicesayhi

I’ve had critical illness cover which has excluded MTBing, but I fail to see how wheels-on-the-ground bridleway mincing is less safe than road cycling (which was fine from the insurer’s POV) and I’m too old/unskilled to be shredding the gnar.

It would be interesting to see what the insurer’s attitude to gravel is.

The above post has hit the nail on the head without realising it it. Wild swimming. WTF? Yet another new , glamourous term/niche. It is swimming. In a river or a pond or maybe a very big pond. What we do . It is nothing new. Why give it some special name and make it into a big thing?
Apologies for spelling/punctuation, mildly pissed , just returned from a cycling club annual dinner where we were gobsmacked by a club member being best female in the GB endurothingy and telling us all about it.

Plus, in the UK at least, Mountain Biking has always been a pretty crap label for what we do. Round here at least, Forest Biking would way more accurate for example…

Admittedly, Medium Sized Muddy Hill Biking doesn’t roll off the tongue either.

… or why people drive 3hrs to Dyfi. Because they’re ****ing lazy.

I spent yesterday at Dyfi, and it’s even further than that from my home. But I think “lazy” is a little unfair. For me, and I suspect for most, it’s a special occasion, maybe a couple of times a year big weekend away.

Something I noticed while there though was a sense of a little bit more diversity. I think the existence of some “destinations” helps hugely with expanding the sport. If it’s all on a plate with a cafe etc too then it’s easier to get into.

Lovely day by the way. Good weather for late November, the lunch and coffee were both excellent and the stove was on after.

Edit: if my post seems to conflict with MrAgreeble above, that wasn’t my intention. I hadn’t read your post and I do agree with it.

I barely recognise much of the conversation in this thread (and not because I’m currently nursing a hangover). My mountain biking is much closer to “hillwalking with bikes” and always has been. I see thousands of other folk taking the same approach every year; men and women of all ages, kids, family groups, they’re all around the place. You could sit with a bike counter on the Old Logging Way out of Aviemore on a busy day and count hundreds. Even in the supposedly shittier months there are scores of cyclists.

When I’m out on my bike I might meet walkers, horse riders and even XC skiers. There’s rarely, if ever, any animosity (biking through cut XC ski trails has caused a bit of grief).

And, as has been already pointed out in another thread, DMBinS have nothing to do with any of this. They’re very much concentrating on “built trails” whether that’s the Glentress honeypot or by the creation of Trail Associations, which are mostly about DH style trails in more anonymous forest. So don’t even suggest that they are in any way inclusive.

JonEdwards here, here ! Well said.

I suggest that we need to reframe the image of mountain biking, shifting it from ‘dangerous sport’ to ‘fun activity’. Normalise it in this way, and we will have a broader range of participants that paves the way for more support right up to the most technical of trail options.

We could call it ‘leisure cycling’?

Anyone who thinks purpose built trails with graded, accessible loops for all abilities are “exclusive” or “elitist” is talking absolute nonsense. There are groups of kids having birthday parties at Lady Cannings. A load of the current trail development in Aberdeenshire is aimed at broadening the offer there. There’s a new blue trail happening at Laggan. And DMBinS are involved in projects training up women and BME ride leaders, introducing people with mental health issues to mountain biking… What is people’s issue with a small organisation that’s delivering way more for the money than most?

You can’t bimble on a bridleway if you live somewhere urban where there aren’t any.

I live right in a dense city and have a lot of urban singletrack I can ride much of it created by local kids on cheap MTBs. Its astonishing how much there is if you go looking and I would bet my house all urban areas are the same. Certainly manchester and Sheffield have some.