[Closed] Should Theresa May resign?

Perhaps we should send a white van to Downing Street. With an advert on it inviting Teresa to phone a certain number if she wants to go home

http://mobile2.derbund.ch/articles/59442e3cab5c3744ba000001

A little hyperbolic in places, but if it's in any way indicative of how moderate Europeans view us currently...

THE LAUGHING STOCK OF EUROPE
[Translation by Paula Kirby]
If it weren't so serious, the situation in Great Britain would almost be comical. The country is being governed by a talking robot, nicknamed the Maybot, that somehow managed to visit the burned-out tower block in the west of London without speaking to a single survivor or voluntary helper. Negotiations for the country’s exit from the EU are due to begin on Monday, but no one has even a hint of a plan. The government is dependent on a small party that provides a cozy home for climate change deniers and creationists. Boris Johnson is Foreign Secretary. What in the world has happened to this country?

Two years ago David Cameron emerged from the parliamentary election as the shining victor. He had secured an absolute majority, and as a result it looked as if the career of this cheerful lightweight was headed for surprisingly dizzy heights. The economy was growing faster than in any other industrialised country in the world. Scottish independence and, with it, the break-up of the United Kingdom had been averted. For the first time since 1992, there was a Conservative majority in the House of Commons. Great Britain saw itself as a universally respected actor on the international stage. This was the starting point.

In order to get from this comfortable position to the chaos of the present in the shortest possible time, two things were necessary: first, the Conservative right wingers’ obsessive hatred of the EU, and second, Cameron’s irresponsibility in putting the whole future of the country on the line with his referendum, just to satisfy a few fanatics in his party. It is becoming ever clearer just how extraordinarily bad a decision that was. The fact that Great Britain has become the laughing stock of Europe is directly linked to its vote for Brexit.

The ones who will suffer most will be the British people, who were lied to by the Brexit campaign during the referendum and betrayed and treated like idiots by elements of their press. The shamelessness still knows no bounds: the Daily Express has asked in all seriousness whether the inferno in the tower block was due to the cladding having been designed to meet EU standards. It is a simple matter to discover that the answer to this question is No, but by failing to check it, the newspaper has planted the suspicion that the EU might be to blame for this too. As an aside: a country in which parts of the press are so demonstrably uninterested in truth and exploit a disaster like the fire in Grenfell Tower for their own tasteless ends has a very serious problem.

Already prices are rising in the shops, already inflation is on the up. Investors are holding back. Economic growth has slowed. And that’s before the Brexit negotiations have even begun. With her unnecessary general election, Prime Minister Theresa May has already squandered an eighth of the time available for them. How on earth an undertaking as complex as Brexit is supposed to be agreed in the time remaining is a mystery.

Great Britain will end up leaving its most important trading partner and will be left weaker in every respect. It would make economic sense to stay in the single market and the customs union, but that would mean being subject to regulations over which Britain no longer had any say. It would be better to have stayed in the EU in the first place. So the government now needs to develop a plan that is both politically acceptable and brings the fewest possible economic disadvantages. It’s a question of damage limitation, nothing more; yet even now there are still politicians strutting around Westminster smugly trumpeting that it will be the EU that comes off worst if it doesn’t toe the line.

The EU is going to be dealing with a government that has no idea what kind of Brexit it wants, led by an unrealistic politician whose days are numbered; and a party in which old trenches are being opened up again: moderate Tories are currently hoping to be able to bring about a softer exit after all, but the hardliners in the party – among them more than a few pigheadedly obstinate ideologues – are already threatening rebellion. An epic battle lies ahead, and it will paralyse the government.

EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier has said that he now expects the Brits to finally set out their position clearly, since he cannot negotiate with himself. The irony of this statement is that it would actually be in Britain’s best interests if he did just that. At least that way they’d have one representative on their side who grasps the scale of the task and is actually capable of securing a deal that will be fair to both sides. The Brits do not have a single negotiator of this stature in their ranks. And quite apart from the Brexit terms, both the debate and the referendum have proven to be toxic in ways that are now making themselves felt.

British society is now more divided than at any time since the English civil war in the 17th century, a fact that was demonstrated anew in the general election, in which a good 80% of the votes were cast for the two largest parties. Neither of these parties was offering a centrist programme: the election was a choice between the hard right and the hard left. The political centre has been abandoned, and that is never a good sign. In a country like Great Britain, that for so long had a reputation for pragmatism and rationality, it is grounds for real concern. The situation is getting decidedly out of hand.

After the loss of its empire, the United Kingdom sought a new place in the world. It finally found it, as a strong, awkward and influential part of a larger union: the EU. Now it has given up this place quite needlessly. The consequence, as is now becoming clear, is a veritable identity crisis from which it will take the country a very long time to recover.

🙁

[url= http://rochdaleherald.co.uk/2017/06/17/kaiser-chiefs-hurriedly-rerelease-i-predict-a-riot/ ]The (probably pretty accurate) view from Rochdale[/url]

I preferred this one Binners:

http://rochdaleherald.co.uk/2017/06/16/we-dont-negotiate-with-terrorists/

Hard to argue with that colournoise, genuinely concerned what this country will look like for my kids

Agreed.

(Don't have kids, but teach enough of them to be concerned).

as a strong, awkward and influential part of a larger union: the EU. Now it has given up this place quite needlessly.

This is the thing for me: The whole Brexit thing is completely unnecessary. It's not as if the EU was holding this country back, it's not as if we were doing badly as part of the EU, quite the opposite. None of the things that people complain about will be solved by Brexit: Even if we reduce immigration, this is not the cause of our problems.

At a time when we should be focusing on improving this country and it's services, the next few years will now be dominated by the completely unnecessary Brexit negotiations, for what? To appease the RW media and the more extreme elements of the Tory party.

1/8th of the time for negotiating gone already! Let TM carry on for a bit longer, then another G.E and maybe it'll be too late for a settlement and we can forget it all.

We'd be better off with Noel Edmonds doing the negotiations. At least he has experience of making deals when time is short

I have a few issues with all this vitriol against tresemme.

1) She is actually a person and whether youre a Syrian refuge or the PM you shouldn't have to face hate.

2) I'm a lefty but they(blue) did get the most vote so if it ist TM then it'll be another one just the same and possibly worse.

3) She is (like it or not) our PM so undermining her hurts the people of the UK as much as it does her.

Lets have another election and get it right this time.

Lets have another election and get it right this time.

Best out of three, perhaps?

@colournoise I love articles like that just as I love it every time Guy Verhofstadt opens his mouth. It reminds me why Leave won.

@mikey after being left with a debilitating £90bn per anum deficit we continue to be correctly focused on the extra ordinarily difficult job of reigning in that un-sustainable level of spending.

@ctk well in your scenario we'd have an ultra hard WTO Brexit. If TM goes we'll have either David Davies or Boris Johnson leading the Conservatives and being Prime Minister. A speculative peice in the Telegragph suggests just that.

May, Davis or Johnson? Either way we are boned, the Robot, the Idiot or the Clown

Cfh... Best of 5 if it means not trashing the country !

I wouldn't trust DD or BJ to make me breakfast... If they manage to be in charge it's dark times ahead

@mikey after being left with a debilitating £90bn per anum deficit we continue to be correctly focused on the extra ordinarily difficult job of reigning in that un-sustainable level of spending.

A level of spending far below that of any other major economy who seem able to sustain it remarkably well

You'd prefer a soft brexit then Jamba? & agree that TM saying no deal is better than a bad deal was horseshit?

I wouldn't trust DD or BJ to make me breakfast...

How do you like your eggs hun? 🙂

@mikey after being left with a debilitating £90bn per anum deficit we continue to be correctly focused on the extra ordinarily difficult job of reigning in that un-sustainable level of spending.
A level of spending far below that of any other major economy who seem able to sustain it remarkably well

We can have as much poverty and austerity as we want. Until as a society we stop pointing fingers and saying that one should pay (the 5%) and decide that 100% of us need to be responsible. Now there are many things that can be done to make things better but while people want to be the 5%er rather than a happy 95%er it is not so easy.
Trouble is we are conditioned to strive to be a higher earner or to "progress" so people don't want to limit their imaginary futures...

I would rather see the Norwegian system were all tax records are public. Social pressure then stops avoidance.

A level of spending far below that of any other major economy who seem able to sustain it remarkably well

I am confused TJ, the UK's spending is not "far below any other major economy"

We could spend more like France and have VAT on food, no zero rated for children's clothes etc, full vat on gas and electric, much higher personal taxes accross the board. All this an Macron has to implement €50billion of budget cuts as France's debt / gdp is close to the li it set by the ECB. They have 10% general unemployment and 25% amongst the young. The Hollande govt asked hospitals to postpone all non urgent surgery this winter, sound familiar ?

CaptainFlashheart - Member

Lets have another election and get it right this time.

Best out of three, perhaps?

Should just have a vote every 3 months? 😆

TJ total govt spending is about £750 billion per anum. Thats a lot of money in anyone's book

jambalaya - Member
@colournoise I love articles like that just as I love it every time Guy Verhofstadt opens his mouth. It reminds me why Leave won.

Because you don't like foreigners?

teethgrinder - Member
Because you don't like foreigners?

How about this suggestion.

Dismantle the EU bureaucratic system first then everyone can sit down to decide who they want let in. EU bureaucratic system must be dismantled first. Win Win for everyone innit. 😈

[b]Which would you choose?

Q1. Dismantling the EU bureaucratic system?

Or

Q2. Letting EU/Non-EU people in?

You may only choose one. :P[/b]

[quote=wilburt ]3) She is (like it or not) our PM so undermining her hurts the people of the UK as much as it does her.

IMHO you're wrong - at least in the medium to long term, undermining Maybot benefits us all, since it will hasten the demise of the current Tory party.

[quote=jambalaya ]@colournoise I love articles like that just as I love it every time Guy Verhofstadt opens his mouth. It reminds me why Leave won.

By feeding the voters a load of completely unrealistic bullshit?

@ctk well in your scenario we'd have an ultra hard WTO Brexit.

In your not so humble opinion, because you'd prefer to ignore the other option, the only sane one.

If TM goes we'll have either David Davies or Boris Johnson leading the Conservatives and being Prime Minister.

DD, the man who encouraged TM to call an election? I can at least see some positives to BoJo being in charge - not least that he's even more bothered about his own interests than Maybot, but unlike her he's not afraid of making big decisions.

Because you don't like foreigners?

I dont dislike foreigners but i thought Guy Verhofstadt should STFU

As they are two completely stupid questions, Q2.

Fairly sure successive UK Governments had/have the ability to control non-EU immigration, anyway.

And as for Q1, is that the EU system you have researched and studied to form a cohesive, valid opinion, or what you read that was written in the right wing press by 'journalists' such as Boris Johnson?

jambalaya - Member

TJ total govt spending is about £750 billion per anum. Thats a lot of money in anyone's book

Yes - and that includes healthcare spending unlike Germany or France - and they raise and spend more tax as a % of gdp than we do - then you pay healthcare on top

~We are a low tax, small state, low wage economy with huge inequality and much dissatisfaction

You do know more equal countries are happier all round? Even the highly taxed rich are happier

We raise almost as little tax once you take healthcare out of the equation as the US. Now thats a happy society

I am confused TJ

correct - you are. 😉

teethgrinder - Member
As they are two completely stupid questions, Q2.

Fairly sure successive UK Governments had/have the ability to control non-EU immigration, anyway.

Which means dismantling the EU bureaucratic system. Good call. Yes, kick that basket case EU bureaucratic system into oblivion. 😆

Finally, someone with common sense.

The rest of you should fall in line and agree to dismantle the EU bureaucratic system.

And as for Q1, is that the EU system you have researched and studied to form a cohesive, valid opinion, or what you read that was written in the right wing press by 'journalists' such as Boris Johnson?

You are on the roll ... don't spoil it. 😈

Are you ****ing high?

teethgrinder - Member
Are you **** high?

No. They are not.

I said that the UK government had the ability to restrict non-EU immigration. For whatever reasons, they didn't. Nothing (like, really - NOTHING) to do with the EU.

And you do realise, UK outside of the EU will be 10x worse for bureaucracy? We (the UK) will still have to meet EU regs if we want to sell to the EU.

If TM goes we'll have either David Davies or Boris Johnson leading the Conservatives and being Prime Minister. A speculative peice in the Telegragph suggests just that.

Speculative in the extreme, since whichever tory suggested it haven't read their owns party's rules.

non eu immigtration is very tightly controlled indeed and getting residence permits is very difficult

teethgrinder - Member
No. They are not.

I said that the UK government had the ability to restrict non-EU immigration. For whatever reasons, they didn't. Nothing (like, really - NOTHING) to do with the EU.

I was referring to EU migrants.

Non-EU migrants have always faced restriction in this world regardless where they go, which is not an issue at all.

And you do realise, UK outside of the EU will be 10x worse for bureaucracy?

We (the UK) will still have to meet EU regs if we want to sell to the EU.

It works both ways (they comply with UK's we comply with theirs whatever

Ours will be the same as theirs, as we are just copying there's, of course we will need extra bureaucracy to manage all that.

Because as you fail to understand bureaucracy is good for a country, it ensures things like taxes are collected, schools and hospitals run well, laws are updated, food is safe, fire safety rules are in place etc etc etc....

bureaucracy is good for a country

There are degrees / levels for everything. Have you tired to do business in France, or worse still set one up ? The EU is full of ego-tists wanting to be "in charge" of stuff, tye amount of unessesary rules and regulations are staggering and they don't even properly enforce the ones they have !

The EU is full of ego-tists wanting to be "in charge" of stuff

#jambafact....

& the UK isn't???

Get out of your little sphere Jambas & smell the coffee, the EU isn't to blame for all & any evils you can possibly dream up to spin as a lie against the EVIL EU!

Ours will be the same as theirs, as we are just copying there's

Strange, wasn't it in fact them copying us 😉

Have you tired to do business in France, or worse still set one up ?

there is no subject he cannot do a non sequitur on?

The EU is full of ego-tists wanting to be "in charge" of stuff,

what govt does not want to be in charge of stuff...is it this one 😉

Strange, wasn't it in fact them copying u

Then why the F are we leaving???

😆

Tory Boi....the gift that keeps on giving..

the amount of unnecessary rules and regulations are staggering

Not allowing the cladding of buildings with flammable materials? [url= http://rochdaleherald.co.uk/2017/06/18/tower-block-residents-look-forward-less-health-safety-legislation-post-brexit/ ]That type of thing?[/url]

Have you tired to do business in France, or worse still set one up ?

Yup, an SARL with up to 9 employees. Compared with friends with businesses in the UK we suffered a lot less with duff cheques (because writing them is illegal), and a lot less with people setting up a business, raking in money and then beankrupting it leaving lots of suffering creditors then repeat.

Some bureaucracy is there to protect honest business people and stop the rogues. Britain could learn something.

Junior set himself up in business recently, it's a lot easier than it was. Minimal paperwork unless he earns more than he's likely to earn for the foreseeable future.

Philip Hammond's leadership campaign seems to be going pretty well

Campaign slogan....Vote for me! Have you seen the rest of them?

~We are a low tax, small state, low wage economy with huge inequality and much dissatisfaction

you forgot low-productivity...

binners - Member
Campaign slogan....Vote for me! Have you seen the rest of them?

Worked for May in her leadership contest

as for whos next, Hammond makes the most sensible noises

Johnson knows that hes marmite

Davis, well after his clueless repetition of empty soundbite before the brexit select comittee and his inspired encouraging of May to push for an early GE, hes hardly the sensible choice (to illustrate my point Farage backs him)
If the negotiations are seen to go well hes in with a shout, thats a big if, i suppose the divorce bill will be the first indication, but that wont be for another couple of months Id have thought

would 50-60bn be too much for our lovely press and the backbenchers polishing Mays guillotine?

I'd expect the next few months to be a lot of distancing from anything bad, shitty or unpopular aiming to swoop in for the great save

TurnerGuy - Member

you forgot low-productivity...

Yes, but that's actually true, so why add it to the list?

(ok some folk are dissatisfied, granted. Btw, only testing to see if a little marker has appeared after a surprise pressie - gosh it has, how kind)

I see the STW Tory supporters tag-team has just quadrupled. 😀

I see the STW Tory supporters tag-team has just quadrupled.

At least the Conservative party can take heart that their support base is increasing somewhere 😀

oldracwr I want to get out of [b]their[/b] little sphere. I have always worked in globally facing business and soent 11 years at what is probably the worlds most diverse financial institution. The EU has become a superstate project obsessed with "size" and it has got almost everything from money to security completely wrong - no thanks.

I see the STW Tory supporters tag-team has just quadrupled.

What was it 90% of the respondents on whonare you voting thread said Labour. Clearly not representative of the membership just indicative of the culture here. Most of a different view choose not to contribute

feel free to follow their lead 😉

I still work for a world leading manufacturing company based in the UK so I have a quite different perspective to Jamba funnily enough.
My colleagues worldwide think (and I agree) that the country I was so proud of has become a laughing stock. But what do we know. We only make stuff (and sell it very successfully worldwide - not just into Europe).
Buggering up trading relations with one of your biggest partners doesn't seem clever to me. But not being a global financier, I clearly don't understand.

So Jamba, tell us how we will be better off without any EU red tape & pesky bosses telling us what to do when we are going to have to replace said tape & bosses with tape & bosses of our own so we can sell stuff to someone we already sell to??

I am not in high finance like you city slickers but I do know that some of my customers are foreign.
If they are not here they are not spending money in my shop.
My takings go down and so does the tax the government takes from me.

When we moved back to France à few weeks ago, I was expecting à world of pain for admin stuff but if you follow the instructions and take your time it is fine.

I have always worked in globally facing business and soent 11 years at what is probably the worlds most diverse financial institution

Yet none of this diversity rubbed off on you. That's a bit sad really. Can't understand someone who boasts of experiencing such diversity could end up so bigoted.

Jamba gives the impression that he knows a thing or two up there in whatever financial institution he works in.

Jamba at work....

[img] [/img]

You sure? Isn't that David Davis and Liam Fox?

Where's Wewwity?

Boris in candid "no-wig" moment shocker...

What was it 90% of the respondents on whonare you voting thread said Labour. Clearly not representative of the membership just indicative of the culture here. Most of a different view choose not to contribute

speculation.

Still no agreement with the DUP, just seen a news account who think they are arguing about when they can fly flags. FFS flags

We really are plumbing new depths when the marching season is what is keeping the government in power.

Scottish gov just released Arlene Foster's letter (that she claims didnt exist) asking Scotland not to let gay NI couples marry in Scotland

the tories want to empower these bigots when theyve just taken a hammering from the youth vote- it is beyond stupid

especially when Davidson has so much power in the Tory party

The present Tory leadership are the most clueless in decades

what are the odds on the queens speech not getting passed

Haven't been following the Orange surge. They're not [i]really[/i] doing [i]flags[/i] are they? 😀

Democratic Unionist Party sources have urged the Conservatives to give a "greater focus" to negotiations between the parties.
A senior DUP source said the party could not be "taken for granted" - adding that if the PM could not reach a deal, "what does that mean for bigger negotiations she is involved in?"
The Conservatives are hoping the DUP will sustain their minority government.
But no deal has been reached after 10 days of talks between the parties.

they know May is desperate and theyve seen how weak she is, theyll be milking this for every bit of petty, divisive one-upmanship they can manage

Surely talking to the lib Dems would be easier?
She could offer soft brexit or a second vote.
Then everything that ever goes wrong will all be Cable's fault.

I dont think the lib dems will fall for that trick twice

If the lib dems were really committed to staying in Europe they could 'take one for the team' and make a second referendum a condition in the Queens speech.

PS Yes I am joking and I know that won't happen 🙂 Although it would be hilarious watching the spectacle of rabid brexiteering tories voting down their own party.

In related news did I imagine a news headline today where Michael Heseltine was warning that 2% of tory voters die off each year?

EDIT - found it - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/conservative-voters-dying-off-lord-michael-heseltine-tory-part-elderly-support-base-pensioners-a7798386.html
Not quite 2% when you read beyond the headline!

The libdems won't go anywhere near the tories - and that, i think, will be reinforced if vince becomes leader.
As for eu bureaucracy, compliance with OJEU regs has been a public sector job creation scheme. Then there are the myriad legal specialists selling advice and training courses which build cost into any public sector tender/procurement.
Regulated businesses are similarly afflicted.
I would be surprised if the current or future govs implemented any significant changes or simplified any of this.
The sight of david davis trying to act big and talk up the uk's position yesterday was risible.
He is a perfect example of the 'peter principle' - being promoted beyond the level of his (in)competence.

As for eu bureaucracy, compliance with OJEU regs has been a public sector job creation scheme.

So you are imagining having fewer regs after Brexit?

The libdems won't go anywhere near the tories - and that, i think, will be reinforced if vince becomes leader.

@molgrips - no, I don't anticipate fewer regs post brexit; I made that clear in my post.
I was and remain very pro EU membership; brexit will, i fear, be bad for uk.

DUP confirmed they will vote for the Queens Speech with or without a deal. They are 100% committed to not having a Corbyn / McDonnell IRA/Sinn Fein sympathising government. They also support the May vision of Brexit (as frankly does Corbyn and the Labour Manifesto)

Well they are bunch of ****s then.