I am seeing the ladders being pulled up almost everywhere…

Is this you Kimbers ?

( and I don’t mean the bloke with the wig showing up the other one for being very partial with the truth )

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHzmCHcM7cA[/video]

no, i have a wig 😛

Posted by Nicola Sturgeon on Tuesday, January 17, 2017

meanwhile

http://www.itv.com/news/utv/update/2017-01-17/hard-brexit-equals-hard-border-sinn-fein/

No, you can’t just default to WTO, you need to apply (and be accepted).

We are already a member and will not need to accede – the Director General of the WTO has been clear on this – he was also clear we will need to renegotiate the terms of our membership.

he was also clear we will need to renegotiate the terms of our membership.

can we start negotiations b4 the 2 year deadline or is it like other trade deals?

he was also clear we will need to renegotiate the terms of our membership.[/I]

“The UK is a member of the WTO today, it will continue to be a member tomorrow. There will be no discontinuity in membership. They have to renegotiate [terms of their membership] but that doesn’t mean they are not members.”

Like still paying gym membership fees but we’ve had to give up our locker? 😉

agree with cleggy too

its one last kick in the nuts from the baby boomers

The prime minister has pledged to act in the interests of the young and future generations. Yet she has now set herself on a course which emphatically rejects what the overwhelming majority of young voters said they wanted in the Brexit referendum. Claiming to represent the interests of the young whilst pursuing a hard Brexit which will damage their interests will only deepen the generational divide highlighted by the Brexit referendum. This speech is a kick in the teeth for the youth of Britain.”

Can you imagine.. not training enough scientists, and then letting the ones we do have end up serving coffee or flipping burgers cos there’s no funding for them to do anything..

Hope this doesn’t happen. Let’s hope this bollocks ends up forcing the government to do its job properly after all these years.

A Tory government, who’s more barking mad right-wing elements are already dictating policy, given a blank sheet of paper to effectively re-write the constitution when all those EU regulations cease to apply?

With an ‘opposition’ in name only, totally unfit for purpose?

I’m sure it’all all be fine, and they’ll base all decisions on what’s in the best interests of us all, and not just big business and the rich

mefty and what happens in the period when there are no agreed WTO terms?

On day one we may be members but there is no agreement therefore are we actually members?

Also minor details, Argentina and the Falklands, we won’t accept the negotiations unless you give us access to the Falklands and a royalty on all oil exploration….

Just business after all.

Hope this doesn’t happen. Let’s hope this bollocks ends up forcing the government to do its job properly after all these years.

1970’s the UK failed then, i see no improvement in quality of leadership since then, so why expect better. Yes you can hope but hope doesn’t keep the IMF from the door.

We get the politicians we deserve 🙁

She might as well call a snap election now – they’ll take England by a landslide, Scotland will re-elect SNP, lord only knows what we’ll do in Wales – Plaid will do well on a 20% turnout.

Excellent insight there. Thankfully offering opinions on stuff we have no idea about is no longer a problem in this political age…….

http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN06111

1970’s the UK failed then, i see no improvement in quality of leadership since then, so why expect better.

Because in the 1970s, the 1970s hadn’t happened. Nor had Thatcher or Blair. Now they have.

But why bring it up? I’m not suggesting renatinalising everything am I? I’m just talking about the government actually investing strategically in industry and development.

theotherjonv – Member

She might as well call a snap election now – they’ll take England by a landslide, Scotland will re-elect SNP, lord only knows what we’ll do in Wales – Plaid will do well on a 20% turnout.

Excellent insight there. Thankfully offering opinions on stuff we have no idea about is no longer a problem in this political age…….

http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN06111

Are you saying that the people who decided to make a law that says they have to have fixed term governments, can’t make another one that says the opposite now they’re stronger in goverment?

Can you imagine.. not training enough scientists, and then letting the ones we do have end up serving coffee or flipping burgers cos there’s no funding for them to do anything.. the Uni’s have packed themselves with cheaper EU staff

For too long British Uni’s have failed to invest in training for their own (UK) students and relied on a steady stream of cheap imports. This hopefully make Uni’s adapt to the new environment and will allow UK students more of a chance.

I voted remain but I’m not seeing the funding apocalypse personally, doesnt EU funding cover a smallish fraction in reality? I read around 9.7 percent last time.

For too long British Uni’s have failed to invest in training for their own (UK) students and relied on a steady stream of cheap imports. This hopefully make Uni’s adapt to the new environment and will allow UK students more of a chance.

What do you think happens when the non-UK students (who pay handsomely for the privilege) stop attending UK Universities?

Clue: It won’t mean more places for UK students…

For too long British Uni’s have failed to invest in training for their own (UK) students

On casual discussion with some engineering uni professor/tutor type, it was suggested the unis rely on the furen students to stay afloat.

Still, taking paying students is the way forward. That way if the students underperform the uni’s will kick them off the course as they are well motived to only ensure the good students stay on the course and get qualifications.

Have I got that wrong? I have, haven’t I?

EU students pay little into Uni’s, it isfrom elsewhere where the money is to be made, hence, focus on Asia, and Middle East for recruitment.

However, my point was more around the jump from student to Researcher, for too long the Uni’s have taken on cheaper EU researchers as they can pay them less than the UK equivalent and complain that the EU ones are better qualified, while completely ignoring they were responsible for educating their own.

Tom_W1987 – Member
I voted remain but I’m not seeing the funding apocalypse personally, doesnt EU funding cover a smallish fraction in reality? I read around 9.7 percent last time.

10-20% iirc but even at the lower end- still 1 in 10 jobs!

but I have friends at the EBI and sanger who are very worried as they were Horizon 2020 funded
The Crick has just opened too, they were planning on 20-30% EU funding! a lot of empty labs there at the moment

EU students pay little into Uni’s, it isfrom elsewhere where the money is to be made, hence, focus on Asia, and Middle East for recruitment.

Indeed the focus is shifting to higher fee paying asian and middle eastern students to compensate for the lost EU revenue.
As someone who supervises students, give me an EU or UK student who got their place on merit over a non-eu student who has bought their place, it makes my job much less painful

However, my point was more around the jump from student to Researcher, for too long the Uni’s have taken on cheaper EU researchers as they can pay them less than the UK equivalent and complain that the EU ones are better qualified, while completely ignoring they were responsible for educating their own.

IME thats bobbins, PIs want the best people for the job, wherever they come from, science pay is poor, that is hardly the fault of the EU, when our own government invests so little

flipping burgers cos …. the Uni’s have packed themselves with cheaper EU staff

Hang on. Eastern European fruit pickers are undercutting locals because they can be bussed over cheaply. And possibly plumbers, who can control their own prices. But are you suggesting Unis are paying Eastern European postgrads and teachers less than British ones? Even though they will be living in the UK?

Bit of a bombshell if true, don’t you think?

Are you saying that the people who decided to make a law that says they have to have fixed term governments, can’t make another one that says the opposite now they’re stronger in goverment?

Broadly, yes.

In theory, everything’s possible, but 1/ it wouldn’t be a snap election, it would have to follow either a dissolution vote of some sort which ain’t going to happen mid-Brexit (certainly not for tactical reasons, depending on how things go in the next few months it could yet go completely tits up where a no-confidence is a possibility) or a vote to change the legislation and 2/ whether ‘stronger’ or not they don’t have sufficient majority to be confident they’d get the legislation changed anyway.

However, my point was more around the jump from student to Researcher, for too long the Uni’s have taken on cheaper EU researchers as they can pay them less than the UK equivalent and complain that the EU ones are better qualified, while completely ignoring they were responsible for educating their own.

Odd – none of the three universities I and my girlfriend have worked in as researchers and/or lecturers (not to mention the many more we have applied for jobs at) have shown any evidence of operating this way… They tend to be very transparent about salary levels, particularly for entry-level posts.

However, my point was more around the jump from student to Researcher, for too long the Uni’s have taken on cheaper EU researchers as they can pay them less than the UK equivalent and complain that the EU ones are better qualified, while completely ignoring they were responsible for educating their own.

Usual pile of Brexit sh1te. What else did you expect?

I remain very confused.

We have had lots of articles like this over the past seven months:

Brexit is a rejection of globalisation (Guardian, June 2016)

Globalisation as we know it is over – and Brexit is the biggest sign yet (Guardian, July 2016)

Globalisation backlash was behind Donald Trump victory and Brexit vote (IB Times, Nov 2016)

Brexit is start of anti-globalisation revolt says gloomy IMF (The Times, Oct 2016)

Brexit Britain turns against globalisation, blaming it for low UK wages (Independent, Dec 2016)

Trump’s Win, Brexit Vote Stem From Mishandling of Globalization, Obama Says (Wall Street Journal, Nov 2016)

”Brexit” in America: A Warning Shot Against Globalization (NY Times, June 2016)

etc etc

So if it was all a vote against globalisation then why is Theresa May stood at a lectern signed “A Global Britain” saying:

I want us to be a truly Global Britain – the best friend and neighbour to our European partners, but a country that reaches beyond the borders of Europe too.
…
A great, global trading nation that is respected around the world and strong, confident and united at home.
…
June the 23rd was not the moment Britain chose to step back from the world. It was the moment we chose to build a truly Global Britain.
…
It was a vote to restore, as we see it, our parliamentary democracy, national self-determination, and to become even more global and internationalist in action and in spirit.
…
the great prize for this country – the opportunity ahead – is to use this moment to build a truly Global Britain. A country that reaches out to old friends and new allies alike. A great, global, trading nation. And one of the firmest advocates for free trade anywhere in the world.
…
A Global Britain must be free to strike trade agreements with countries from outside the European Union too.
…
it is time for Britain to get out into the world and rediscover its role as a great, global, trading nation.
…
we are a great, global nation with so much to offer Europe and so much to offer the world.
…
Not merely forming a new partnership with Europe, but building a stronger, fairer, more Global Britain too.

That’s a whole lot of “globals” for someone implementing the result of a vote against globalisation. 😕

If anything it sounds like more globalisation, not less.

I’m confused.

Time to start lobbying MPs to vote against the final deal I think.

However, my point was more around the jump from student to Researcher, for too long the Uni’s have taken on cheaper EU researchers as they can pay them less than the UK equivalent

You mean that I can pay my EU postdocs less than my UK ones? I never knew that. I’d best send an email to HR complaining that they haven’t being doing their job properly by assigning researchers jobs to nationally set and agreed salary scales regardless of the employees origin or nationality.

and complain that the EU ones are better qualified,

The EU is a big place. At the moment we get lots of people wanting to come here because much of the UK’s science is better than the rest of Europe. In effect we get the pick of the cream from the entire EU. So it isn’t that ALL EU researchers are better qualified, it is just the ones that want to come here. And they are largely the reason why UK science is so much better than it would be if we had to rely solely on homegrown researchers.

while completely ignoring they were responsible for educating their own

I keep trying to write an answer to this but it just turns into an angry rant about, well almost everything to do with society’s expectation that education is all about the teachers. People have to be willing to be taught and able to learn too. Precious few students I meet have what is truly required to go all the way. Those we do find we encourage and nurture, but there just aren’t enough in the UK to fulfill requirements.

So, she wanted to negotiate access to the single market and has been told to do one. It comes out now that this was part of the plan what didn’t exist until today. 😕
Nutter.

Time to start lobbying MPs to vote against the final deal I think.

That vote will be a sham.
It will be a “final deal or WTO” rubber stamping of the deal.
MPs, now they have a broad outline of where the government are going, need to act now.

Time to start lobbying MPs to vote against the final deal I think.

Don’t think this will have an effect. I wrote to my Dorking MP Paul Beresford and he said he will vote for the exit because it is the will of the people. Odd given his constituents voted Remain. He said most MPs will vote as he does.

Don’t think this will have an effect. I wrote to my Dorking MP Paul Beresford and he said he will vote for the exit because it is the will of the people. Odd given his constituents voted Remain. He said most MPs will vote as he does.

Rally the troops then, as soon as he sees that the people who voted him into his current job are letting him know that they won’t be giving him the job next time and I’m sure he’ll have a moment of clarity.

Nope, because by the next GE there will no point voting out MPs because of their views on our membership of any European institution, we’ll be out of the lot.

We’re in democratic limbo.

There is no way to make MPs do their job between now and our exit, we are relying on them choosing to do so.

We are leaving the EU. That is going to change. The only variable is what are the new terms of access to the single market

At the moment, “we” are looking for a bespoke deal based on a soft FTA

You mean that I can pay my EU postdocs less than my UK ones?

No but because you have cheap pool of labour the pay is artificially held down, and doesn’t match what a UK PhD student will get by moving outside of academia. The Uni’s model to is very similar to the Premier League, why develop your own talent when you can buy experienced, cheaper talent from elsewhere?

Incidentally Spain recognised their academic brain drain problem long ago and had grants to attract the best Spanish researchers back home.

. The Uni’s model to is very similar to the Premier League, why develop your own talent when you can buy experienced, cheaper talent from elsewhere??

Just repeating the same made up statement doesn’t make it correct.

Our lab has people from, Wales, England,China, America, Germany, Italy, Scotland, France etc

Should we only be hiring British staff?

So, wages are kept low in the Premier League because clubs can employ foreign players?