Zwift Team Time Trial, Thursday

a few years ago when struggling with boredom who would have thought riding a turbo would have moved on to this!

a few years ago when struggling with boredom who would have thought riding a turbo would have moved on to this!

yeah, I remember buying a turbo years ago, doing two rides on TrainerRoad and thinking nahhh! Dragged it out again when Zwift appeared. This has taken it to a whole new level though! The interactivity/level of immersion is amazing, literally have no time to even think about getting bored!!

Here is the updated MoreSTW pull list. @mbs is on the MoreSTW team. I have reordered it so it is 1 min pulls then 30 second pull. I will have a copy of the list and so will w00dster. w00dster will do the calls on the ground.

Looking forward to it.

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Taking into account nixie’s point. On the climbs we climb at halorics pace. karnali in front of him keeping the gap down to 1m and w00dster at the back to monitor the whole group.

Teams are all sorted, nothing has changed for most of you. It looks like tags are all set.

STW – 12 minute start delay

@phil56

@paino

@nixie

@yanboss

@munkeymadness

@trolo1234

@scaredypants

@rj2dj

MoreSTW – 5 minute start delay & check you’ve seen tactical plans upthread

@w00dster

@karnali

@slowpuncheur

@mbs

@robbo1234biking

@zilog6128

@drew

@haloric

Have a good ride. See if you can all get to the finish line (unlike me!).

I have just something small to add to the MoreSTW brainstorm (@w00dster @karnali @slowpuncheur @mbs @robbo1234biking @zilog6128 @drew @haloric)

It’s a proof of concept this week, which isn’t supposed to be perfect or optimal. If your allocated responsibility is too much, of course you should say so live this evening. It’s OK to miss pulls and sit in. Every time someone ends up behind you in that case you are still doing a job for the team for example. So the floor is movable! But the ceiling is deliberately, for some of you, not supposed to be pushed higher tonight. A good outcome this evening would be that some of you feel like you could have pushed harder, or longer, or whatever. If that is the case, stick to the plan this evening, hold back for the team, get to the end in formation, and report back later so it can be adjusted next week.

what happened to your ride Adam ? dropout ?

No, much simpler than that. I got dropped (2nd time up the KOM).

Jesus, that must be some powerful team you ride with !

No, much simpler than that. I got dropped

Serves you right for winning on Tuesday! (bloody good effort on that by the way)

I found the link posted on the previous page giving some guidance on how to do them (and specifically things to look out for in Zwift) really interesting. Hopefully get to put some of it into practice tonight!

I guess I should be aiming for 30-45 second pulls @ 110% of FTP and see how I go?

Thanks @savoyad that’s good advice. My thoughts are how do we know if the ‘concept’ works? As far as I can see, we don’t have a benchmark to work from. How do we know if this is quicker for us than the normal blob with the stronger riders taking a bit more wind than the less strong? Do you see rival teams who tend to make similar times or would we need to set a benchmark time in a meetup maybe? I’m probably overthinking things now…

rj2dj – you’re in STW, right ?
Not sure that “we’re” doing the same process. In my experience there’s a big spread of power in STW and I just do what I can on the front without battering myself to failure* (and also trying to save a bit for the hills). Not much chance of me meaningfully leading a team with some of those guys riding. They say that even just staying with a bunch helps it a little bit, so I’m sticking with that

*Course, your watts may be more plentiful than mine

Honestly in my view @rj2dj you really don’t need to aim for anything other than familiarisation with the whole process tonight. Focus on starting successfully with the team (!) then riding with them, then getting deep into the race etc. Maybe close any gaps that open if you are well placed for that.
STW won’t (as far as I know!) ride with the structure MoreSTW are planning. @phil56 will be on the discord voice channel and will look after you etc.
EDIT – @scaredypants beat me to it, basically.

It’s a good point and I think there is an element of trust in people like nixie who ride on fast teams as well as info available on the internet through Zwift insider etc.

We don’t have a benchmark to compare to so would have to go on how it feels tonight. Another aspect is whether being more tactical adds enjoyment to the experience and ensuring that everyone feels their construction has made a difference.

I would be happy to do a meet-up to do some testing (we have a Tuesday evening comping up in 12 days that is free?!) to try some different stuff.

@haloric
what s realistic w/kg for you up the hills, so I know what i’m aiming at to ride just infront.

@w00dster

@robbo1234biking
Just shout at me on discord if I need to go harder or easier on the hills, i’ll do a check that I can hear in the pen but i struggle to talk much and ride at same time, I’ll do my best, but assume i’m ok on checks etc. I’ll make it known if i’m not!
Looking forward to it be fun to see how it pans out, just hope i move out of the start without a delay like last week.

@rj2dj for a first time out the most important thing is not to jump start. That means 30s before the event starts you need to be putting out 0W (there is a safety margin put in there). There are two ways to do that 1. Don’t pedal :D. 2. sit in the pairing screen. With the 12 minute delay you will probably want to keep the legs warm while we wait. This only safe way to do that is sitting in the pairing screen. Then when we get close to launch stop pedaling, wait for the turbo to stop, then exiting the pairing screen ready to go.

If you do manage to jump start (it happens even to regulars) don’t panic. Stop pedalling and get into the pairing screen to kill your power. Then wait for our proper start.

Serves you right for winning on Tuesday!

Thanks Brian. The two are probably not unconnected. I usually ride (at least one) short crit crushers race Weds breakfast time after a Tues eve race, which sounds a bit mad but I don’t ride for placings, it’s a totally different kind of effort, spins the legs out nicely etc. There was absolutely no chance of that yesterday morning, I couldn’t get out of bed let alone on a bike. I felt much better later on but no doubt this morning was an extension of that.

whats realistic w/kg for you up the hills, so I know what i’m aiming at to ride just infront.

Thats a good question but I don’t really know – it depends on the hill – I don’t think there is much drafting on these hills, so if you are anywhere near, in front or alongside is fine – I’ll be putting in what I can bearing in mind when I last did a turn on the front. My FTP is 268 @ 92kg, so close to 3w/kg

My biggest problem on these TTT is getting dropped near the brow of the hill, and not being able to get back on – the rest is gravy.

I’m gonna drop my trainer sensitivity, as I normally have it 60%+ but end up winding through the gears, and I’ll change to 3sec power.

@haloric the trick we (BRT) have used at the top is for the rider(s) in your position to put a big spurt in over the top (I realise that can be a big ask). The speed boost and virtual gravity keep you in the mix as it goes down.

bollocks – computer crapped out. I’m screwed, sorry

Same here scaredy, wouldn’t let me leave the pairing screen. Was trying from 30 seconds to go. Everyone left then it took me to Richmond.
Absolutely gutted. Think I need to ask the forum techies what I need to improve my wireless in the garage.

Thanks guys, that was really good. Great work as DS Phil. There is a recording here if your interested;

Thanks guys, sorry couldn’t make the last 5k – seemed like I was in the red for a long time for at least the first half of the race, never really got any rythmn or rest somehow – seemed to be over 300w a lot of the time when not on. the front, will have to consult the stats to see if thats true or I’m just under par.

re not leaving the pairing screen – I doubt that is a wifi issue, exactly the same happened to Jack on the last ttt he did, more likely a coding error, dealing with some network event. Similar issues happen with leaving the garage, particularly on large rides.

Well that was a voyage of discovery. Thanks to all in TeamSTW for bearing with me. I could in fact hear you all the way round, and see you most of the way round (but never on the back straight after we went through the mountain and past the waterfall – so I just had to guess how much power to put out at that point. So that, coupled with my phone decided to go into a boot loop for 2 our of 3 laps and not being able to reach the laptop keyboard to type, meant I just had to get on with it!

Have never used Discord before, I think I need to have it in my ears, but then I would need a push to talk function or I would drive you all crazy with my heavy breathing! What is everyone else using?

The actual bike riding seemed like a sideshow compared to solving all the various technical issues I had!

Does that stream have Phil’s audio when he realised he was still on the mtb 😁😁

@rj2dj I use discord on my phone (attached to bars) and use the push to talk setting. That way I don’t need to mute myself. Cheap Bluetooth speaker headphones with a mic seem to do the trick.
Great effort guys, carried decent speed up those climbs.

i got stuck in the garage at 7.30 and had to re load was just grateful it had made the changes back to a road bike from a mtb! I use in ear headphones and push to talk for discord as my turbo and music make so much noise.

thanks @robbo1234biking enjoyed that, i think it would be easier to work on on a flatter course, slight rises and falls make a big difference to power output for me. Bit there were times I thought that looked promising and it was much less blobby for large parts of the ride, thanks for all your workings out. I too had family taking the mick about spreadsheets and power targets!!

@haloric you did a good job pacing the first two hills. Thanks.

What did people think? Didn’t quite go to plan with w00dster’s technical issues but I was surprised to see the results were quite encouraging.

I did that ttt course back in September with Phil. My 3 laps and average watts were:

14:20 279w
14:32 272w
14:28 269w

Tonight:

14:25 271w
14:40 250w
14:29 250W

So very similar pace but about 10-15% less power. Through the esses and flat section we went well. We stayed together on the climb well. We could prob have pushed a bit harder on the plateau on the first two climbs but overall it went well.

What did others think?

I think that worked great! (MoreSTW). Looking at my numbers (avg watts & HR), very similar to usual, maybe slightly lower avg HR, but it felt easier (albeit was definitely working hard to hang on for the last lap!!) and managed a strong sprint finish whereas normally I have little/nothing left at the end! (No idea how we fared as a group though vs. How we normally do?)

Definitely a bit scrappy – there were times I was doing 300W in the back trying to stay on when it wasn’t even my turn at the front 😂 and quite often found myself having to do 400W to move up to take my turn! Few times we let too big a gap form at the front I think which made it hard for the next man to take his turn. But overall – really good! Stayed together really well even on the climbs.

Hope you all got a good ride in – sorry again

Mine wasn’t (entirely) zwift’s fault – shambles on my part

I assume I’ve drowned my keyboard in sweat, so initially couldnt log in to windows but because the password was blanked I couldn’t see that I was typing gobbledegook (more than normal!)

Swapped to a new keyboard and got logged in but I think windows must’ve been cross with me for trying so many times and had to re-restart. Then logged on to zwift with plenty of time and started discord.
That made my pc shut down again so restarted with very little time left. started discord again and my password wasn’t working so tried it on my phone to scan the screen but that also wouldn’t log in

Looked up at the screen with about 3 min to go and I was pedalling round somewhere that wasn’t watopia (maybe Ricmond, like woodster). ended ride & back in again but didn’t make it in time (or at least didn’t get the “join” button).

Maybe it’s just all the wet weather buggering up the pc, although the keyboard was doing odd things initially; hoping just that

Ah well, did a workout and got to eat dinner with MrsP (fair enough, it is our anniversary ! 🤣 )

(Oh, and I was still on the MTB too !)

@rj2dj you did really well to keep with us with all the issues.

For discord I gave up on using my phone as it used to cause the companion app to die. That was on an older phone though. Now I use a set of tredz titanium headphones for listening and an old web cam on the TV for the microphone. Both connected to discord on the PC running zwift. I have voice activation turned on as well as noise cancelling.

@paino sadly no sound on the video. The headset was interfering with the streaming softwares sound and I couldn’t work out why before the start.

I assume I’ve drowned my keyboard in sweat, so initially couldnt log in to windows but because the password was blanked I couldn’t see that I was typing gobbledegook (more than normal!)

Swapped to a new keyboard and got logged in but I think windows must’ve been cross with me for trying so many times and had to re-restart. Then logged on to zwift with plenty of time and started discord.
That made my pc shut down again so restarted with very little time left. started discord again and my password wasn’t working so tried it on my phone to scan the screen but that also wouldn’t log in

Thank you, you’ve just helped me decide to stick with my iPad and not get a laptop for Zwift 😉

I’m on a big old telly in the garage and I’ve one of those “meeting” webcams on top of the screen and I’ve bodged a fairing out of a squash bottle the keep the wind off the mic

Works well as far as I know – people tend to say they can hear me OK

Weird – just looked at the results and I’m partially recorded on team STW while woodster isn’t, plus phil doesn’t show at all either 🤷‍♂️

Thank you, you’ve just helped me decide to stick with my iPad and not get a laptop for Zwift 😉

(replacement is going in a plastic bag 😎 )

Much more satisfied with my performance this week. Took quite a lot of focus through the undulating sections. Being at the heavier end I can happily draught at the back at 3 W/kg whilst everyone else is doing 4. A moments hesitation as the gradient goes up though and the gap starts growing quickly!

Not sure if the hills were just smaller and less steep than last week or I managed to avoid overdoing and blowing up this time but nice to get to the finish all together.

Thanks all

It took me a while to dial in the right power for pulls. The squad I have been in 5-6wpkg is the usual pull (400-420ish W for 30-60s). I kept defaulting to that instead of less for longer.

I think that was good and definitely something to build on. We communicated well (thanks @Robbo1234biking for calling it). My weighted power average was comparable to previous weeks but average power slightly less than last week so I reckon that means there was more resting in the line. I certainly felt I had a bit more left in the tank at the end- to the extent that I took off for the line far too early. Still that daft effort gave me PBs for 1 min and 2 min power. It’ll be interesting to see where we faired in the rankings.

I also enjoyed the longer recovery times and felt stronger at the finish than usual. I think we did pretty well all things considered. I don’t think that’s an easy route as it’s very rarely flat. I find it quite hard to keep to a steady power output when on the front so hope it wasn’t too up and down.

I find it quite hard to keep to a steady power output when on the front

yeah me too, between 250-350 at times! Probably averaged out ok though 🤣 definitely up for trying that again next week!

Thanks for posting the video @Nixie

I was with you the whole way round, but only appear on the video at about 24:50, about half way round lap 2. From memory i think this coincides with my phone finally exiting its boot loop and restarting the companion app. It’s a bit odd as i didn’t think the companion app was a necessity, and it still doesnt explain why you all disappeared off my laptop screen on the back straight each lap! Discord on the phone was what caused the issue – seemed to clash with the companion app, as someone above has mentioned.

I’ll get something sorted for next time. Found the person issuing instructions really helpful – thank you for that. FElt like each lap we did we got better at staying together and passing other teams.

Looking at the results it looks like, not too far off top-100 for our class.

There is definatley merit in trying it again. Comparing results to the last time we rode that course (only Zilog and I finished both courses of the people who rode on both teams) but the results show similar time for lower power output.

24th September: 43:56
Zilog: 244w
Me: 272w

Last Night: 44:08
Zilog: 233w
Me: 257w

Next week is Greater London Flat so a much better course to try it on:

https://zwiftinsider.com/route/greater-london-flat/

I was interested to see that my average heart rate was a whole 10 bpm lower than the previous tt in spite of the average watts being only 2 less. 1m power and 30s power were both up reflecting me taking turns on the front for a change and explains why, although I feel less tired overall, I can feel it in my legs this morning.