Zwift Team Time Trial, Thursday

I thought that went really well! Everyone taking a turn when the pace dropped, and we kept it together over the rollers and up the hill, and then a big push at the end 👍🏻

To be fair drew you should have had another minute rest before each pull! Through the desert everyone should have done 3 x 30 second. Instead everyone has to do an extra pull have less rest and work harder to stay on the pack.

That was horrendous. I think I did a bit too much too early. I didn’t expect it to be over an hour, I do need to do some background in future.
I also struggled with doing a pull on the front. I’d have to be doing over 70 watts over my FTP to get to the front and stay there. As we were blobbing rather than riding in order it was hard to work out when was my turn to go back to the front, I think I did a few turns when I should have been resting. On lap 2 I could only just about hang on, looked at the distance to go when it said 17kms and almost stepped off the bike, I was dying!!
When I got dropped on the climb, I think my sweat dropped on the iPad and changed my app to Netflix as that came on, the screen was soaking so wouldn’t let me change back to zwift wothout wiping away the sweat….nice! Managed to get back on thanks to a couple of guys dropping back but I was completely done in.
No FTP bump for me, Zwift companion says 1 hour 8 minutes and 264 watts, my FTP is 263 according to the last test I did.

That was tough – I’m impressed by you guys doing this week after week. My experience was very much like @w00dster – I managed a couple of pulls at the start but they were so much above FTP it was soon all I could do to hold to the group.

So I’m sorry I didn’t manage to contribute much but hopefully having a slightly bigger blob helped a tiny bit.

Yeah there is no way I could have done that after a Tuesday race!

I’ve just watched that video talking about the art of dropping off the front and I think it’s probably useful but potentially quite a ballache (interesting that team STW tried and quite liked it though !) – I found the same as ^ you, that you have to batter it to get onto the front or else get stuck in 2nd place. Then again, maybe that somehow “pushes” the lead rider on a bit but if it doesn’t then we’re all burning watts to no real effect, just to stall behind number 1.

I suppose a team that took things really seriously might call the changes and get the front man to deliberately drop the power at the same time as someone’s coming through but I bet you could get nearly all the way to the same result if the lead rider just came on & said “dropping” which meant “I’m cutting my power in 5 seconds” and the next rider then knows to kick on from a bit further back.

That way you’d avoid trying to pass a strong rider before they’re ready to drop off (and not feel guilty about sitting in while they’re still happy)

??

1:03:51 for MoreSTW. Belter!
Couple of times I tried the 0 watt sink to the back, and it worked nicely. But you’ve really got to learn when to put the power back and smooth enough to not come sailing back through the pack as I did a few times. Then I got stuck mid pack, not resting properly and end up blobbing the team up.

I guess though there is a big discrepancy between our power, for example, I’m 69kgs and only 263 ftp. On the flat I’m at 330 to 340 watts. Then I was having to average 250 watts to stay in the pack (on lap 1).
I think it will work, just needs more thought and agreement in the order and how we move through the pack. I do like the sound of the front rider advising he is about to drop, but the second place rider needs to be defined, so they know it is their turn. Even if they are only putting out 290 or 4.1 w/kg, the other riders would need to stay behind and not come through.

I don’t think the optimum is for #2 to take over, woodster – they seem to think that someone coming from further back works best (they get up to higher speed for the same “push” I suppose, before they hit the front). Wouldn’t matter though – if I knew I was after you I could be “lazing” at #4 or so and then kick on just before you dropped your power as long as you gave 5 secs or so notice

TBH, I’m a bit “meh” about it – I like the workout probably more than the result (suppose that might change if we suddenly became brilliant but I’ve said before, a mid-pack B like me is not a part of a winning team). I’d happily do it though – wouldn’t make me enjoy it any less

A mixed experience then?! I think technical issues were pretty widespread last night. Keep those verdicts coming…The next two weeks are double novelties anyway (bologna, the alpe; on christmas eve and nye) so I think progress of any kind is on hold for a bit…after that there’s a good run of nice courses where we can mix and match our approach and see what people prefer.

About those next 2 weeks: can people give me some idea of their probable availability/interest? I won’t hold you to it. And I’ll enter team(s) for both. But I’m anticipating 1 team might be more likely than 2 but also that time slot might make a difference for these 2.

I’m out for both unfortunately. Work/family commitments. Must admit, Bologna & the Alpe as a TTT sounds more like an FTP test than anything!

For us I think (not sure what the others thought) it worked quite well. I just called the next person up for their pull every 30 seconds. Everyone knew who they were going after so it gave you a 30 second warning for your own pull. The second time around Drew and Ant missed a couple of pulls but let me know on the comms so I just skipped them out.

Next week (xmas eve) I think could do the 8.15am time slot but no other times.

On New Years Eve I could do the 8.15am or the 10.20am time slot. The evening slots will be spent eating more food and drinking more beer!

I didn’t watch the video before the race, but definitely got stuck in that #2 spot a few times, pushing 320W+ and not making any progress towards the front…

I’ll give Xmas Eve and NYE a miss, but should be up for some TTT’s in 2021. I guess it depends how the Tues races go!!

This is the data from the first section through the flats. You can see the pulls better on the 30sec power graph but shows then quite clearly through the dessert section. Would definitely work well on the flatter courses.

So tired.

I think 1:09:50 for the STW survivors ?. I was on my limit from about half way, so thanks for pulling those last few K, and it sucks to fail for a technical.

Zwift seems to be getting worse with respect to not getting in the pen these days. As soon as the invite appears I get in now, rather than wait for the last few minutes which we used to be able to do.

As per technique, I think it worked well, although we were not fading to the back quickly in some cases and that made it awkward. I would prefer to keep the line order and the front rider drops off much harder, so second wheel is already in place, but its good to try different things.

Gutted to have missed it, would have been easier without the technical hiccups as more peeps in the rotation means a longer rest for everyone! Zwift has never frozen like that for me before (on iPad) – everything was fine until I switched to the bloody Chrimbo jumper!!! Great work by all those who rode!

About those next 2 weeks: can people give me some idea of their probable availability/interest?

I’m unavailable for both of those ttt’s. Late shift and an early shift. I also think I need to do some training before entering. 😭

@savoyad I can’t commit to the next few TTTs.

My main Thursday night activity is MTB night riding, so I’m only be available when that’s cancelled for some reason, like yesterday. But I did “enjoy” the pain in a strictly type two way and I think it’s great training. But my participation will only ever be ad hoc, if there is still a place available at the last minute.

@robbo1234biking – where did you get that nice looking graph of your data?

@j-r I use intervals.icu. It pulls the data from strava. It is free to use as well and really good.

I thought the rotation system worked well too. Disappointed not to have been able to last the course but really couldn’t carry on without significantly dropping the pace until the finish. I normally warm down but just had to stop. On a flat course I may have been ok but taking turns on the front and pushing higher power numbers on the lumpy bits just put me into too much of a deficit I think. It’s also possible I was pushing myself too much on my turns at the front as I was focusing on maintaining speed which was about 41 km/hr rather than on a more sustainable output for me.

I didn’t really think the turns worked so well, at least from my point of view. @robbo1234biking called it flawlessly for us, I’m just not sure it is the best approach with quite a mixed team.

I found 30s too short, it was too easy to pop off the front at the start of a pull, have to ease off and then only end up usefully on the front for the last 10 seconds before the next persons pull.

I think my first TTT was that course when I was one of the slowest in the fast group. Back then I used the flat to go as easy as possible in the draft. Then barely hang on through the rollers at max effort before another recovery on the flat. With the rotations I think we end up exhausting the smaller and slower riders on the flat before we even get to the hills. And if there is a bit of a split caused by the dropping back the higher wattage riders cant get everyone settled in behind them before their pull is over.

I would definitely go along with @yanboss on that. I was really referring to the calling of the turns rather than the allocation/duration/ intensity.

Yes, ditto, the mechanism of calling rather than the general melee. On the flat I found I would go off the front too hard and then slow to allow catch up, but then too late accelerate again, and then turn would be over, and could have gone for longer, but when on the hills I was all over the place due to being too heavy.

Because comms is so flaky would it work just to be called to the front, until you feel you;ve done enough then drop hard to the back, and its clear 2nd wheel is up. If you are the next rider you have to make sure you are in position at 2nd wheel ? That way you can do as long as you like.

Sound like everyone could have pulled longer. I did think about increasing the length of pulls the second time through the dessert but I was aware yanboss and munkeymadness couldn’t always easily speak to say if that is ok so didn’t want to change it. Prob need to try it again then with longer pulls on the front on a flat course. Nothing stopping us doing a meet up to try some different things out though and work out the best way to do stuff!

I was one of the victims to technology. A few trainer drop outs which reconnected and then a terminal one. It’s the iPad to Apple TV which seems flakey so I just lose power. I would agree that longer turns would be better certainly for the stronger riders. And maybe rather than try for a line you relax into a blob behind the lead 2. But all good fun. Xmas eve and New Year’s Eve unlikely

@munkeymadness just curious as to why you are not directly connected to the Apple TV?

(I can’t do this Thursday or next – have a great ride, those that do)

@drew the Apple TV only takes 2 blue tooth connections. I need 3 (trainer, hr and cadence). Used to be possible to connect trainer to Apple TV and then hr a cadence via companion app. For some reason now have to be all through companion app.

@munkeymadness Ah, of course. That makes sense. My trainer has cadence on the same connection which simplifies things but does sacrifice accuracy on occasion.

Those who do want to ride Bologna on Christmas Eve: usual time 7.40pm? Or another slot (morning / earlier in the evening)?

8.15am is the only time zone I could make on Xmas eve. Although I am not going to help a team get a fast time up that circuit!

Won’t be taking part in this one I don’t think.

I’d be up for a time before lunch – but not any later

Seeing as I can’t go anywhere now, I’ll be up for Xmas eve if it’s early enough

Yeah early one for me as well.
Won’t be able to make the usual time.

Could get on this on an am slot – says 32k on the wtrl page so that’s twice up and down? A hard parcours.

I’ve lost track of what events are going on, but I can probably do either eve or morning on the 24th, I’ll check with @mbs.

I’ve brought a Neo trainer back from the dead (£50 on FB) and now have two bikes set up, so will see if I can convince little-haloric to join in (27, C cat).

I’ve dithered over 8.15 and 10.30 for too long, and @drp has gazumped me now with (an otherwise perfectly judged) meetup invitation.

The TTT is still there if people want. Let’s decide like this:

– Sign up to whichever times you are available for, and we’ll ride whichever gets more people. If you can ride either, enter both for now. If you can ride only one, just choose that.

8.15 is cat A here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1389037
10.20 is cat A here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1389064

Two laps (“laps”) of Bologna. Team entries are in for both slots, so if we do get a team together the admin is already in place.

If I did any, it’d be 10.20, would like to but can’t make any guarantees at this stage!!

At the moment it’s..

8.15 1 person
10.20 3 people

So 8.15 doesn’t look popular but we might yet get a team together at 10.20.

Sign up to category A here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1389064