Zwift Team Time Trial, Thursday

Here’s the strategy for today. We can debrief after. This course is very, very well suited to doing this because of the way it’s neatly segmented into different sections which alternate and last long enough for everyone to be properly involved.

The course alternates like this:

Desert 1: start – 10km : ride in organised rotation (see below)
Jungle 1: 10km – 20km: blob (our normal cooperative chaos) (10km so starting on the first rise) – focus on getting everyone through the rollers.
Desert 2: 20km – 30km: rotation
Jungle 2: 30km- 40km: blob
Desert 3: 40km – finish: rotate.

From the start, get together neatly settled and then at 30 seconds or 1 minute (so the clock is round numbers for future changes; road captains decide exactly which) begin your rotations. Use the rider orders posted above. Captains: your job is to call the changes on 0s/30s and then call to warn who is up next. So you need a list in order, comms, and a way of remembering if anyone withdraws from the rotation.

Everyone take 30 seconds on the front then recover until your next pull. No set watts or speed target. Go hard for you (somewhere in the range less than your 1 minute power but more than your 5 minute power!).

It’s absolutely OK to refuse a turn when called if you are tired (skip to next person) or pull out of the rotation and stop pulling entirely but stay in the group to provide draft/cover. Either way, speak up when called!

2nd wheel is really important – it’s hard work for someone, but also you all need to recover. And it’s not ideal to move to the front from there. So @phil56, @paino, @dangeourbrain (for MoreSTW) and @munkeymadness, @yanboss and @trolo1234 (for STW) can you step in and and cover 2nd wheel as much as you can in your respective teams. I think – for now – this is probably wiser than trying longer pulls for some if you are feeling stronger.

Don’t forget: the aim is still to stay together to the finish. Even with more structure, this will still be harder today through the forest than the desert.

Finally, there is a technique in this video called “sink and sprint”.
see here https://youtu.be/LBGcfLx1NLs?t=142

The aim of sinking is to not present a sticky draft to your teammates as you drop back after your turn. Think about it, but don’t go overboard. Everyone riding today is “zwifty” enough to do a “sneaky surge” rather than a “sprint” but slightly earlier than the video says sprint though. It’ll get you back on. And it’s much lower risk.

Enjoy…

Have you got room for another rider? Understand if its a bit late…

Looks good. Will be good to try something different!

Only thing I can think of is that on the flat you have suggested the Bs cover 2nd wheel – I cant remember what power they out put but I know trolo is around 250w FTP whereas I am 280W. How much does weight matter on the flat i.e. if we have light weight B’s are we going to tire them out if they are trying to cover 2nd wheel when the Cs might have a higher power output?

Cheers Adam. Good video. It’s a difficult one trying to balance the whole sink and sprint thing with the leading from the back approach. It’s much easier hitting the front from the back of the pack with the extra draft effect, rather than second wheel pushing through…. So are we assuming that whoever sits on the front pulls the anchors after 30/60sec to effectively say second wheel now has the lead?
It’s going to be hectic but I’m looking forward to it!

Yes @paino. Pull the anchors and if 2nd wheel isn’t the person up next, trust that someone will be in the process of jumping past them . Once the call to change is made, your responsibility is to get back in the group and recover for next time (and/or in your case recover ready for some 2nd wheel duty). Everyone can hit the front from their preferred approach (some might want to be ready in 2nd even if others think that’s extra effort, some will like to wind it up from the very back, others creep up from the middle etc).

So are we assuming that whoever sits on the front pulls the anchors after 30/60sec to effectively say second wheel now has the lead?

For my tuppence worth I’d suggest we surge off the back then try falling back a place at a time it’s much much easier and far lower risk of splintering the group.

@benman yes there is one place which you are welcome to grab.
Join team MoreSTW so
– enter pen A here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1356634
– tag yourself as a team member in zwiftpower by appending (MoreSTW) to your Rider Name. Instructions above.
– check through tonight’s strategy post above.

@phil56 If this works out, I’d add @benman to your rotations between @dangeourbrain and @w00dster. Your call though.

For my tuppence worth I’d suggest we surge off the back then try falling back a place at a time it’s much much easier and far lower risk of splintering the group.

I would normally agree, but I’m ready to try it the other way today, it makes it very clear that after the front you go to the back. Without this there is a kind of random churn of the front few riders. Can’t wait to see us whipped into shape.

I didn’t see the break point on the road announced for mince pies, but can I suggest xmas jumpers for team kit tonight ?

Click the default Zwift kit (grey with orange Z) – https://zwiftinsider.com/xmas/

Okay, think I’ve done everything to enter. Just need to set discord up now

but can I suggest xmas jumpers for team kit tonight ?

unless EVERYONE has the same idea, which will get really confusing! Guess we’ll know, once in the pen!

but can I suggest xmas jumpers for team kit tonight ?

Maybe we should all have reindeer names for the week. If only for the smirk value as Phil urges us onto the front “now dasher, now prancer, on doner now blitzen”

Fresh discord invite (@benman, @j-r) https://discord.gg/F92vG5Uj

Maybe we should all have reindeer names for the week. If only for the smirk value as Phil urges us on “now dasher, now prancer, on doner now blitzen”

There are 8 reindeers as well so that works!

All good to go now 🙂

Ok just trying to get my head around the strategy for tonight. I’m not the brightest and I need to be really clear in my head what the steps are….sorry!!
Are we going to attempt to be in single file, every 30 seconds or so we drop back to the rear of the line, recover until it’s our turn to pull again? Are all 8 riders going to put in a pull for the same amount of time? Even if the watts is reduced for the lighter riders, do we have a rough target of FTP we should aim for (120% ftp?).
Are we going to have a line order, so we know who we follow and who follows us? Sorry for the questions, just how my brain works I’m afraid!

@w00dster. their might be changes but I intended:
– single file ish. defined front and usually clear second rider. maybe even a third usually. But further back blobbing is fine and often more likely.
– Do your 30 seconds on the front, recover while everyone else does their 30 seconds, then your 30 seconds comes round again
– precise targets seems too much to me (for a variety of reasons). that’s why I suggested a broad benchmark of just pulling hard, somewhere between your 1 minute and 5 minute power! keep an eye no gap opens behind you when you are on the front.
-I suggested the order be the order riders were in in my original post (above). road captains can confirm in the pen, and next up every 30seconds during the ride. There will be too much churn for it to be actually ridden in that order most of the time though. the order is really for front duties.

Thanks for the info. The reason I mentioned the order being confirmed is that I’ll probably write it down. If I don’t I’ll get a tad confused, especially when I’m blowing out of my backside!

I’m going to have to drop out this evening 🙁 .
I have to get up at 0300 tomorrow morning.
I like the idea that has been proposed above for the organised structure of the ttt. Hopefully i will be able to contribute in future races.

I’m up for the Reindeer names, although it’s going to confuse the hell out of Phil!
On the basis of 8 single file riders, any pushing up from the back is going to take longer than if we were blobbed, so, logically second wheel becomes first and then recover at back OR unless El Capitaino tells us where to sit. That way there’s a defined order, which is going to go to shit on the climb. Which reminds me @Benman don’t go balls out on the climb (as I know you can)! It’s a good idea for the stronger climbers to be the sweeper to make sure nobody falls off the back, or at least help if someone does.

No worries @retrorick. Get some sleep!

Does it group the teams in green or anything on the list, or do we just have to look out for one another? Do we all wear the same kit to help with this?

@paino – don’t worry I’ll be using the climbs to recover from the flats :p It’s the flat where I’m most likely to get dropped.

@benman you’ll be the only team setting off at your defined start time.

So join the event as usual by 19:40. But when it says GO! you must NOT GO! You need to stay at zero watts for 4 minutes 30 at which point Phil will countdown. THEN you can go. Only STW go at that moment. Other teams have their own start delay (30 sec intervals).

The first 30-60 seconds will be spent assembling into a group on the road. Anyone leaving at that moment is 99% sure to be your teammate. But you can see their names (which are not necessarily team tagged but usually they make some sense) in the panel as usual on the right.

We usually dress as bumblebees but I think tonight it’s christmas sweaters (choose) the grey zwift jersey. You’ll be forced onto the buffalo bike but they’ve changed its characteristics so it rides well on this occasion.

On the climb, all organisation goes out the window. Just ride at the w/kg which you can all sustain together. Let the lower w/kg riders determine the pace. The rollers are hard to ride as a unit. Really hard. That means kms 10-20 and 30-40 really. Regroup into organised riding at km20 and km40 (or the nearest round number timing to that point).

The moments to transition are just after saddle springs, where the road bends right and begins to drag upwards and again after winding round the water following the rolling descent. The kms are very convenient round numbers for those points, which works well.

All clear. Good job you told me about the 0 watts bit!

Would it be easier to herd cats @savoyad 😂

You lot are at least less likely to run under my spinning pedals mid race.

I thought I had answered your earlier comment @robbo1234biking – it might indeed be a bit harsh to expect too much 2nd wheel on the flat from @trolo1234. Could team STW agree an approach to second wheel in the pen (even if it’s “let’s see how plan A goes an then improvise if necessary…”)?

Hi there. I think I understand the aim. Can I ask for someone else to volunteer as road captain for STW. I’ve only done 2 TTs so far and feel rather unqualified. Further more my discord ability is v low. I can hear but it’s very difficult for me to speak due to how I need to have my phone placed near bike once we are riding and it’s too noisy to leave my microphone on. Any volunteers?

I can do it but can’t guarantee I won’t be blowing out of my arse and forget who is next!

Thanks Robbo. Appreciated greatly. I must also ensure I don’t prematurely exit the pen like my schoolboy error last week.

I’m coming off the back of two big races and a hilly night MTB ride, which is a lot for me, so if I start to do a Captain Oates off the back, don’t come looking for me, its for the best.

Otherwise, I’m gonna be in the sleigh at the back with Santa if I get any say in it.

What time do we need to join?

@J-R join now, you can warm up till clock says 00:30. Get on MoreSTW voice though

Sorry I didn’t make the pens folks.

Well that was a bit of a nightmare technically tonight. Lost @trolo1234 before we even started as he couldn’t join the pen. @zilog6128 had a crash waiting in the pen. So 5 of us set of. I think the first 10k went really well taking it in turns to take pulls. When we hit the forest I think we went to hot and burned out @drew. We managed to regroup but I think we had done the damage. When we got back on the flats drew rested a couple of turns and then out in a couple of big pulls before pulling the plug. Thanks for doing that :-). We then lost @munkeymadness due to a drop out I think just before the forest. @haloric, @yanboss and I then pushed through the forest as best we could and then tried to regoranise before the line but I think we just did what we could to get over the line.

We passed 3 teams I think without getting stuck and staying in formation so we didn’t all have to push. That bit seemed to work really well so I assume we had a really good speed differential.

Despite all the issues I enjoyed that. The first 10k taking it in turns went really well. The second time round when we were more fatigued there were a few more sticky drafts but overall I think it worked well and def something to pursue once we get better at it. I think 45 second pulls might be better perhaps but that may be because we only had 5 dropping down to 3! Well done all – I have really enjoyed the TTT and looking forward to getting back to it in the New Year!

you missed something remarkable Brian – I think Phil’s microphone went down and nobody told us off ! 🤣

I think Phil’s microphone went down and nobody told us off ! 🤣

Thought it was just that we were doing so well!

Well I had no idea who I was supposed to be following, so just went to front when it suited, sorry if I cocked it up! That was difficult, so kudos to @benman and @J-R for their performance-we held it together nicely and some lovely clean passes.
The problem with having 6/7 other guys wearing the same is I lose who I’m supposed to be following. Maybe everyone wearing a different kit may help!

Sorry I missed that. I was looking forward to it this evening, really felt like I needed the run out. Zwift crashed out 3 times before I got into the pens, the one time it stayed up long enough to get there it didn’t give me the invite. Even whilst it was up I couldn’t seem to get it to play nicely with my turbo.
Not a successful evening 🙁

I think Phil’s microphone went down and nobody told us off !

I’ve got images of a teacherless classroom in my head. I’m surprised some of you didn’t go the wrong way.

Well done to the STW finishers, it must have been hard ending up as a threesome. Great debut as road captain Rob, you did a great job there in difficult circumstances. Sorry to pull the plug when I did but I just couldn’t see me surviving the forest without slowing to a crawl. I’m not sure why I found it so hard but I think I’m not quite at the level where I can put a regular pull on the front in at this pace and have enough time to recover at the back.

I got a message at the end saying my FTP had gone up from “poor” to “mediocre”
I’ve never seen my FTP anywhere on zwift other than the overoptimistic one I typed in myself when I was fit a few years ago
Does it matter?
How do I see/use it? (sure as hell can’t remember what it said, while I was still trying not to fall off the bike)