Yes, yes, terrible floods and so on, but…

Elfinsafety

Why do you presume that I don't give a toss, I was simply implying that a substantial sum could be raised by the amount of of people of Pakistani origin or immigrants alone! Don't jump to conclusions.

I do think it's an interesting point that all the Muslim brothers of the Arabian peninsula region always stay very quiet in the face of disasters to part of their precious "Umma" whilst the evil West is the one to lend a hand.

Although there was a feature just this week on a U.K. "Islamic" charity begging for help from us, I don't remember them mobilising to assist during the Haiti earthquake disaster…

I do think we are a bit over generous and far too quick to empty our pockets in foreign aid. Yes it is v tragic but as said previous where are their ridiculously rich islamic brothers???? I am afraid if the shoe was on the other foot there wouldnt be a massive aid rush to help us.
Albeit on a lot lesser scale what about the poor folk who are still destitute from the cumbrian floods???? There wasnt a rush from the government to assist them??? Charity begins at home first i am afraid.

I believe that Pakistan's "Muslim Brothers" are providing aid, as are many other countries of the world. Maybe it is the way our press report on such issues as to why we don't hear about what other countries are doing to help.

“The Saudi Royal Air Force will establish an air bridge to Islamabad to transport the relief supplies,” the statement said. The Saudi Finance Ministry has already arranged large amounts of foodstuffs, medicine, blankets and tents for the flood victims.

“We are coordinating with UN organizations to distribute humanitarian and emergency relief supplies worth $100 million, which the Kingdom had earlier allocated to support victims of natural calamities in Pakistan,” the statement said.

Just a quick search and hey presto…..

After taking a beating in the media for failing to come up with aid for earthquake-stricken Haiti, oil-rich Saudi Arabia has now agreed to pitch in $50 million to help the poor Caribbean Sea nation, news agencies are reporting.

The aid will be directed through the United Nations.

"The kingdom, by instruction of King Abdullah, is donating $50 million … to assist the Haitian people," foreign ministry spokesman Osama Nugali told Agence France-Presse today.

— Los Angeles Times

It does appear that Saudi Arabia took a bit of time to open their wallets though!

Although there was a feature just this week on a U.K. "Islamic" charity begging for help from us, I don't remember them mobilising to assist during the Haiti earthquake disaster…

MAybenot the same charity, but a Muslim one nonetheless:

News -> Muslim Charity Launches Emergency Appeal for Haiti Earthquake Victims
Muslim Charity Launches Emergency Appeal for Haiti Earthquake Victims

Dated: January 13th 2010
Muslim Charity has launched an Emergency Appeal for victims of the tragic Earthquake that struck the Haiti Region late last night.

See, we don't get to hear about what happens outside of the scope of Western Media interests, so we often don't know what the real situation is. It's easy to sit and slag someone off when you can't see the full picture.

More here:

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1262372522761&pagename=Zone-English-News/NWELayout

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/5000389.Muslim_charity_s_dinner_to_help_Haiti_quake_victims/

http://www.muslimcharitiesforum.org.uk/media/news.html#

http://www.tsmmedia.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=619:us-muslim-charity-to-fly-1-million-in-relief-supplies-to-haiti&catid=73:national&Itemid=96

The internet is a wonderful thing; you can find out all sorts of information about stuff.

Or you can of course choose to ignore it, and wallow in ignorance, if that serves you better.

Burls

Also colonization wasn't only a one way thing, yes it was done by us for purely selfish reasons but where would those countries be now without the infrastrucure we put in place during colonization?

FFS what next thank Hitler for the Jewish Holocaust as it helped get support for a Jewsih state/Israel? As you noted we did not do it to help them we did it to help ourselves, literally, to their resources [including people]. The fact it may of benefited them is entirely accidental as it is with the holocaust.

I do think it's an interesting point that all the Muslim brothers of the Arabian peninsula region always stay very quiet in the face of disasters to part of their precious "Umma" whilst the evil West is the one to lend a hand.

Have you thought about listening to al jazera[/url] or going to a mosque or a Muslim country to see what they are doing to help? Perhaps you could read a bit more on the subject see links above or just type in to Google before giving us your inaccurate views? Just a thought? I think most if us have got it that you hate/dislike all religions but must you suspend all your critical faculties every time there is an event which you perceive as having a religious link? For example re Haiti it is hardly surprising that a Muslim is more likely to give to a Muslim now is it? or a MTB more likely to donate to say the air ambulance than say the RNLI. Does this get you equally hot under the collar ? You also seem to be accusing them of doing nothing to help Muslims and of only helping Muslims which is it? See point above above your hatred of religion clouding your reasoning.
Tragedy for sure, we may be poor in our terms[ but not in world terms and certainly not in comparison to the people in Pakistan.

And just how much have you donated Junkyard?

Where's allah when you need him eh…?

Have you thought about listening to al jazera or going to a mosque or a Muslim country to see what they are doing to help? Perhaps you could read a bit more on the subject see links above or just type in to Google before giving us

Fair enough.

The internet is a wonderful thing; you can find out all sorts of information about stuff.

Good point.

Right, so now we've established that Muslims are not all stingy bastards who only help themselves, I predict the focus of this thread will now shift to another area, perhaps Pakistan's fundamental extremists, or maybe Pakistani people in Britain receiving 'preferential treatment' or some other such toss. And there will be the usual few souls who bother to think a bit more, who'll come along and negate the bigoted ignorant arguments, and things will dwindle down to a few inane mutterings by the Hard of Thinking. As is usually the case in such matters.

We could of course save ourselves the bother, and just accept that the World is not perfect.

Meanwhile, the original question suggests the Pakistani government is less than ideal, and doesn't seem to have it's peoples' best interests at heart. The militaristic posturing isn't addressing the real problems that people face, nor is it really strengthening Pakistan's position on the World stage. I think questions about 'where does the aid go' are valid. Why Pakistan feels the need to arm itself is an issue which should be spoken about, and possible solutions discussed.

Moaning about 'why should I help someone else' isn't really very helpful here. People are dying.

Backhander the relevance of asking about my charitable donations is what in respect of the points I made?
To broadly answer your question. I have Direct Debits to a small number of charities I support. Yes I donate on occasions like this
I dont eat meat, rarely drive and dont watch much TV.GSOH solvent and own home. Are we compatible? Shall we go on a date 😉

Bra size please? 😀

The last time there was a disaster in Pakistan, we helped out quite a bit;
http://www.prideofbritain.com/contentpages/winners/2006/59-commando.aspx
Funnily enough, that was my old squadron and troop (C tp 59). Having spoken to the blokes they really enjoyed the trip and were proud to have helped out. 17 health centres and 30 school buildings in 10 weeks, not bad going eh?

not bad going eh?

Effing fantastic mate. If only more of our armed forces were utilised in this way.

Whether its arguing about them having Nuclear weapons, "brother" countries not helping or immigrants to this country 🙄 it certainly shows up the lack of humanity those people on this thread have.

Stop using politics, the pakistani Government, religion, nationality and our national debt(we are still an insanely wealthy country)as excuses and tell us what you really think…

Or I could just say what a mean, selfish, bunch of a-holes that this country is now producing.

Or I could just say what a mean, selfish, bunch of a-holes that this country is now producing.

**** off, what have you ever done to change anyones life? Couple of quid in a pot? Why don't you get off your arse and go do something about it?

tell us what you really think…

What's that supposed to mean?

Backhander, I don't think that comment was aimed specifically at you. And you have no idea what El-Bent has done or not done for others, as they've not chosen to discuss it.

I agree that many people are becoming more and more selfish. There might not be a lot you as one individual can do, but every tiny bit makes a difference. Bunging a quid in a pot is better than sitting around moaning about stuff. Maybe a quid in a pot is all some people can manage. At least they're considering others.

As for 'tell us what you really think'; I think folk can work it out for themselves, the ignorance, bigotry and xenophobia displayed by some. Certainly plenty of unfounded opinion not backed up with any facts. Quite revealing actually.

Backhander, I don't think that comment was aimed specifically at you. And you have no idea what El-Bent has done or not done for others, as they've not chosen to discuss it.

Fair enough.
There are far too many on here ready to scream "racist" if others views don't align with their own however I agree that religion and nationality shouldn't be a factor. Giving what we don't have is though, IMO.

Giving what we don't have is though, IMO.

But we've already established that claiming we have 'no money' is absurd. If you were in the army did you not travel to some places that made you understand what 'no money' actually means?

But we've already established that claiming we have 'no money' is absurd

Where? How?

If you were in the army did you not travel to some places that made you understand what 'no money' actually means?

Yes but it's not relevant. We're not talking about individual wealth here, we're talking about our govts ability to provide aid. The forces are stretched and facing large budget cuts and while afg is still going on they do not have the resources for things like disaster relief (shamefully), the economy is in pieces and papers like the guardian are still telling us that a double dip recession is around the corner. Wealthy individuals should make a contribution as junkyard does IMO.
A few years ago, I'd have been happy to see UK PLC throwing money at pakistan for something like this.

ernie_lynch – you portray yourself on many many many threads as this politically correct do-gooder of saint like proportions.

Would you be so kind as to provide some proof of your generosity towards others by showing us some documented proof of your generous nature towards the poor people of Pakistan … how much have you donated? somebody with such strong moral feelings as yourself, I would expect it to be atleast a grand … that is unless your a hypocrite who only argues for your own attention seeking self??

Proof my friend … anything less proves my point and not yours!

Or I could just say what a mean, selfish, bunch of a-holes that this country is now producing

We all pay into the foreign aid budget so I don't entirely buy into that statement

The UK gov should target our aid program better, why on earth are we giving aid to the likes of Hungary & the Czech Republic? & I'm totally lost as to why we give to Singapore – their GDP is up thee with the big boys & well above ours but for some reason or other we gave them millions in the last few years in development aid
Money better held back for disasters like this IMO

Proof my friend … anything less proves my point and not yours!

And what was your point again?

Don't see why Ernie has to prove anything to you. Maybe he's only given a quid, because that's all he could afford. Maybe it's thousands of pounds. It's got absolutely naff all to do with anyone else. People aren't obliged to have to prove how charitable they are. Same as they're not obliged to be charitable at all, if they so chose.

ernie_lynch – you portray yourself on many many many threads as this politically correct do-gooder of saint like proportions.

Where has he done that?

PROOF PLEASE.

We all pay into the foreign aid budget so I don't entirely buy into that statement

Given the choice, would the UK public want to pay into it? If we want to be selective about who we give aid to, do people understand the economic consequences of doing so? I think it would be akin to cutting ones nose off to spite their face.

The foreign aid budget is used for maintaining UK interests amongst other things.

In Pakistan, there are 1600 dead so far, over 70,000 have lost homes, an estimated 2 million people displaced, arable land destroyed…I think the UK would struggle to cope with that without asking for assistance, we are a nuclear power after all.

Quite.

To be fair to the Pakistani government & army, they did try and move a lot of people from the areas at risk but many refused to leave their livestock and homes, they are now faced with trying to repair the infrastructure so aid can get in. Time to call in the Royal Engineers!

Blacklug – Member

ernie_lynch – you portray yourself on many many many threads as this politically correct do-gooder of saint like proportions.

Would you be so kind as to provide some proof of your generosity towards others by showing us some documented proof of your generous nature towards the poor people of Pakistan … how much have you donated? somebody with such strong moral feelings as yourself, I would expect it to be atleast a grand … that is unless your a hypocrite who only argues for your own attention seeking self??

Proof my friend … anything less proves my point and not yours!

I am hardly likely to portray myself as "politically correct", as it is something which I dismiss as liberal middle-class irrelevant nonsense.

And as for your reference to "do-gooder" I can only assume that you see as some sort of insult, preferring presumably, those who "do evil".

I don't know whether I should be classed as a do-gooder or as evil-doer…….I'll let you decided how you wish to label people.

But I do know that unlike you who finds it "hard to feel compassion", I find it remarkably easy to feel compassion for a tragic event which has left 1600 people dead and 15 million homeless.

Nothing extraordinary about that of course, as compassion and concern for others is a very common human trait. And indeed I feel rather sorry for you too, as you apparently lack this basic human characteristic….it's all rather sad the thought of someone leading a less than full life and being restricted only to selfish animal-like emotions 😐

On the question of much I donate to disaster appeals, that is my business. If you choose to believe that I am a hypocrite who donates nothing, and in fact probably steals from charity boxes, then that is your business.

I am perfectly happy with you thinking whatever you want to think. I don't even have the slightest idea who you are.

….blah-blah-blah…..

As said. If your not a hypocrite? Show us proof….

(no need for a long-winded reply/excuse…just proof please)

As said. If your not a hypocrite? Show us proof….

😕 If I'm not a hypocrite?

But I am not saying that I'm not a hypocrite…….you decide.

if 1600 middle or upper class people had drowned in a flood or been made homeless would you still feel the same level of compassion ernie? I really don't believe you would

"I really don't believe you would"

Well maybe you're right. Maybe as Blacklug suggests, I'm just a hypocrite who feels no compassion.

(no need for a long-winded reply/excuse…just proof please)

I'm still waiting for you to provide proof that Ernie portrays himself as a do-gooder saint.

I'm going to bed now though.

Lol! get a life Blacklug, sheesh!

I bought someone who forgot their dinner money a packet of crisps at lunchtime. Unfortunately, I can't prove it. and yes, I am a Saint. I can't prove that either, in fact I'm just typing bollocks. What's on telly….

I'm just a hypocrite who feels no compassion

don't be so hard on yourself

inconsistent, over emotional screaming lefty drama queen would be a bit more accurate 😉

but i like you 😀

Hey Elfinsafety, maybe I'm not even left-wing. Maybe I'm just a hypocrite who has voted Tory all his life.

Who's to know ? ….. after all, you can't trust anything I[/b] say……specially if I'm hypocrite 😐

yes, I am a Saint.

I saw an image of your face in the mould on a lemon what I forgot was in my fridge, so it must be true!

Some of us have got to live as well, you know. Who do you think pays for all this rubbish? They'll never make their money back, you know. I told him. I said to him, "Bernie", I said, "They'll never make their money back."

I'm too frightened and confused now so I am definitely going to bed.

Also colonization wasn't only a one way thing, yes it was done by us for purely selfish reasons but where would those countries be now without the infrastrucure we put in place during colonization?

FFS what next thank Hitler for the Jewish Holocaust as it helped get support for a Jewsih state/Israel? As you noted we did not do it to help them we did it to help ourselves, literally, to their resources [including people]. The fact it may of benefited them is entirely accidental as it is with the holocaust.

Not true. There was a belief at the time (which turned out to be true in many instances) that colonising certain countries/peoples was for their own benefit, as well as the Empire. Whether or not you think the Empire was a good or bad thing, it did include a lot of folk convinced what they were doing was right. And also a fair few just in it for themselves it has to be said.