Winters coming;all inclusive rugby thread.

ijs445ra makes a very valid point. We are all busy thinking about the best players but what the Lions need is the best team. The Aussies are essentially intelligent (rugby wise!) from 1-15, strong at the breakdown and devastating with quick ball due to the speed in the backs. Does this sound roughly right? For me you need, fast, physical guys with excellent handling/ vision/ reading of the game. A good few 1/2p’s would do the Lions fine 😀

In other Lions picks… it would be a real shame for Hook to not be included and waste all that natural talent. Again, he we probably be the victim of his versatility but could be vital providing injury cover throughout the tour.

I’d also love to see some of the English non-international flyers included and some of the guys playing in France currently snubbed by their national side. Whenever I’ve watched Lee B he seems to be playing well but admittedly I haven’t watched too much French rugby this season…

Mongo would fit in just fine in Australia; he has been training for it, was it not a Walkabout bar he was assaulted in? In fact did they ever get anybody for that?

I think Mongo was set for the mid week nasties side in the earlier posts in this thread 😀

Mongo for the Lions

😆

Before you get too happy Surfer, during the game yesterday they mentioned that Sale had 19 players out of contract, a “large number” of whom had told Diamond they didn’t want to play for Sale….I am starting to think he is the problem there. But Mongo was ace yesterday.

Yes Diamond does seem to be the issue. I think 16 are out of contract but there are a number of top players who have re-signed and the fact that they have a sniff of Heineken rugby next year and it looks more likely that they will avoid the drop then maybe that will be enough to convince more.
Some of the performances last week against Leicester were dire and a few players need to bugger off in Dimes’s opinion!

I’d love Mongo for the Lions! One of my favourite players. The sad thing is, when playing well he’s as good as any of the 8’s we’ve seen this 6N’s.

Bring back Strettle for the Wales game I say. This talk of putting Tuilagi on the wing is crazy.

Gray broken, Kellock to start I hope. If he doesn’t I suspect there will be a chapter in his autobiography entitled “Me and Johnston’s daughter.”

This is a good point, Ashton was not getting any ball really.

Neither was Tuilagi. When the ball came out, it either got carried into contact by the forwards or Barrit or hoofed into the sky by Flood or youngs. Manu got passed the ball twice (I think?) during the entire game.
The earlier reference to trundlemuppets was entirely accurate. Dreadful gameplan by Lancaster.

its floods fault I tell you, he refused to offload, and infected everyone else.

North has done everything asked of him, he made a good break v scotland just before the try.

This all goes back to the england of old, glory boys not acting as a team. I truly think that each and every one of them thought that “as Italy are so crap, I won’t make this nice offload to the boys who have an overlap, NOOOO I’ll just break this tackle and run on to score and get showered in tea and medals” ..

I’m fully prepared to accept the arrogance tag today.

With the exception of, ironically, Ashton, he did try a few good offloads, but he otherwise ran away from tackles.

V pissed off with my team this morning. I hope some arses get kicked.

Pretty much how I saw it too toys19.
Thing is though – who really expect ITALY to play that well? Their ball retention in the 2nd half was amazing. How many phases did they go through without actually making a mistake?! We just couldn’t get the ball. (And then when we did we were crap, but that’s another matter 🙂 )

Still think we have enough wingers (eg. Wade) for Mike Brown to play in his proper position at full back. He’s not a winger! And what with Ashton not being quick enough, our attack is limited to forwards and Tuilagi. Disappointing.

What I don’t get with Ashton, is that he certainly was that quick, he could gas pretty much any player 2 years ago. He came from rugby league in which you simply have to tackle, there is nowhere to hide and agin, 2 years ago would certainly go for the player every time.
Now, he’s always been a cheap shot WOM, but what on earth has happened to the rest of his play?
If we are going to have a player with questionable defence, lets get Varndell in there, he’ll at least run the sodding ball!

I keep saying it tinybits Varndell is teh awsumz!

tinybits – Member
Now, he’s always been a cheap shot WOM, but what on earth has happened to the rest of his play?

Self doubt and introversy inspired and perpetuated by the media after swan gate…..

Havent seen yesterdays game but Ashtons problems are not tackling per sae but being in the right place, he’s also good at over running ball carriers too

He was in the right place on more than one occasion yesterday and basically stood and watched others do the hard work! Threw an awful forward pass in a rare line break too.

He over runs because he is looking for teh miracle offload. When he gets it he scores but when he doesn’t he’s out of position.
Don’t like his style of play or his need to get involved in off the ball stuff.
He is easily outclassed by at least two present club players. Wade has to be the “surprise” choice for lions.

Joubert was terrible and needs to be talked to. He at least looked embarssed at the end.

Still think we have enough wingers (eg. Wade) for Mike Brown to play in his proper position at full back. He’s not a winger! And what with Ashton not being quick enough, our attack is limited to forwards and Tuilagi. Disappointing.

Might be disappointing but it’s still been enough to win every game so far. And that’s even without always playing too well, especially this weekend.
Used to think Tuilagi would be a great Lions wing, but IMO he’s been been the most dangerous back of the tournament from 13 so it would be mad to move him, England or Lions. He’s really come on as a centre over the last year and no-one’s gonna be keen to face him. First name on the teamsheet for me, and that’s coming from a Massive BOD fan. (although still reckon BOD could be the best bet at 12 to put him into space, if we can’t take Foffanna)
The other big plus for England (and IMO the Lions) has been Robshaw. Wasn’t keen at the start, but for me, a genuine contender for player of the tournament. Should be a great battle with Warbs, who on his day can still be a top 7. Two slightly different styles, but both in form. Although Robshaw doesn’t seem to do “out of form”, just consistency, tackling and carrying for 80 mins. Warburton’s a bit more hot and cold, and it can depend a bit more on how he’s reffed. Also a bit too fragile/ injury prone which isn’t good for playing back row.

IMO, reckon it would be great if Gatland’s been bluffing about this need for a fetcher at 7. Honestly think we should play to our strengths and batter them in the back row. Don’t think you can counter Pocock/ Hooper by going like-for-like anyway. It’s more of a team effort for me. Your 7 can only be first to the break in alternate phases at best, the rest he’ll be last one up from the last breakdown/pile-up. Pocock/ McCaw and the like are smart enough to always be effective by knowing when to take the opportunity for the turnover – it’s not every phase that they commit. Just play the most effective players we have and make Oz worry about us. One of them will be there quick enough anyway. For Me that’s Robshaw, SOB, and one of Faletau, Wood, or Beatie.
Also don’t think the long term injured should really be going. Leave Ferris, Lydiate, POC, Bowe, and others here for their own good. A Lions Tour is no injury recovery program. The game’s mental tough now and their chances of continuing decent careers shouldn’t be risked, IMO.

Cian Healy
Hibbard, Youngs, Best? R Strauss
Dan Cole
Launchbury
AW Jones
Sean O’Brien
Robshaw
Faletau
Phillips
Sexton
North
BOD
Tuilagi
Halfpee
Kearney

Bench:
Adam Jones
Hooker 2
Gethin
Hines / Hamilton
Wood/ Beatie/ Warburton
Care/ Murray
Farrell
Simon Zebo/ J Davies

Wade could be a great outside bet. But we’ve got loads of good wingers anyway so it’s not as needed.
We could do with a “outside bet” who can play 2. Those that have got a bit of form in the scrum and loose seem to be missing their lineout throws. For me, Strauss at Leinster might do the job. V quick around, and throws well.

The other outside bet for me could be Billy Vunipola. Looks like a Toby Faletau but with an extra 2 stone of momentum. Don’t know if he’s good enough yet though? IMO, England look like they need a no.8 like him, surprised he hasn’t had a run yet.

Re Joubert, gash as he was, apparently Hibbard has admitted in a paper to making “soft hits” to make it look like Scotland were going early. Now i am sure he is not the only one that does it but is perhaps the only one dumb enough to admit it.

My 2p worth on Ashton and I don’t like how he coems across as a person, but to be fair yesterday on a lot of occasions he got his space taken away by those inside him failing to straighten a line or throwing a miss pass instead of drawing a man and passing.

In seasons past Ashton scored alot of tries from his support play where he would be ahead of the play initially and so right on the shoulder of the player being tackled. Englands team and style of play, particularly the pace within the team and lack of offloading game, has changed quite a bit since then but he hasn’t. England need a different sort of winger to him at present.

Lancaster needs to make some bold/tough decisions if they want the Grand Slam.

DezB – Member

Pretty much how I saw it too toys19.
Thing is though – who really expect ITALY to play that well?

<Hand in the air>

I did many pages ago and was generally laughed at. I was desperately hoping that Italy would win so that I could cut and paste that page and say ‘I told you so!’.

Wade could be a great outside bet. But we’ve got loads of good wingers anyway so it’s not as needed.

not seen many where I’m sat.

Think you have misread what Hibbard said. He said wales were content to lose the hit as they had scotland on toast in the scrums so just waited to be hit. Scotland like Italy before them were **** if the lost the hit.

we’ve got loads of good wingers anyway so it’s not as needed.

not seen many where I’m sat.

Seriously?
You don’t rate North, Cuthbert, Halfpee? OK, Leave them behind.
Zebo, Maitland, Gilroy and Visser are good wingers too, but I wouldn’t expect you to see that “from where you’re sat.” 😉
Alright, they’re not J Savea – but who is?

Tomy Bowe’s a great winger, but I’d rather know he’s got fixed and fit properly for next season.

Sharples is a good winger I have seen in Gloucester, doesn’t seem to be able to nail a place in the england set up though.

IMO a winger is a flying machine who weighs a few ounces and is a defensive liability 😆 asking your winger to be good at tackling is just plain wrong. I haven’t played the game in a very long time 😀

pigface, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head for your “traditional” definition 🙂
But this fella’s pretty handy

He gets his shoulder so low to give the bump 😯 watched that this morning, Dagg gets flattened 😀

Wingers like you describe are generally better to watch IMO.

loum I agree re Bowe, even if he is hurried back I think they are talking about mid Apr at best so its unlikely that he would make it anyway.

Fez will not make the Lions unfortunately and POC makes his competitive return for Munster A tomorrow night. A decent showing in the HC and he could still make it.

😯
Goes into contact leading the ball, yet keeps hold of it (and they’re BIIG hits). Strong bloke.

Sharples is a good winger I have seen in Gloucester, doesn’t seem to be able to nail a place in the england set up though.

He just looked feeble in the game he played.

Going by the SuperRugby NZ can spare us a few wingers!

North, Cuthbert, Halfpee? OK, Leave them behind.
Zebo, Maitland, Gilroy and Visser

North is good, 1/2p is decent but a better fullback. Cuthbert is excellent going forward but poor defensively, Zebo and Gilroy are too small, Visser cant tackle and Maitland looks good but hasnt been able to show much. England prefer fullbacks and Ashton is bang out of form. Wade is unproven at that level as is Walker, Varndell cannot tackle and Sharples has never done much when given the chance, same with that other English wing whose name I forget and is always broken (not Sinbad the other one). Bowe is excellent but broken.

Sinbad must of done something bad to the son/daughter/mother/granny of someone at the RFU because I am amazed he isn’t even in the squad.

comedy video
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21735644

AA the big boys wont like that 😆

That video is excellent, as it illustrates everything about why I don’t rate Flood with ball in hand (other than as a kicker). He plays like this against everyone, so I dunno if it is arrogance, or just stupidity.
Anyway, if I remember correctly, we did actually win. So despite ourselves there are still reasons to be cheerful.

Probably a bit early to start gloating… 😆

The try butchered when Flood was held up was more Goodes fault for the lateral run imo.

Probably a bit early to start gloating

But Wales have such a slick passing game 😆

Good reactions from Hibbard there, cushioning the ball with his face.

comedy video
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21735644

Shame it doesn’t say, “Didn’t Italy defend well against the trundlemuppets?”

🙂

Dubious position of warburton in that clip, opens the gaps nicely by being a visual block. and making no effort to get back onside.