Will changing HGV and car limits help?

Scottish government is considering a consultation on increasing HGV limits to 50mph whilst reducing cars to 50 mph on single carriageway roads.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpqdgy8rq0eo

Of course some people are already saying it is crazy but I can see the logic.  Overtaking is the dangerpoint.   I see the usual suspects are already declaring it madness…

Logic maybe  but lets be fair any driver with an ounce of sense would over take in a safe manner, even at 50mph some car drivers would still risk it ..

No.

I am firmy in the ‘bad driving is dangerous, not just speed’.

There are many times when current limits can be safely exceeded, just as there are many times when the current limit is far too generous.

This is a race to the bottom.

I can’t think of any road where trucks drive as slow as 50mph (other than the average speed camera zoned A9) , let alone the 40mph they’re supposed to drive at.

Unusually the a76 in east Ayrshire is signed with 40mph signs for HGVa which are ignored but truck but google’s street car have obviously read them and google maps tells car drivers the limit is 40mph so you sometime get tourist driving pretty slowly along there

I’ve even chatted with newly qualified HGV drivers who werent even aware of the 40mph limit on A roads

In the past the road hauliers assoc threaten that their drivers will effectively ‘work to rule’ and drive at the 40mph NSL as a protest when there are fuel price rises. Which is a remarkable threat – threatening to abide by the law.

EDIT – actually driving in Northern Ireland hgv drivers seem very adherent to the 40mph NSL

I’d be happier if they just reduced the car speed limit to 40. There is no need to go faster except on motorways.

It’s effectively the case in E&W now

Most larger single-carriageway roads have a signed 50 limit rather than NSL for cars, etc, and lorries>7.5T are already legally at 50mph (60 on dual carriageways and mways) since April 2015

Data here of every conceivable type… https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/reported-road-accidents-vehicles-and-casualties-tables-for-great-britain#full-publication-update-history

Please help yourself 🙂

I can see a safety argument that having all traffic with the same speed limit should reduce the number of overtakes and that should reduce the number of collisions.

Having said that, of the 57,000km of roads in Scotland, I can think of many where 50mph is excessive for a HGV. That’s the problem with these blanket laws.

A limit of 50mph would also be better for emissions and fuel consumption, so that’s a benefit.

However, it will lead to increased journey times for many, particularly rural, travellers.

All of this presupposes that drivers actually abide by the speed limits anyway, and we know that many (most?) don’t.

Can you tell that I’m a bit conflicted on this?

Unusually the a76 in east Ayrshire is signed with 40mph signs for HGVa which are ignored but truck but google’s street car have obviously read them and google maps tells car drivers the limit is 40mph

The similar, 50mph for HGV, signs on the A9 were replaced by a different design for this reason. They no longer have a red circle around the 50 so that Google (and some automated car systems) don’t read it as a speed limit sign.

Ireland did something like this: most roads are 80km/h at most on the emptier parts, NSL signs are now very scarce, and only the highest standard single carriageway roads have a 100km/h limit. Driving standards are still woeful, but it definitely felt a lot safer driving and cycling there recently than it used to.

It’s going to be like the speed bumps everywhere, all the hgv  SUV’s 4×4 etc just straddle them whereas I have to crawl over them due to front springs broken in the past

I’ve had folk overtaking me at the bumps

Why do some areas have faux speed bumps just a bit of white marking on the road?

It’s been 50mph for HGVs on single carriageways for a while now in England and Wales, so can’t really see a problem with this being upped in Scotland.

In reality this means HGVs drive at 56mph  (just like they do through average speed cameras, as they won’t get clocked by cameras).

My experience of this in England is that I’m less likely to overtake a lorry as they’re doing close to the 60mph limit anyway.

It will be a good thing if it stops drivers going for last minute overtakes on the dual carriageway sections of the A9 where it narrows into single carriageway. I’m often alarmed with some of the kamikaze moves drivers go for to avoid bring stuck behind a 50mph lorry for a few miles. It should also eliminate frustration on other single carriageway A roads when car drivers feel they are being held up by a lorry. If the lorry is driving at your speed limit you don’t feel the need to overtake.

Scotland has lots of narrow A roads, when we were last in Scotland there was a Tanker off the road on it’s side and later in the week a bus had gone off the side off the road and nearly down a steep embankment with the sea at the bottom.

There were plenty of driving gods travelling  at inappropriate speeds for the roads and making interesting overtaking decisions.

Lowering speed limits and enforcing them might result in less accidents but it might also be better for the environment.

I am not convinced that driving slightly slower significantly increases journey times in real life.

Having the road shut to sort out accidents will adversely affect journey times

I think the people who can be bothered to stick to the posted limit are the kind of people who limit their overtaking to sensible safe places anyway.

The obvious question here is “help with what?”

You can certainly make an argument that the NSL for unclassified roads should be a lot lower, e.g. 30/40mph, and many French N roads are now 80 km/h IIRC.

Not just about safety, also reduces emissions and noise (which are important in urban areas) and fuel consumption.

HGV’s already do 50mph+ on the A75 (I live <5miles from) and when driving to dumfries from kirkcudbright at the speed limit of 60mph they are regularly parked right up my arse so close that I cannot read their numberplate in my rear view mirror. The only HGV’s that stick to speed limits are supermarket HGV’s.

As to reducing the speed limit to 50mph on such a road it’d make no difference as dicks gonna be dicks no matter what and I’ve had more close calls with dickhead drivers overtaking than any other road user.

Never thought id ever say it but data loggers should be used in all cars.

I don’t think any HGV drivers actually drive at 40mph on Scottish A-roads. Try doing that speed and see how many HGVs get stuck behind you!

I think the reduction to a 50 mph limit would be effective.

I also wonder about the way cars are marketed to us , you tend to see a luxury car going fast on an empty road a lot of the time.  Not a car inching forward on busy city street.

I also tend to travel outside of peak times if I am going any distance. Most of my longer journeys involve the A82 if it’s in the tourist season  I set off at teatime and save myself forty minutes to an hour.

I’d be happier if they just reduced the car speed limit to 40.

I’m not sure if there’s some sarcasm I’m missing here or if you really think this?

and many French N roads are now 80 km/h IIRC.

That might be what the law says.  In my experience the French are much better at obeying speed limits in urban areas and completely ignore them once outside urban areas

This proposal has all the hallmarks of revenue generation and little to do with road safety

However, it will lead to increased journey times for many, particularly rural, travellers.

Will it? Very few of my rural journeys in Derbyshire give me much chance to safely go above 50mph, so any increased journey time would be marginal.

HGV’s already do 50mph+ on the A75 (I live <5miles from) and when driving to dumfries from kirkcudbright at the speed limit of 60mph they are regularly parked right up my arse so close that I cannot read their numberplate in my rear view mirror.

Unlike cars, HGVs have calibrated speedometers and a tachograph. If you regularly see them breaking the speed limit / tailgating it’s more likely that it’s you driving under the limit.

Unlike cars, HGVs have calibrated speedometers and a tachograph. If you regularly see them breaking the speed limit / tailgating it’s more likely that it’s you driving under the limit.

You see this regularly on sections of motorway with a 50mph average speed camera section (for roadworks etc).

Cars all doing what, on their speedo, is an indicated 50mph and lorries thundering through at (what looks like) about 56mph and getting all upset when they get stuck behind a car doing (indicated) 50.

Either that or they just don’t care and are ignoring the 50 limit. Who knows?!