Why are Scottish and Welsh folk so patriotic ?

Try flooding valleys in order to provide the English with water

from wikipedia: manmade reservoirs in uk:

Lake Area (sq mi) Location
Rutland Water 4.86 England
Kielder Water 4.25 England
Lake Vyrnwy 3.18 Wales
Pitsford Water 2.85 England
Grafham Water 2.85 England
Chew Valley Lake 1.88 England
Trawsfynydd 1.84 Wales
Llyn Clywedog 1.55 Wales
Carron Valley 1.51 Scotland
Haweswater 1.50 England
Derwent Reservoir 1.44 England
Llyn Brenig 1.44 Wales
Thirlmere 1.25 England
Llyn Celyn 1.25 Wales
Llyn Alaw 1.21 Wales

seems like a reasonable distribution of area of water created by flooding/damming with most being in England.

seems like a reasonable distribution of area of water created by flooding/damming with most being in England.

Point well missed.

I would just like to add a semi irrelevant tangent, and state that being mistaken for English while on Holiday can be quite horrible. Correcting the mistake and identifying oneself as Irish, is almost like declaring yourself a long lost family member. Sorry.

Carry on 🙂

Not pertinent to the discussion but that wikipedia list is pants. 😆

Point well missed.

Not pertinent to the discussion but that wikipedia list is pants.

people have been moved to flood areas of land because of the need for water.
i guess it’s only relevant to the discussion if it’s perpetrated only by the English upon the welsh/scottish.
🙄

Well, in fact it is – some superficial racist judgement.

My point is that the wikipedia list is factually inaccurate. There are many large reservoirs not listed – though none, as far as I know, as supplying water to England.

Eh? The point is surely that flooding valleys is not a cruelty uniquely inflicted on the Welsh (or Scots, for that matter).

Eh? The point is surely that flooding valleys is not a cruelty uniquely inflicted on the Welsh (or Scots, for that matter).

The Welsh were not short of water.

from wikipedia: manmade reservoirs in uk:

Lake Area (sq mi) Location
Rutland Water 4.86 England
Kielder Water 4.25 England
Lake Vyrnwy 3.18 Wales Liverpool and districts
Pitsford Water 2.85 England
Grafham Water 2.85 England
Chew Valley Lake 1.88 England
Trawsfynydd 1.84 Wales
Llyn Clywedog 1.55 Wales Birmingham and West mids
Carron Valley 1.51 Scotland
Haweswater 1.50 England
Derwent Reservoir 1.44 England
Llyn Brenig 1.44 Wales Liverpool
Thirlmere 1.25 England
Llyn Celyn 1.25 Wales Liverpool after steamrollering planning laws
Llyn Alaw 1.21 Wales

i guess it’s only relevant to the discussion if it’s perpetrated only by the English upon the welsh/scottish.

So very relevant in the point of why the Welsh might not be best buddies with the English, which is why the point was raised as DrJ didn’t see why there is currently disdain for the English. Llyn Celyn is a particular sore point. The english can flood as many valleys in order to supply themselves with water. Just don’t expect other nations to be happy when you ride roughshod over them.
Trawsfynydd and Alaw were built to supply the local areas with water and power, so obviously, less contentious.

Eh? The point is surely that flooding valleys is not a cruelty uniquely inflicted on the Welsh (or Scots, for that matter).

Yes, but their point was that the list was pants because it’s inaccurate, not because of anything it showed about the distribution. Hence saying it’s not pertinent to the discussion.

Pfft. Where should they have built the reservoirs? Norfolk??

Pfft. Where should they have built the reservoirs? Norfolk??

I don’t give a flying…….! There’s plenty of places in England where they could have built them and there plenty of ways of going about it. The point was in response to point you raised of not understanding why the Welsh should have animosity towards the English as the battles were way back in history. I offer current reasons and you tell me that I should basically suck it up as you’re unable to accept an English option. So here we have an as up to date reason for the disdain as you could ask for. 😆

I don’t give a flying…….! There’s plenty of places in England where they could have built them and there plenty of ways of going about it. The point was in response to point you raised of not understanding why the Welsh should have animosity towards the English as the battles were way back in history. I offer current reasons and you tell me that I should basically suck it up as you’re unable to accept an English option. So here we have an as up to date reason for the disdain as you could ask for.

That’s just daft – different parts of the country have different characteristics, strengths and weaknesses. Some benefit England, others benefit Wales, or Yorkshire, or wherever. It takes a special kind of paranoia to keep a tally of these things.

If I were forcibly evicted and my village destroyed, in order to provide water for a city in another country, I might feel a bit miffed…

an even spesholer one to still bear a grudge all those years later.

If I were forcibly evicted and my village destroyed, in order to provide water for a city in another country, I might feel a bit miffed…

Really? I’d be miffed but my miffedness would not have anything to do with what part of the country the water was going to.

Absolve the lot. Lets all just go our separate ways.
It’ll be worth it if all it does is silence the bitching and moaning.

the Welsh should have animosity towards the English

Do they? I’ve never noticed it myself.

What kind of rubbish life do you have if you spend all that time ranting and raving against your neighbours for past history. There a great people of all nationalities and also d*cks, find the good ones and avoid the bad ones.

The point was in response to point you raised of not understanding why the Welsh should have animosity towards the English as the battles were way back in history. I offer current reasons and you tell me that I should basically suck it up as you’re unable to accept an English option.

So would you have been OK with this if a Welsh government had built these resevoirs and sold the water to the residents of Birmingham or Manchester or whereever?

It takes a special kind of paranoia to keep a tally of these things.

You’re not doing your position or country any favours. Next you’ll be teeling me how I should feel and react. #empathy

Should the English celebrate being English? Yes, but you don’t start with St. George’s day. Start with beer that is as good as and as varied as whisky is in Scotland. Start with Sheffield steel, or railways, or Brunel, or F1 engineering.

That’s very kind of you, igm, to tell us what we should and shouldn’t do. Good job we don’t reciprocate – imagine how that would be perceived 😉

Which is telling – since the assyemtery in this kind of debate is great to behold. Patriotism in Wales and Scotlanf = arrogance etc in English. What a crock? That can only reflect how one party sees itself – hence the references earlier to chippiness.

All so unnecessary, all the home countries are and should be patriotic and proud of their culture and heritage. I have Welsh grandparents, born and bred largely in England, partially educated (joke) in Scotland and lived overseas. I like to celebrate the rich heritage of all of the home nations. Why ever not, there is lots to be proud of….

I was venue called upon to say the Selkirk grace (in my best accent) on Burns night.

Live and let live and celebrate the wonders of all the home nations.

Really? I’d be miffed but my miffedness would not have anything to do with what part of the country the water was going to.

So if the situation were reversed – that Wales was the dominant power and was destroying your English communities to serve its needs – you’re telling us that this wouldn’t be a factor in your annoyance?

I don’t believe you.

So if the situation were reversed – that Wales was the dominant power and was destroying your English communities to serve its needs – you’re telling us that this wouldn’t be a factor in your annoyance?

He’s already said that he wouldn’t like it, here. 😆

Always hard work explaining that to Americans, who seem to regard England and Britain as synonymous.

They are synonymous given the dictionary definition covers close association. Try telling them you live in Luxembourg if you really want a moronic argument (it’s in Switzerland… no it’s a country… so is Switzerland etc).

If I were forcibly evicted and my village destroyed, in order to provide water for a city in another country, I might feel a bit miffed..

It’s also the same country.

I work in Wales with a fair few welsh people and I’m pretty sure they dont base any dislike of the english on the basis of the building of reservoirs. In my experience the issue which they are more pissed off about is the north wales coast being a dumping ground for all the “problem” residents of england. The vast majority of people don’t really care as long as wales keeps its identity and its rich history is recognised(which in some ways is better than englands IMO). I’d go as far as to say that they more political ones I know hate the Cardiff government more as they believe that the north of the country is ignored. I really enjoy around the world cups (football and rugby) as there is a huge amount of good natured piss taking even though no one I know really cares who wins too much. I must say the guys from scotland are a bit different but they are mainly rangers supporters so that may be a reason…. 😉

which in some ways is better than englands IMO

Wait, we’re in a competition for who has the best history? Surely them Iraqis and Egypians win that one?

I don’t believe you.

As you wish.

i guess a reservoir is an example of the price to pay for being part of the U.K. if they get independence they can maybe sell the water to England? after all they might need the money if you believe what the ONS say:

Public Expenditure

HM Treasury publish a country and regional breakdown of UK public expenditure. Around 86% of this public expenditure is split by country and region (‘identifiable expenditure’). In 2012/13, the UK average identifiable spend per head was £8,788. Northern Ireland had the highest total identifiable public expenditure at £10,876 per head. This was followed by Scotland with £10,152 per head, and Wales at £9,709. England was the only country below the UK average with £8,529 per head. The remaining 14% of non-identifiable expenditure is deemed to be incurred on behalf of the UK as a whole5.

Taxation – Household

In 2009/10 to 2011/12, the annual average direct tax (such as income tax and National Insurance) paid by all UK households was £7,360 per household. By country, Scotland paid £7,056 per household, Northern Ireland paid £5,647 and Wales paid £5,564.

source: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/compendiums/compendium-of-uk-statistics/economy/index.html

I still need to be at the Millenium Stadium to hear LOMF sung before a match v England. The extra passion is wonderful to experience on the TV and most be spine tingling in the flesh. Great anthem.

If only, the Scots could get rid of their turgid flower song that should remain left in the post match showers. As for SLSC that should be banned forever! Although was an amusing wind up during the RWC at Cardiff. Beyond that, nooooooo….

i guess a reservoir is an example of the price to pay for being part of the U.K.

We never asked to be!

If you want the same situation without the mugging, riding in the pyrenees, a group of us are sitting by the road. A little old lady walks past and goes “huh, Jews”. I go “Non mademoiselle, Palestinians”, she smiles and laughs, “Ahhhh, Palestinians, pardon!”.

On Holocaust Memorial Day, that’s a rather crass comparison, isn’t it?

Scots were at the heart of the Empire, serving in great numbers in the military – but you have to ask yourself why that’s the case. Are Scots naturally more violent? Or was it that once Highland culture in particular was crushed after 1745, there wasn’t much else for young men to do? It’s classic behaviour for all empires to recruit their cannon fodder from the peoples they’ve crushed – General Wolfe said of the Highland soldiers that it was “no great mischief if they fall”.

We never asked to be!

Yet ironically Wales was brought into the union to make them EQUAL to England as a subject to the king. Unless you’re bitching about the conquest around 800 years ago in which case, arguing the causes and results of that are probably beyond an MTB forum but probably boils down to “Welsh king provoked English king which resulted in a fight he couldn’t win”

We never asked to be!

We need a “scrap the union” campaign to gather momentum. It would get huge support from every country/province within.

What, in favour of insularity and xenophobia??

No wonder Trump and his ilk seem to have a following….

We need a “scrap the union” campaign to gather momentum. It would get huge support from every country/province within.

i wish this would happen, never will though 😐

It’s a reference to annexing Wales around 500 years ago. It was probably for our own good, so best not complain, eh? 😆

What, in favour of insularity and xenophobia??

Oh, do hush now.

What, in favour of insularity and xenophobia??

Yet ironically it’s insularity and xenophobia that may well pull the UK out of Europe, and lead to the breakup of the UK.

We never asked to be!

Who is we? There wasn’t ever a ‘we’.