Why are Scottish and Welsh folk so patriotic ?

Congratulations Jamie, the first Briton to win since blah, blah, blah!

And well done to Gordon Reid too!

we could bump up the price of gold

How exactly? But don’t tell me just yet as I’m going to buy a couple of oz first.

That’s easy. You just announce to the world that you’re going to buy lots (well, the reverse worked for Gordon Brown)

Slight hijack!

Someone needs to be explained.

MrOvershoot – Member

chewkw – Member
As long as she does not fall into the trap of trying hard to emulate the love thyself look at me I am a brilliant politician and everyone is frighten of me coz I have no life surrounded by yes people coz I am god sent Stooopid Angela Merkel spinster …

Spouse: Joachim Sauer (m. 1998), Ulrich Merkel (m. 1977–1982)

Married twice & still married to Joachim Sauer professor at the Humboldt University of Berlin. He is the husband of the Chancellor of Germany, Angela Merkel. that enough of a clue to her lack of being a spinster? [/quote]

You do know there is something missing from that don’t you? Where are the 2.4 children of theirs? The ones that tag along from her second marriage are not theirs but his. Also what with the gap in between the husbands? Is she just doing it for political moves/career?

Yes, you might not consider those factors important but to me those are not a normal balanced leader and as it is … she is still having the condition of spinster … 🙄

duckman
I am sure that there are racists who voted SNP,but to suggest that they identify with the SNP is quite a leap.

I have never said they identify with the SNP, quite the opposite. The SNP have never outlined any anti immigration policies. Scotlands share of ethnic minorities is paltry compared to the rest of the UK. Where are the black players in Scotland’s football team. This loosely goes back to the OP and a sense of pride in being Scottish. People think at base level that Scotland is less racist/xenohpobic than England. I do not think this is the case and I don’t think that you can state the rise of UKIP as evidence of greater racism in England.

I am not having a dig at Yes/SNP here. I know plenty of SNP voters through work/friends and family that are of the we should look after our own mindset, and do not wish to see immigrants coming to Scotland, same as labour and lib dems. I have experience of this, when there was talk of housing 40 Syrian families in a former nursing home in the town where I grew up there was outrage from many.

I also went along to a Yes meeting when Alex Salmond came to town. Before hand I heard a group talking of their disgust at the intolerance of UKIP. Following a polite and peaceful protest where I turned my back on Salmond, I found my picture on social media with comments alluding to me being a traitor!

Even my mum, who is a long time SNP voter and voted Yes is a bit insular and anti immigration. She thinks we should look after our own.

All I am trying to say to you duckman is that one side is not as virtuous as you think, and the other side is not as bad as you think.

There are people that disagree with me on this topic that I feel articulate above poundland level. Scotroutes and gordimhor are enlightening. Sadly you are less so. 🙁

athgray – Member
All I am trying to say to you duckman is that one side is not as virtuous as you think, and the other side is not as bad as you think.

and … and …(Slight hijack again … )

Just watched BBC Two with that a slight mentioned of the first Labour govt in 1924. Noticed some of the Labour top advisers were communists with strong connection to the Russians …

It looks like Labour was formed with socialist and communist ideologies. Think the latter is actually the driving force as mentioned in documentary …

Crikey … told you. 🙄

It looks like Labour was formed with socialist and communist ideologies

You’ve just worked this out?

Where are the black players in Scotland’s football team.

Ikechi Anya. Given the 4% or so ethnic population 1 player in the current squad is pretty much spot on percentage wise.

I remember bananas being thrown on the pitch back in the 80s when teams played black players. Those days are long gone. If a player is good enough they are good enough.

Question for all sides in the “debate”

How would you react to masked men beating up immigrant children in Heathrow?

And what are youre thoughts be on UK Government plans to deport 80000 or even 520000 “asylum seekers”?

Hypothetically speaking. Assuming those are headlines as you’d read them in the press.

Athgray member.
Nice backtrack,

The so called white van man exists in quantity in Scotland, he may agree with a lot of UKIP but deny it. He probably votes for the SNP.

But then it has ever been thus with you…Oh and you went to a yes rally to protest,and somebody said something nasty to you? Aw didums!

Tell you what,here is a picture of those nasty white van man xenophobes in George Square after the no vote.

Ikechi Anya. Given the 4% or so ethnic population 1 player in the current squad is pretty much spot on percentage wise.

Irc,Ikechi Anya could be considered an anomoly. Who were the black players in the previous squad, or the one before that?

Scotlands black population as of last census was nowhere near 4%. It was less than 1%. My point was not to show that it is harder for black peole to break into the Scotland team, rather it is a crude way to show Scotland lack of ethnic diversity, particular when compared to other parts of the UK.

Piemonster, I would be shocked to see those headlines. I did read about masked gangs beating people up in Stockholm. I think any reasonably minded person would agree that is wrong.

You’re confusing ethnic with black. IIRC, in Edinburgh 16% of the population is English and in Argyll it’s even higher. Seems most supermarkets now have a “Polish” section – and I don’t mean Pledge or Mr Sheen. 🙂

@Athgray

Both examples are from Sweden http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/28/sweden-to-expel-up-to-80000-rejected-asylum-seekers

I was referring to the statistic that 90 percent of the Welsh population lives within 50 miles of the English border. It’s different to Scotland.

Wales at its narrowest is approx 50 miles from the English border, Barmouth to Oswestry!!

Coming from Welsh speaking Gwynedd and Welsh speaker myself, we know that in this age total independence is a bad idea, patriotism and nationalism doesn’t get in the way of common sense, my entire family who are fiercely welsh think of Plaid as a load of idiots, they are labour voters and always will be… although worryingly UKIP had made an impression on some family members.

We are more pissed off that Cardiff and the South gets all the investment. We have closer ties in the North with Liverpool than we do with Cardiff.

Piemonster
The expulsion story is harder to guage. Sweden has lets in the highest number of asylum seekers per capita in Europe. I don’t know the criteria they use to reject applications. The masked gang story is terrible.

How would you react to masked men beating up immigrant children in Heathrow?

Personally? If I saw it I’d be after them with anything to hand. Reading about what happened in Sweden, total disgust and revulsion.

And what are youre thoughts be on UK Government plans to deport 80000 or even 520000 “asylum seekers”?

My thoughts are I’d want to know a lot more about who these people are, why they’re being deported, and where to.

Scotlands black population as of last census was nowhere near 4%. It was less than 1%

You said ethnic not black. The Scottish govt thinks it’s 4% ethnic population.

http://www.gov.scot/Topics/People/Equality/Equalities/DataGrid/Ethnicity/EthPopMig

Anyway if you are narrowing it to black How many more players do you expect 1% of the population to provide for a team. One seems OK to me.

Who were the black players in the previous squad, or the one before that?

1 from 60 is still more than expected on a population basis. Do you honestly think the Scotland team can afford not to pick good players?

my entire family who are fiercely welsh think of Plaid as a load of idiots, they are labour voters and always will be… although worryingly UKIP had made an impression on some family members.

We are more pissed off that Cardiff and the South gets all the investment.

Thing is, they’re getting exactly what they voted for.

Labour’s vision is One Nation – that’s Britain. With Cardiff viewed as a British city rather than the capital of a nation.

The Welsh Gov’s economic minister, Edwina Hart, has said that north Wales should look towards the ‘Northern Powerhouse’ for its jobs/prosperity.

So hit the A55. It’s not her job.

I rather think that athgray was just using the the football analogy to show how few black people were in Scotland, not suggesting that there was a racial element to team selection.

Your first point still stands though – there are plenty of areas with a large ethnic population. Anyway, most black people originate in warm countries. It’s no surprise they don’t want to move to Scotland.

Good to see Welsh politics and identity being discussed on here. Compare to the amount of Scottish and even Northern English discussion.. Most STWers think Wales is just a place to build trail centres that’s handy for London 🙂

Thanks scotroutes. That is exactly what meant. You are correct that some areas see higher levels of immigration than others. Glasgow is far more ethnicly diverse than Edinburgh.

Regarding Wales, and to use a rugby analogy if I may..

All the Pro clubs/regions are along the Southern edge of Wales. Northern Welsh clubs have more links with Sale than with the Welsh regional set up it seems, certainly Welsh clubs are regular participants in the mini & junior tournaments that Sale host.
Am I to take it that this sense of Northern Welsh abandonment extends further than just the sporting area of Welsh life?

Geography, innit.

Lots of population the South, and it’s from an industrial heritage mostly. Then in the middle there’s a huge (relatively) tract of hardly anyone except farmers, then in the North there’s a different industrial background. Even transport is difficult. If you’re in Bangor it takes about 4-5 hours to get to Cardiff, and about an hour to get to Liverpool or Manchester.

These things have always been there though, going back to before the Norman Conquest. The big kingdoms in the North were a different lot to those in the South. They only gained any sense of identiy in response to the Saxon invasion – it was the bits where the Saxons didn’t end up. They were all just British tribes, Wales didn’t really exist before the Saxons. The language is also somewhat different. In English there is standard English and dialects or slang; in Wales there are two equal versions.

So there’s a distinct difference between North and South and as in England, with one end having most of the economic activity and consequently investment, the other end gets annoyed.

Now I wasn’t aware that there are two versions of Welsh, every day is a school day etc.

Am I to take it that this sense of Northern Welsh abandonment extends further than just the sporting area of Welsh life?

Sport’s just one area but it’s a good example of how everything in Wales slides sideways. It’s hard to get any kind of a national league because of the problems of crap transport between north and south.

The idea of building a decent motorway or railway to link up north and south is still viewed as the kind of madcap idea only rabid Welsh nationalists would support.

Main roads in Wales

Rail network in Wales

If you start it they will come… 😆

I’m certainly finding it interesting. As I’ve already said on this thread it’s a country I know little about. That, of course, means I choose not to speculate on affairs there and hence display my ignorance.

Compare to the amount of Scottish and even Northern English discussion..

Ah, if only more folk could follow my lead,

Well, it is a bit of a nationalistic idea. Why would people from North Wales head down to Cardiff to do business anyway when two major English cities are so close? Even if they ploughed a motorway through it would still be a 2.5 hour drive.

Government is the bigger issue, but that could be an easy technological solution. Are there WA offices in N Wales?

We are more pissed off that Cardiff and the South gets all the investment.

That’s always going to be the case. For Cardiff in Wales you can just as easily write, London in England and Edinburgh in Scotland, the capitals always get more.

Just as way of comaprison between Wales and Scotland, welsh cities are so much nearer major English ones than anything in Scotland. Cardiff is only 40 miles from Bristol and 120 from London. North Wales is very close to Liverpool and Manchester, hence there is much greater transfer of people and ideas. Plenty of English in Wales and Welsh in England.

It is a nationalistic idea but no more so than any other project which is aimed at improving a nation’s infrastructure. HS2 is also.

I think, it depends on whether you view Wales as a westerly region of Britain or as a country.

The Welsh Assembly has some kind of office in Colwyn Bay but it serves no real function. When the Assembly was being set-up there were various ideas about having a north and south base, also that video links could be used to create a north Wales ‘hub’ but they didn’t go anywhere.

Only ever had a few short stay trips to north Wales. I did not know the transport problems were so bad, but with hindsight I can understand. It seemed take us ages to get about.

I also worked with a couple of guys that I thought were from liverpool from their accent. Both were actually from north Wales.

I also worked with a couple of guys that I thought were from liverpool from their accent. Both were actually from north Wales.

People have often mistaken my accent for that of Liverpool. Liverpool at one stage had a huge Welsh population so big that they had a couple of Eisteddfods (Welsh cultural festival) there, not sure now though.

Public transport is crap in North Wales, but stunning and quiet roads to get about tho…

Once on a holiday near Shrewsbury I thought I would take a drive across to climb up Snowdon. The drive through Llangollen and Betws y Coed seemed to take forever. Lovely scenery though.

As molgrips says no transport links, the main n/s trunk road is the A470 which is a joke, I’ve been 5hrs from Brecon to N Wales on a Friday evening. There is some talk of improving n/s rail links and reopening a line from Carmarthen to Aberystwyth.

If your in the north you look to Liverpool / Manchester, Liverpool in known as the capital of N. Wales. If your in Mid Wales you look to Shrewsbury / Hereford and even Birmingham – if you live in Mid Wales and you need cancer treatment you get sent to Cheltenham! The coast between Aber down to Newquay is known as Birmingham by the sea.

Nothing is going to change until their is a change in the current very lack lustre Labour administration in Cardiff Bay – their support almost exclusively come from the valleys and as far as thy are concerned that is Wales – it finishes somewhere about the line of the heads of the valleys road. Carwyn Jones went up to N Wales to look at floods recently and it looked like he had been parachuted onto another planet.

Their is a good tradition of liberal and even non partisan politics in Wales, Powys CC is controlled by independents (48 out of 73 seats).

My hope for Wales would be a Plaid / Liberal administration come next May with perhaps a few independents.

They could do with reopening the line north of Merthyr to Brecon and onwards too – I think it used to link up to Hereford or somewhere.

If your in the north you look to Liverpool / Manchester, Liverpool in known as the capital of N. Wales

Never heard that one, always understood Wrexham to be the capital of the north.

I was told (in Porthmadog) that there is/was a lot of antipathy about Liverpudlians in N.Wales, may have been having my leg pulled though!

I expect that happens whenever a lot of people from one place turn up somewhere different, get pissed up and buy holiday homes etc.

I was told (in Porthmadog) that there is/was a lot of antipathy about Liverpudlians in N.Wales, may have been having my leg pulled though!

There is. Due to the fact that a couple of villages were drowned to build reservoirs, Celyn for example..

But for example everyone who follows football supports two teams, a local team and a premiership team… Mostly Liverpool or Everton!! I dont know of anyone in North Wales who supports Cardiff or Swansea , although they may exist