Who’s gone sub compact on their road bike(s)?

Thanks to a painfully strict cycling upbringing (Dad cycling behind me shouting at me every time I crossed my chain or didn’t pedal with balls of feet on pedals) I still get OCD about chainline and chain angle.

Right now when I’m out on the road bike, admittedly most doing easy/zone 2 rehab stuff, I always gravitate to big ring and the upper end of my cassette, don’t think I stray into the bottom 3 or 4 cogs unless it’s a downhill.

A Praxis chainset would actually improve my chainline anyway by dint of the chainring spacing, but also going 48/32 would only deny me one higher gear, slightly decrease gaps between ratios and allow me to use the lower end of the cassette where the single tooth differences reside, useful for flat TT efforts.

I could even save a tiny bit of weight by shortening my chain, win-win-win!

Anyone made the change? Any drawbacks I’m not seeing other than general derision from faster fitter mates?

Downside?

Praxis.

Really?

I actually took some off my Allez because they were longer than I like, they were light, really nicely finished and get good reviews.

What’s the issue?

I used to ride a cyclo cross bike on the road with 48/36 rings. With an 11 up cassette it worked fine for road riding. 48-11 is still a reasonably tall gear.

I dunno if it’s just because I’m an unfit bimbler (ahem) or whether I just prefer to spin my legs, but even though I live in almost the flattest part of the country I rarely need to bother the large ring on my chainset (on my road bike)….

I find I’m always using the inner ring & smaller end of the cassette. Flicking to the large chainring, means I then shift right up the cassette to larger cogs which seems a bit stupid.
I went for a ride on Tuesday; 43km with an average speed of 28.5km/h & virtually no climbing (136m if you must know). I dunno if that’s fast or slow, but I really only felt like I needed to shift into the large ring once i got over 30km/h or so.

Ages ago for my old road bike I bought a Stronglight 48t ring to try out, but I could never get it to work properly (turns out swapping to a Sora chainset from the original sq taper meant the rings were too close to the frame for the mech to work properly).
I keep meaning to try fitting this 48t ring to my current road bike chainset, but have never checked whether it is compatible. I think it will just be enough of a change to mean I’ll get more use out of the larger ring & will have the added bonus that the jump from small to large ring won’t be so big…..

What cassette range are you thinking ?

My current road bike came with 50-34; about the only change I’ve made is to swap the 34 for a 36 … 11-28 cassette with that. I could certainly live with a 48 up front; but if I was on a 32 on the front I’d be going with an 11-25 cassette. 36/28 32/25 are both ~ 1.28 ratio

43km with an average speed of 28.5km/h & virtually no climbing (136m if you must know). I dunno if that’s fast or slow, but I really only felt like I needed to shift into the large ring once i got over 30km/h or so.

Not dissimilar to my ride this morning. Regardless of whether I’m fast or slow I’m not going to be getting significantly faster any time soon and abandoned any pride/shame about average speeds back in my early 30s…

If I ever do get fitter it’ll be because I’m training for some big rides in the Alps, so I’m sure that sub-compact chainset with still be very welcome!

I do like being in the big ring as much as possible though, I’m sure it feels better, I think there’s something to do with increased chain wrap and less friction, or something. It might just be that the chain is under more tension and doesn’t make as much noise!

What cassette range are you thinking ?

I’d stick with my 11-28 for now, I’d rather still have the option to spin on steep bits rather than grind, although I’m hoping as I get stronger I’ll be able to tolerate more grinding (so to speak…).

Previously I’d contemplated going 11-30 or 12-30 for the Raid Pyrenean next year, but it feels like I’d use it for the week then never use it again, for the sake of one lower gear. Going sub-compact seems like a better compromise.

Still waiting to hear about Scotroute’s experiences with Praxis, had planned on getting some carbon Zayantes for the good bike as well!

I would think 17mph is a typical speed for a fairly fit cyclist. It is about what I do and I am currently on a gearing of 32/14 and to average 17mph means a cadence of 90RPM which is where I am comfortable.

Downside?

Praxis.

Occasionally wonder what the problem is that people have with the Praxis chainset?

No creaks, no flex, no issues with shifting. I have a set on my Diverge and have had no issues in 4 years, other than the cost of replacing the chainrings- it was cheaper to pick up an ebay chainset ripped off a new bike than to buy new rings.

Praxis Alba on the Specialized Diverge.

Shit BBs

Soft rings that were easily damaged.

Lack of replacement rings.

I was seriously looking at them until the experience we had with the hire fleet. I was then looking at the Miche Graff but (a) Shimano rode to the rescue with GRX and (b) I found out I could run a 40T cassette with a standard compact anyway.

When I was fitter I found that I was changing gear with the front mech as much as the rear as the sweat spot for pedalling lay somewhere between the two chainrings which I found quite frustrating.

Now when I’m grinding my way up hills struggling to keep up with my eldest as he effortlessly spins his way up the option for a couple of easier gears is a no brainer.

Ive been toying with this idea for a while, I have a ridley x trail carbon all road bike, currently set up 34-50 ultegra chainset and 11-30 cassette on the road wheels, i also ave a spare set of gravel wheels on 11-36 cassette, this is not low enough for some of the steeper loose climbs around here. I rarely use the 11 or 12 tooth cog on the back on the road when out riding. I’ve been thinking about a 30-46 grx chainset for a while and actually think this may speed up average pace as I spend most of my time on the road if flat or rolling in the 50 t at present but at the bigger end of the cassette, so being in 46 would mean the smaller end of cassette and smaller jumps between cogs and also needing to go into the smaller ring on the front less often and for climbing more time seated and spinning out a good cadence than stood up. My bigger dilema is the bike will only take a 36mm tyre and I have a spare set of wheels, 105 hydor shifters, seatpost and seat, rear mech and stem, so i’m not far off a full gravel build on a sonder camino frame that will take much bigger tyres and using the ridley purely for road. or flogging the frameset and building one of those delighful looking volare disc framesets currently half price:)

I think I could live with points 2 and 3, I don’t wear drivetrains too badly probably due to my feeble annual mileage split over three or four bikes!

What’s shit about the BBs? Don’t Praxis make replacement BBs part of their business? As I understand it they use a bigger axle and therefore bigger diameter bearings, otherwise they are the same overall design as HT2?

Ta

Interesting subject this. I seem to have turned into a masher on the road recently. I blame power meters😂 Anyway my average cadence on the road is between 72 and 76. In the winter on the turbo I could average above 100 for an hour no problem. What cadence are you guys averaging? I think a higher cadence would be better for me to avoid aches if I do a multi day event.

and allow me to use the lower end of the cassette where the single tooth differences reside, useful for flat TT efforts

I think your logic is flawed there. The single tooth differences may indeed be at that end of the cassette, but in percentage terms they are likely to be the same as the differences at the other end of the cassette…

aren’t they?

Had similar thoughts myself recently, ended up on a 48-34 front and 11-32 or 11-34 rear. Light road/audax/winter kind of bike. Figured that lower gears were good but I didn’t want to go too small on the rings – as you say, more chain running over more teeth with less chain wrap angle runs better and for me drivetrain life is important on this bike. Plus, FD and chainset choice is better if I can make it all work with a std road chainset.

You can go to 34 rear with road mechs and STIs now (or bigger with extenders/good set up) and although the gaps are bigger than I’d like they’re not a problem unless you’re bunch/club riding. Still prefer the 11-34 to a gappier 1x set up on a drop bar bike, and the bigger jumps mean the equivalent gear to the big ring to bigger rear sprockets of an 11-25 or 11-28 is now closer to big ring to middle of an 11-34.

I’m running a GRX chainset 46-30, works well for me with an 11-34 cassette but is used for offroad too. Also 48-31 GRX chainset available if you wanted a bit of a larger top ring. Not sure if chainline is different for GRX groupset though

I’ve been thinking about a 30-46 grx chainset for a while

Yeah, I have GRX 810 on my gravel bike, lovely chainset etc. but my OCD doesn’t like the chainline, it’s designed for 135mm OLD disc brake use so is further out from the frame than ideal for a 130mm hub. I tried spacing the rings back in but of course the derailleur low limit prevents how much you can space the rings.

I’m about to go sub compact (GRX) on a winter/Audax/touring build. 48/32 and 11-34.

I’m an overweight middle aged plodder. Hills are not my friend. Having tried subcompact on a gravel bike, I’m convinced that for steady rides, hilly rides and loaded rides it gives me a better range of usable gears, protects my knees, leaves me less fatigued, and actually makes little difference to real world average speeds.

Summer bike may well remain on a standard compact for now, we’ll see.

My chainset is Praxis, no problems in 12 months

I think your logic is flawed there. The single tooth differences may indeed be at that end of the cassette, but in percentage terms they are likely to be the same as the differences at the other end of the cassette…

aren’t they?

…..mind. blown.

You’re absolutely right, in fact I’d already done a wee spreadsheet which makes that quite clear.

So there won’t be a reduction in the size of gaps between ratios, in fact the gaps will get slightly bigger. But I enjoy an improved chainline, there must be some marginal gains associated with that right? 😉

What cadence are you guys averaging? I think a higher cadence would be better for me to avoid aches if I do a multi day event.

I don’t often have cadence outdoors, but I know I tend to spin at least 85rpm, lower than that on the turbo feels unnatural. I’ve been told that higher cadence is generally kinder to the body and allows for quicker recovery, even within an 1 hour race context I was told to make attacks at higher cadences as the legs recover quicker.

I had read though that lower cadences are typically more efficient, I guess in terms of heart rate and energy burn etc.

But I enjoy an improved chainline, there must be some marginal gains associated with that right?

Defo. Stands to reason that if the chain is slightly diagonal to the direction of bike travel then the wind resistance will be higher than if it was in a straight line.
Not to mention all those bumps and joins in the chain making it even worse.

🙂
:-0

Had similar thoughts myself recently, ended up on a 48-34 front and 11-32 or 11-34 rear. Light road/audax/winter kind of bike.

Virtually identical on my CX which does road / gravel mixed riding. 34/48 with an 11-36 10sp cassette.

SRAM do some really compact chainsets (33/45) now to run with a 10-36 cassette which still gives a range as good as a compact, the 10T cog being critical in getting that high gear.

SRAM do some really compact chainsets (33/45) now to run with a 10-36 cassette which still gives a range as good as a compact, the 10T cog being critical in getting that high gear.

SRAM Force Wide has chainsets down to 43/30! I quite like the idea of that with the 12sp 36-11 cassette. Bit spendy though.

I use a 46/36 on one road bike, and a 53/39 on the other, both with 12/25 (10 speed) cassettes. I can’t say there’s much difference, aside from being able to stay in the big ring for longer with the 46. The front shifting is crisp on both (better than a 50/34).

A 28/11 cassette is a good choice, and it’d be what I’d use (well a 29/12) if I were to do a day of riding very steep or long climbs. But I’ve never seen the point in fitting a cassette with gears that I’d rarely/never use. So I’d say buy a couple of cassettes – one for your usual riding, and one if you’re planning on a big Alpine trip or similar.

I have a Shimano FC-CX50 chainset on my Cannondale CAADX commuter, and I love it! Admittedly, I’m a bit of a spinner, but a 2×11 setup with a 11-28 on the back suits me perfectly.

Hmm… turns out the cheapest way to do it is just to get some Absolute Black 48/32 rings, after I’d told myself I was going to stop buying oval rings as well! (an expensive habit over 3 bikes…).

£200 for Praxis chainset, BB and tool, or £135 for Absolute Black rings and bolts. Seems like a no-brainer really…

Interesting thread. I’m using a compact on both road and gravel bikes, with an 11-28 for road, and 11-32 for the gravel and am happy with both.

The only reason I’m chipping in is that 2 years ago, I’d have been tempted to drop down to lower ratios and stick a sub-compact on the front, with a wider range on the back, but as I’ve done more miles on the road (and especially as my son has got quicker), I’ve found that I’ve “grown” into the compact and now find it a comfortable range for the riding I do and the speed that I ride at. Likewise, I’ve become used to the 34-28 climbing gear and while I’d rather not have anything harder (it’s hilly in Yorkshire!), I also don’t feel the need to have anything easier and enjoy the tighter ratios that come from a narrower range cassette when group riding at speed.

I guess the point I’m making is that gears aren’t for life and you can change them as your riding and fitness dictate, so don’t be afraid to mix things up!

where can you get teh absolute black rings and bolts for 135?

You can buy sub-compacts from FSA direct: https://shop.fullspeedahead.com/en/cranksets/road/omega-crankset

I’ve found that I’ve “grown” into the compact and now find it a comfortable range for the riding I do and the speed that I ride at. Likewise, I’ve become used to the 34-28 climbing gear and while I’d rather not have anything harder (it’s hilly in Yorkshire!), I also don’t feel the need to have anything easier

I know what you mean, I’m happy with my current gearing and only plan to get fitter so would probably eventually end up 1 or 2 sprockets further down the block anyway for any given stretch of road.

Could end up being a lot of money just to slightly improve chainline…

where can you get teh absolute black rings and bolts for 135?

I hesitated to tell you in case they sold out, but that will probably help my decision making! 😉

Probikekit seem to be selling them 25% off.

Probikekit seem to be selling them 25% off.

Lol, and with suspiciously good timing, ProBikeKit have just sent me a 12% off discount code, reducing price to £115 for 48/32 rings.

The code expires in 6 minutes, forcing a decision. Quick check of spreadsheet and I realise that for a given combo with a 50 tooth ring, e.g. 50-21, the nearest equivalent ratio with a 48 tooth ring is… 48-21! So with that the last of my assumed benefits goes pop. Definitely not worth the money.

Thanks for joining me on this little journey of discovery though…

^ But it’s still 4% smaller and oval rings (imo/ime etc) are easier to turn over as you get to the lower cadence stage.

I have an equivalent of sub compact on my tourer. .. 48t outer ring

The only time I take issue with it is when out with the winter chain gang and things get spicy with the prevailing wind on a Tuesday evening (with the culter boys barreling along the campfield road to Bert’s -purely for aberdeenlune that comment ) .

Run out of gears to hold with them.

The rest of the time unless loaded up it lives in the big ring.

If I had a 48 on my actual road bike I think I would go through them like sweets. A standard double would probably be a better bet for me. 53/39 instead of this 36/52 we get now as I’d probably get more use of a 39.

I fear I would just end up using my 11 tooth cog more if I had smaller rings. Then again that may force my cadence to improve. I have 53/39 on my winter bike 52/36 on both summer bikes. The winter one will be changed. I really don’t need a 53. Then again I have a 58 single chainring on my TT bike. My new mantra should be spin spin spin to win

Ive been running a smaller gear (physically larger) cassette for years (13-28). Ive never missed the high gears TBH.

I’m too gripit to fit a 58 to my TT bike. Still rolling a 53 and have not got that wound up enough to worry me. I avoid hilly courses …. And there’s not many net decline courses locally/regionally….. Drumoak horseshoe being one of the few I know.

At which point are you defined a masher? I like to be around 90-100 when giving it beans but noticed I naturally when just cruising sit more or less at 80 if I’m not thinking about it .

My cadence seems to vary massively, I guess from lots of singlespeeding. Just ticking allong in a group its 90-95, but then if I put some effort in it goes up to 100-105 (i.e. i shift down a gear when im at the front). But on hills I prefer a lower cadence arround 80-85.

13thfloormonk

The code expires in 6 minutes, forcing a decision. Quick check of spreadsheet and I realise that for a given combo with a 50 tooth ring, e.g. 50-21, the nearest equivalent ratio with a 48 tooth ring is… 48-21! So with that the last of my assumed benefits goes pop. Definitely not worth the money.

I dunno what chainset you are running, but you get Stronglight chainrings from Spa Cycles pretty cheaply.
The Dural 48T outer I bought (but never fitted) is £21 & the inner ring is only £16 – £37 for the pair.

I might have a look and see if I can fit the 48T ring onto my Apex chainset – if it fits, the only issue will be putting a silver chainring on a black chainset…gah!