The woman was dressed in such a way that one might assume she was inviting questions about her heritage.

What what what ?

The funniest bit of an otherwise sad story is the ‘life time of service’ angle a lot of people seem to be taking.

franksinatra – that was petronella wyatt acting as an apologist.
Yes that one; johnson’s former mistress – one of them – who had an abortion and miscarriage with him and then talked about it when he didn’t leave his wife, as he had promised to do.
It gives an insight into how that group/’social class’ think about people of colour.

https://twitter.com/AdamRutherford/status/1598261063270780929/photo/1

Yes that one; johnson’s former mistress – one of them – who had an abortion and miscarriage with him and then talked about it when he didn’t leave his wife, as he had promised to do.
It gives an insight into how that group/’social class’ think about people of colour.

I don’t wish to derail this thread, but it really doesn’t. It might give an insight into how she views marital fidelity, but nothing else.

What if some one has an unusual name and you ask where it comes from?

I do and I have been. I’m half-German, which tends to illicit responses about WW2 and football.

But I’m not a person of colour so I don’t visibly stand out from the crowd. The crap that people who do visibly belong to minority groups have to put up with depresses me massively though.

This reminds me actually, I was once at a BBQ where one of the families there was hosting a Japanese student for a bit who was studying English. She was there too, she was nice, but her English wasn’t that great so conversations were a bit tricky and had to be simplified to a certain extent

At one point one of the other guests said to her something along the lines of “can you tell if someone is Korean or Chinese…” and then mid-sentence realising that she was effectively saying “…because you all look the same to me“. Watching her trying to dig her way out of that in such a way that the Japanese girl could understand, but that would not be hugely offensive, was both awful, and hilarious.

That reminds me of my female University Japanese friend from Yokohama who once said to my friend from London that she wanted to go to the “bug**r” bar instead of Burger bar. My friend tried very hard to keep a straight face, while I thought it was just another pronunciation. London friend then explained to me and we had a good laugh. Later that day we actually explained the meaning to her and she was slightly embarrassed. LOL!

Reading the original quote, i was going to say that it is clear Prince phil rubbed off on her. But i guess that is inappropriate

What if some one has an unusual name and you ask where it comes from?

I get this quite often. My stock reply is “my dad.”

Of course it isn’t, but any intentions beyond interstest will be likely become clear very quickly.

Of course. In and of itself, “where are you from” is a reasonable question.

Go to anywhere non-touristy in the US and open your mouth, it’ll be the first thing they ask. And they really, genuinely are interested and want to know exactly where you’re from despite often having a grasp of UK geography which lends itself to questions like “whereabouts in England is Scotland?” It’s harmless and quite sweet really (though it took me ages to find a satisfactory answer for them).

However, a persistent cross-examination including phrases like “your people” with a triumphant ‘got there in the end!’ is not taking an interest, it’s Othering. You’re not like us, are you, not really, you’re just pretending. Why don’t you piss off back where you came from.

I think this is a case of looking for racism where racism doesn’t exist.

I’m unsurprised.

The woman was dressed in such a way that one might assume she was inviting questions about her heritage.

???????

I do get asked where I am from – because my name and accent does not match being scottish born and bred.  I don’t take offense but depending on the circumstances I do sometimes answer in such a way as to disconcert the person asking.  Answering “Edinburgh” and refusing to elaborate and you can see folk groping for a non offensive follow up question.  I do tend to elaborate after a few moments awkward silence tho.

The woman was dressed in such a way that one might assume she was inviting questions about her heritage.

I think (hope) that was meant to be a sarcastic joke satirising the standard victim blaming responses from the establishment, perhaps a little too dry to be picked up on.

That cartoon actually puts the lunacy of the question into perfect clarity doesn’t it?👍

I think (hope) that was meant to be a sarcastic joke satirising the standard victim blaming responses from the establishment, perhaps a little too dry to be picked up on.

Nope

I will regularly ask people where their accent is from, irrespective of whether it is a foreign or UK accent, I find people are very relaxed about having an interest shown towards them and happy to talk about where they spent their childhoods.

Often they will ask me to guess and a couple of weeks ago a lady on a bike ride was well impressed that I correctly guessed Guyana. She only had a very slight accent but as it was clearly Carribbean and she was of Indian heritage Guyana wasn’t difficult to guess.

In the course of getting to know someone through work etc I will sometimes ask them if they were born in the UK, I have no inhibition about that as along with 40% of Londoners I wasn’t born in the UK myself. I will occasionally ask someone if their parents were born in the UK depending on the conversation and whether it is discussing culture etc.

I certainly don’t treat the subject of heritage, ethnicity, etc, as taboo subjects, but do so in the context of genuine interest in a person. Lady Hussey’s relentless interrogation of a complete stranger was bang out of order. If it was as alleged then it was clearly totally hostile. The fact that Ngozi Fulani was invited in the first place and Hussey was in effect sacked actually reflects quite well on the royal family/Camilla imo.

I will regularly ask people where their accent is from, irrespective of whether it is a foreign or UK accent

What do you make of Ngozi Fulani’s accent? Would you bother to ask her where it was from? I doubt it, and if you did you’d stop inquiring at this point, I’m sure…

Me: I am born here and am British.
SH: No, but where do you really come from, where do your people come from?

I’m unsurprised.

I’m not surprised that you’re unsurprised.

Interesting though that Lady Susan Hussey’s father in law was colonial administrator in East and West Africa, .As educator and who has written several books on his experiences there.

So from that we can expect family photos and interest in family history of that country.

wouldn’t you think 😕

Maybe all this gets us a step closer to knowing who it was who was concerned about the colour of Harry and Megan’s baby…?

My sympathy has mellowed somewhat now the lady in question is claiming she was abused because the foolish old dear touched her hair without her permission. Surprising choice of words coming from someone who runs a charity helping domestic abuse victims.

I find the whole area of racism a bit of a minefield really, to the point of avoiding asking questions out of a genuine interest, for fear of causing offence.

I grew up in the Yorkshire Dales in the 60s and 70s when casual conversational racism was commonplace and school friends with slightly darker than usual complexions were given racially offensive nicknames and non of us had ever seen or met a person of non british heritage. As I grew up I found it easy to leave those ways behind having realised how abhorent racism is and having met people from other cultures.

Having met with and worked with/for quite a few of the ‘Landed Gentry’ types I can well believe that no offence was meant by the conversation which was most likely born out of a cack handed effort to make small talk and possibly a genuine interest because of familly backgrund coupled with an immense lack of awareness born out of living the lives they do. Oooh, a bit of class stereotyping prejudice there, and here’s some more. Despite being ‘well spoken’ a hell of a lot of them are piss poor communicators and thick as mince but not actually unpleasant people.

My sympathy has mellowed somewhat now the lady in question is claiming she was abused because the foolish old dear touched her hair without her permission.

that is assault in UK law

My sympathy has mellowed somewhat now the lady in question is claiming she was abused because the foolish old dear touched her hair without her permission. Surprising choice of words coming from someone who runs a charity helping domestic abuse victims.

On the contrary. I’d say she’d be perfectly qualified to comment on issues involving respecting personal boundaries

What do you make of Ngozi Fulani’s accent?

How do you pronounce her name anyway?

Erm-gozi? N-gozi? Ng-gozi?

My Zulu friend is Ndlovu pronounce as Ng-lovu.

My sympathy has mellowed somewhat now the lady in question is claiming she was abused because the foolish old dear touched her hair without her permission.

I actually can’t make up my mind whether pushing her hair to one side to read her name isn’t the most offensive aspect of the whole unfortunate interaction.

I wouldn’t call it assault but I would call it extraordinarily rude and insulting. How dare she touch a grown adult woman without permission as if she is a child?

stuhawk
Free Member
My sympathy has mellowed somewhat now the lady in question is claiming she was abused because the foolish old dear touched her hair without her permission.

In fairness I’ve heard that its a bit of a common issue that black people have had over the years, people touching their hair as it’s “different”. The Color Purple alludes to this in the “punch scene”.

Now, in this instance, it was to read the name badge apparently but I can see why it could cause an issue for various reasons in this context and others.

My sympathy has mellowed somewhat now the lady in question is claiming she was abused because the foolish old dear touched her hair without her permission.

That’s actually something that people of African descent seemingly (only because I have no first hand experience) have to put up with a lot. Like, folk touching their hair to see what it feels like, uninvited. So I could understand someone feeling violated after the umpteenth ignorant twunt has a feel of their dreadlocks, afro or whatever style they may have. I have no idea why anyone would think it’s okay to invade someone’s personal space in that way but clearly people do.

@tjagain

What what what ?

<sorry>

</not_sorry>

(I actually agree with you)

Ernie – its would be considered assault in UK law.  Assault is actually a very low bar as it were

I’ve been thinking about this this morning, as I initially thought the same. But I’ve realised that if I met someone white at a do, I wouldn’t give their ‘roots’ any thought at all (unless, to be fair, I heard them speak with a particular accent or they were wearing a beret, a stripey top and a string if onions around their neck or something). I’ve realised that the reason I might be, what I initially thought innocently, interested in someone non-white’s ‘roots’ is because of just that, they’re not white. I’ve therefore based at least part of my interest and, in some way, opinion, of them on the colour of their skin. And that, I think, is unconscious racism. I think.

Well, you say you’d be interested in a white person’s origins if you heard an unusual accent or something. Isn’t that the same as seeing a black/brown/purple person? One of their physical features shows, very obviously, that they are not originally from here.
I don’t think it’s racism to see that, or be curious, just to discriminate because of it.

I often hear people speaking a language or with an accent I don’t recognise or something and am curious where they’re from, simply because I have a strong interest in different cultures and so on. Never ask though, because apparently it’s racist.
Yes I get it’s a sensitive issue and there are real problems, it’s a difficult issue and a fine line sometimes but there’s no point pretending everyone’s the same.
Even in this case, the lady (not Lady) in question is making a point of her culture: “Sistah Space”

I’m white British but “different” cos of what I wear, do not mind at all people asking questions out of genuine interest.

a beret, a stripey top and a string if onions around their neck

Racist! 😉

ossify

I’m white British but “different” cos of what I wear, do not mind at all people asking questions out of genuine interest.

That situation is very different from the topic of this thread if you reflect upon it a little though.

and she got a medal…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Household_Long_and_Faithful_Service_Medal

wanted to go to the “bug**r” bar instead of Burger bar.

My son’s first language for a while was German. His first first language so to speak.

Anyway the Frankonian word for digger is Bagger, which is pronounced Bugger.

Whenever we were out and about in the early years he’d get excited about seeing big duggers and tractors ( as any small boy would) and would shout any time he saw one. Much to the consternation of other people on the train/ bus/school trip

Happy days

Ernie – its would be considered assault in UK law. Assault is actually a very low bar as it were

Yeah I understand that but I wouldn’t call it assault myself**, just extraordinarily rude and unacceptable. Possibly even ruder and even less acceptable than asking someone where they come from.

This was from the former Queen’s bedchamber-whatever lady, you would expect a reasonable level of etiquette and politeness FFS. I bet she didn’t touch Mrs Windsor’s hair without permission.

**I am not the law.

And there was me getting you confused with Judge Dredd 🙂

I lie about my origins because I was born in Dewsbury.

Isn’t that the same as seeing a black/brown/purple person? One of their physical features shows, very obviously, that they are not originally from here.

No, it’s not. The lady in question is, originally, from Hackney. Assuming that she’s ‘not originally from here’ because of the colour of her skin is, I’m afraid, racist.

Asked a related question of a colleague today over lunch, after she’d said something about going to visit family in Eritrea. Long answer/conversation involving north London, Ethiopia and Eritrea (language, religions, script, cycling culture, director of WHO, war her accountant father fought in for six years), and the fact that as her passport is Swedish despite being brought up here from the age of five, she’s applying to stay and has done the citizenship test.

I didn’t get asked the question back. I mean, I might have had an equally interesting if shorter answer. Leeds. Leeds is pretty interesting, right?

(Obv sensitive territory best avoided by unpleasant racists -are there pleasant ones?-, but many people like to talk about their backgrounds, and it would be a shame to be frightened of asking about this stuff, if not as an opening gambit. Though actually I will ask “what’s brought you here” of someone with an obviously distant accent. I mean why not? Makes for a more interesting Uber ride for all concerned.)

There’s a big difference between asking “where are you from?” once and repeating the same question and disregarding the given answers more than nine times in a row. That’s hideous.

I’m sure that it’s a coincidence that the same aide has been the source of many disparaging comments about a mixed-race member of the Royal family too.

When I first read the conversation, a couple of days or so ago, it was a real, virtual facepalm moment; virtual in that I wear reading glasses, and then I was wondering if this wasn’t the same person making the unpleasant comments about a Royal’s child. Those Royals involved have been consistently trolled over this issue, in particular by that odious piece of human garbage Piers Morgan, but this conversation shows that this sort of overt racism is something that needs to be addressed and those responsible forced to confront what they’re saying.

Many folk think my name is French.  Its actually Cornish

Well, there is the Breton connection between the two.

The sheer entitlement that is demonstrated by reaching out and moving her hair, uninvited, is breathtaking. But, then again, maybe it isn’t – and that is even more concerning.

EDIT: And imagine the repercussions if Ms Fulani had reached out and touched Hussey’s hair, uninvited. Her feet wouldn’t have touched the ground on the way to the exit and her ejection would have been excused as a ‘gross breach of protocol’ or something similar.