Asked a related question of a colleague today over lunch, after she’d said something about going to visit family in Eritrea. Long answer/conversation involving north London, Ethiopia and Eritrea (language, religions, script, cycling culture, director of WHO, war her accountant father fought in for six years), and the fact that as her passport is Swedish despite being brought up here from the age of five, she’s applying to stay and has done the citizenship test.

Subtly* different though, you established they had an interesting story and asked a follow up question(s). Whereas this line of questioning was clearly going nowhere except an ‘ahh haa, you don’t belong here do you’.

*as subtle as a half brick through a window

I’m not surprised that you’re unsurprised.

Interesting though that Lady Susan Hussey’s father in law was colonial administrator in East and West Africa, .As educator and who has written several books on his experiences there.

So from that we can expect family photos and interest in family history of that country.

wouldn’t you think 😕

Africa isn’t a country. Tunis to Cape Town is about the same distance (and far more countries in the way) than Vancouver to Lima.

Lots of differing views on the hair touching, the vast amount I agree with. An invasion of personal space, rude, humiliating and just plain wrong on many levels, yes, yes, yes. A form of physical abuse, in this context not for me but the laws the law and I’m no legal mastermind. We all have different scales of unacceptable behaviour. Would be a boring world if we all thought the same.
Threads like this are great for seeing different views and opposing opinions on potentially challenging subjects. Keep the chats going good people.

Always impressive that people who have had the benefit of a top drawer education can’t inquire about a person’s heritage in a more articulate and sensitive way.

Can’t polish a turd I guess.

Is anybody actually surprised by this? It’s completely wrong but utterly unsurprising unfortunately. Old privileged lady is racist shocker!

I get “where you from, no really from” asked pretty regularly and I’m a white British person living in Britain, just a different bit to where I was born and lived for the first 20 years of my life.

I don’t get offended by it 🤷‍♂️

^^ I’m guessing they mean what region in the country or which town?

It’s just not the same situation.

freeagent
Free Member

Maybe all this gets us a step closer to knowing who it was who was concerned about the colour of Harry and Megan’s baby…?

Aye, there’s definitely only one racist in the royal household and she is definitely a complete anomaly and definitely not at all representative of the culture and values of the institution so it must have been her 😉

I lie about my origins because I was born in Dewsbury.

“Dews Don’t Count”?

I get “where you from, no really from” asked pretty regularly and I’m a white British person living in Britain, just a different bit to where I was born and lived for the first 20 years of my life.

I don’t get offended by it 🤷‍♂️

Possibly because

I’m a white British person living in Britain,

It is a different country, but still part of the UK.

I get “where you from, no really from” asked pretty regularly and I’m a white British person living in Britain, just a different bit to where I was born and lived for the first 20 years of my life.

I don’t get offended by it 🤷‍♂️

So why don’t you tell them the first time they ask?

Ngozi Fulani didn’t apparently have a problem doing so when the bedchamber lady asked her.

I think our pasts are a major part of who we are and not being allowed to be asked about them seems a bit sad to me.

no one is saying that at all.  The point is when the answer was Hackney to the second time of asking then any further probing is not acceptable

Threads like this are great for seeing different views and opposing opinions on potentially challenging subjects. Keep the chats going good people.

Thought this many times about threads on here. I too not seen the transcript before. Disappointing that someone in such a position and privileged background would be so crass.

didnthurt
Full Member
I think our pasts are a major part of who we are and not being allowed to be asked about them seems a bit sad to me.

I actually totally agree, it’s an important part of all of us but none of us should be asked to justify the answer, repeatedly.

The charity boss has said she is proud of her African heritage but she is obviously British and told the Lady so. The Lady concerned simply didn’t want to hear that part I suppose.

I think our pasts are a major part of who we are and not being allowed to be asked about them seems a bit sad to me.

You do realise that Ngozi Fulani’s past doesn’t extend to before she was born don’t you?

Perhaps I should carry my DNA results around with me.  Bore the pants off them.  Like most Brits ( anglo saxon 🙂 ) my recent DNA markers shows my ancestors were mainly danes, germans and french.  Long ago markers are shared with the Sami people.  clearly a true brit!

Why doesn’t it? I have ancestry from England, Ireland and Scotland as does a lot of British people. My surname also has historical meaning.

It’s all good.

But that transcript is pretty damning of someone pushing to get the answer that she had already made her mind up on.

I like being a mongrel Brit, it’s what makes me truly British. Same for the English language, more words borrowed from other languages the merrier.

But that transcript is pretty damning

Well that’s the whole point isn’t it? It was a hostile interrogation based on a person’s appearance.

Disappointing that someone in such a position and privileged background would be so crass.

That’s WHY she was so crass.
Cloistered, comfortable upbringing, unable to understand what a life outside absolute privilege looks like.

If you ever watch any of those sort of “rich kids go skint” or “CEO on the shop floor” type programmes, anything that puts a rich , privileged type into a “common” environment, they don’t have a clue. They don’t even know such a world exists, they are unable to comprehend a world where people don’t have staff or any money worries whatsoever.

A lot of MPs are also like that – the abhorrent JRM springs to mind as a good example. It comes as a genuine surprise to these people that the average person on the street can’t just reposition their shares, liquidate a few assets, ask Nanny to sort the kids out or rearrange that week’s Fortnums delivery…

I have a non-English name. I hated being singled out as a child (it wasn’t cool living in RAF territory as a German and bullying was rife) and those questions always used to completely do my head in.

Although I have chilled out (now schoolyard violence is less of an issue) sometimes I don’t want to explain my entire ancestry to strangers. So if I answer Bradford – where I was born – to the ‘where are you from’ question I expect that to be respected. Anyone following up from there can, frankly, do one.

I sometimes wonder whether the structure of English society is based on trying to other people by any means and as much as possible.

didnthurt
Full Member

I think our pasts are a major part of who we are and not being allowed to be asked about them seems a bit sad to me.

You’re totally missing the point. This isn’t about “asking about your past”, this is about not accepting the answer when a black person says they’re british.

You can ask about someone’s family background, etc- but you’ve got to use a little tact and read the room a bit. But that’s absolutely not what was happening here, she wasn’t taking an innocent interest in a person’s family history and just wording it badly. Don’t let anyone pretend otherwise when they do this.

It never generally occurs to me to enquire about anyone’s country of origin, unless they have an unusual accent, and that includes regional accents, but unless there’s an opportunity during a conversation to bring the subject up, I don’t think it’s really a cool thing to do.

I work with quite a few people who are clearly of Central European origin, mostly Polish, but I think we’ve had some Romanian workers as well. They’re often chatting away to each other and I’m often curious about whereabouts their home country is, but I can’t bring myself to ask, it just doesn’t seem polite somehow.

This was interesting timing, as yesterday I was working on developing a hospital simulation exercise with an Australian Indigenous person. When our new intake of registrars arrive (from various parts of the world) in the new year one of the things we do is train them in “the way we do things here.” A really good way of developing rapport with an Indigenous patient is to ask them “What is your country?” It’s considered polite because it means much more than “Where were you born” and is more a question about kin and ancestry on both sides of the family and shows that you see them as an individual. The answer is rarely straightforward.

Personally, i’m fascinated by people’s heritage, but to immediately ask questions based on appearance without additional context is exasperatingly lazy and arrogant.

My Polish colleague quite likes talking about his country of birth and culture . He did say that being asked “how he was” by people he didn’t know very well was considered rude in Poland. And apparently us Brits do this quite flippantly according to him.

Śmigus-Dyngus anyone?

https://culture.pl/en/article/smigus-dyngus-polands-national-water-fight-day

As for kids, they will find the smallest difference in other kids in order to bully them if they feel like it. Vicious buggers… Most of them thankfully do seem to grow out of it though.

But as I’ve already said, the transcript is pretty damning of someone trying to get the answer that they already have made their mind up on. Which is obviously not really on.

I’m often curious about whereabouts their home country is, but I can’t bring myself to ask, it just doesn’t seem polite somehow.

How terribly British!

It’s the first thing I would ask! I find people’s backgrounds fascinating. Especially if I can learn more about the politics and current affairs of their country. Plus other culture aspects such food, religion, etc.

It all makes a tedious manual job more interesting and one of the many advantages of a multicultural society. I don’t recall anyone ever appearing uncomfortable being asked about their culture, far from it.

Obviously I don’t use Gestapo style interrogation like bedchamber Hussey.

“where you from, no really from”

I believe the actual answer is , A pond of chemical sludge, somewhere in the great rift valley.

“how he was” by people he didn’t know very well was considered rude in Poland. And apparently us Brits do this quite flippantly according to him.

When i first moved to Oz i noticed people don’t answer the question. I think in Britain there’s a “How are you?” “I’m fine*, how are you?” interaction. Here it’s often “How are you?” “How are you?” where neither party answers… i find that weird.

*regardless of how you actually are as it would be rude to be honest of course.

Though actually I will ask “what’s brought you here” of someone with an obviously distant accent. I mean why not? Makes for a more interesting Uber ride for all concerned.)

Watch out the way you phrase the question as it may be interpreted as they got here illegally.

Like my colleague who kept questioning me about my being here. Passive so and so. Even when I told him plainly I am legally entitled to compete with him to get his job. He kept asking why I should be here. Then I just said something he didn’t like to hear that I am a legal economy migrant and I can do a better job than him. I am here to get “rich”! He got annoyed but stopped dead when I told him my father probably protected his ancestral interests. Then I asked him why his ancestors come to this country to seek shelter and protection? Why didn’t they fight like my simpleton father? (when Australian F1-11 landed in Borneo en route to OZ, only my father was allowed to check the plane because of his background)

You’re totally missing the point. This isn’t about “asking about your past”, this is about not accepting the answer when a black person says they’re british.

100% this.

It’s easy just to see a slightly foolish/naive old-dear, who asked what she thought was a relatively straightforward question, and responded poorly when challenged on it by somebody a great deal less foolish and naive than her – and somebody not willing to just let it slide (and nor should she).

But reading Lady Hussey’s CV I’m afraid that she personifies what’s wrong with the institution of the monarchy/royal family/upper class in the UK, and it’s hard to muster any sympathy when her lived-experience is juxtaposed with most peoples – oh and her daughter has now just married a Baron, and become a chambermaid (or whatever) to Camilla. I’m generally pretty ambivalent to the royal family, but this kind of thing has me eyeing my guillotine

Well that’s the whole point isn’t it? It was a hostile interrogation based on a person’s appearance.

You seem very clued up on what constitutes racism Ernie, so maybe you can help define this question.

If a woman’s refuge that was dedicated only to white women, would that be considered racist ?.

It was a complete set up…..the woman was wearing traditional African dress and seemingly was packing a device to record the conversation….An absolute non story. She was looking for an opportunity for some publicity.

mefty has already tried the “she was dressed provocatively therefore she was asking for it” line of trolling, maybe you could come up with something original?

They’re often chatting away to each other and I’m often curious about whereabouts their home country is, but I can’t bring myself to ask, it just doesn’t seem polite somehow.

That’s a shame.
I used to work with a fair few Polish and Romanian guys.
None of them were offended when I asked where they were from and had some really interesting chats with a few of the Polish guys about what life was like when it was a communist country.
Some were to young to remember so were interested on my take on it as I’d been there before it changed.

Got really friendly with a Romanian lad that was from the mountains and had a real love of the outdoors and used to love talking about the time he got to spend going back there.
Some of the photos he showed me looked like it’d be an brilliant place to ride.

It was a complete set up…..the woman was wearing traditional African dress and seemingly was packing a device to record the conversation….An absolute non story. She was looking for an opportunity for some publicity.

I can’t believe I’m getting sucked into this, but…

Firstly, the lady in question is to the left of Queenie C in this picture, with her hand on another person’s shoulder. She looks to be wearing a brown top. I’m not sure that classed as ‘traditional African dress”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63822940

Secondly, from where have you deduced that she “seemingly was packing a device to record the conversation”?

Back under the bridge for you, sunshine.

tjagain

that is assault in UK law

So do you not need an element of violence to commit assault then?

Secondly, from where have you deduced that she “seemingly was packing a device to record the conversation”?

Apparently, Farage on GB News last night.

I get asked where I’m from occasionally, if people can’t figure my accent out. Telling them I’m half Cumbrian, half Geordie, and I’ve lived in Leeds for 20 years doesn’t really clarify anything…

So do you not need an element of violence to commit assault then?

nope

either a fear that violence may be done ie if someone is shouting at you they are going to kill you – thats assault without any touching.  Or touching without consent – thats assault.

Most people confuse assault with assault occasioning actual bodily harm