When was the "us and them" split made?

The good news is that all this will finally sort out the enormous London vs everywhere else gap. Boom times ahead for Manchester, Bristol, Glasgow etc.

Really? If london sneezes then the shires will have snot dribbling down their faces.
The stamp duty receipts from London ar greater than Scotland and Wales combined, the rest of the country needs the capital to thrive (unfortunately that means housing demand) because if it doesn’t we are all the mire.
Also the centres of those lesser cities also have their housing pressures and high prices. It’s actually the grim towns mentioned earlier that need a bit of HPI as that shows wages and jobs are creating a demand.
Do you really want rock bottom house prices because there are no jobs and wages to prop them up?

They all seem to want to start on rung 3 of the ladder now, i bought and did up twice before reaching the point where all the young ones feel they should start!!

As a nurse earing £20 000 pa 20 years ago I could afford a £47000 flat. My salary is now £30 000 and the flat is worth £200 000+ and thus I couldn’t buy it now. As a nurse with one wage there is almost nothing bar ex council flats in dodgy areas I could buy in Edinburgh

IMO this happened in two main stages – early 70s there was a huge house price boom – my parents house quadrupled in 4 years. Again the the 90s the same happened.

there is simply almost no houses in the many cities affordable to anyone on average wages.

We are keeping our house in the UK because it is a good investment for our kids .

if we sold it , we would be left with more than 300k and I know that we would spend it on crap things we dont need and be left with nothing in 10 or 15 years time .

we thought about selling and buying a smaller property mortgage free but we dont want the hastle of selling right now . We might still do in a year time .

smiththemainman – Member
They all seem to want to start on rung 3 of the ladder now, i bought and did up twice before reaching the point where all the young ones feel they should start!!

So whats your evidence of that?
In between 2 people working full time living with 2-3hr commutes etc. people should also be building their houese 😉

Need to put rent freeze/cap in place and then keep rent prices the same for 20 years. That will halt the buy to let investors and bring prices down to what they should be. People who can’t get a mortgage still have to pay the same amount to rent so can never save to try and get a mortgage.

Can’t see prices getting down to sensible levels without something drastic like a rent cap.

I’d be going much further any new builds must have a percentage that are local low earner only, percentage shared ownership etc. Then some new areas that are restricted more.

Low interest rates for the next few years combined with increasing inflation, suppressed wages particularly public sector aren’t helping those doing essential roles. Ageing population with gold-plated pensions are looking for high yields and will continue to invest in property. Since 2008, the biggest growth in jobs has been in the South East and it’s unlikely to change, so property demand stays high. Government needs to change their social housing policy to make it attractive to institutional investors, remove the ‘for life’ tenancies on council houses and stop selling them.

As a nurse with one wage there is almost nothing bar ex council flats in dodgy areas I could buy in Edinburgh

Most dodgy areas have decent bits to them, even if just a street or two. Perfectly good housing can often be found here on a budget if people were just a bit more realistic.

Since 2008, the biggest growth in jobs has been in the South East and it’s unlikely to change, so property demand stays high.

So how do you explain falling prices in Prime Central London (-12%YOY), 45% fall in transactions, Foxtons shares on the floor and an exodus of 30 somethings… property demand is not price inelastic – when prices get to the level of unaffordability that London’s at, people leave – whether to home counties, rest of UK or emigration – I know people who’ve done all of these things in recent years…

Most dodgy areas have decent bits to them, even if just a street or two.

And the best bit is if you live in a tiny oasis in the middle of a —king —t hole, you get easy access to —t schools and all those tasks infrequent to other people become second nature: dealing with insurance companies re break-ins, car crime; first name terms with the desk Sargent when describing muggers and gaining a high level of knowledge about the ineffectualness of bike security systems.

Ace.

Over the last 10 years or so, when I’ve spoken to people in the building trade (through MTB, usually) I’ve asked about whether we should consider buying a new build (perhaps one they are or have worked on).

Without exception the answer is “No – they are utter s—“.

Apparently housing built for Housing Associations are only “Mostly s—“.

I’m just going to put this out there as food for thought for those with more than one property/those who think we don’t have a problem and no-one’s really impacted by unaffordable housing…

https://www.ft.com/content/d85a3696-f2bb-11e6-95ee-f14e55513608 (Google “More UK households fall below minimum income level”

Nearly a third of people in the UK live in a household where there is not enough money for adequate food, clothing and housing and the basics of a social life, up from a quarter at the start of the financial crisis, according to new research.

Same story in the Guardian but I put up the FT version to show this isn’t some lefty heart-bleeding story…
More people in poverty

I’d be going much further any new builds must have a percentage that are local low earner only, percentage shared ownership etc. Then some new areas that are restricted more

that already happens – unless the council lets a developer off the hook, any development over (from memory) 6 homes must be at least 25 or 33% (depending on area) ‘affordable’ – that is to say, shared ownership or rented through a local housing charity thinger. My street (built 2 years ago) has 17 houses, and 5 of them fit in that category.

Can’t see prices getting down to sensible levels without something drastic like a rent cap.

whilst a rent cap would undoubtably supress purchase prices, the side effects are generally untenable – essentially with no return on investment in a rental property, landlords are incentivised to have nothing but the bare minimum, and slowly the houses decend into slums. An exception to this appears to be Germany, where there are rent controls, but its all decided by a complicated equation involving the area, square footage, property features (number of sinks, floor types, etc etc). Even then, the price goes up in line with inflation.

Rents have (compared to buying) remained remarkably static – they appear broadly in line with inflation, which suggests its not overly expensive to rent compared to purchasing

Rents have (compared to buying) remained remarkably static

Wages have remained remarkably static, too.

KM 79 find me a property in edinburgh under £100 000 as that is all I could afford as a nurse

So how do you explain falling prices in Prime Central London

whats that got to do with real people? those properties are bought by city big shots, high net worth individuals who don’t post on MTB forums and overseas investors.
‘real’ people buy £200-£650k flats and houses in the less posh bits of zones 2-3

TJ- I agree with you in principal but there properties available within a couple of miles of Edinburgh city centre for less than £100k.

1 bed <£100k Edinburgh

Admittedly it’s Trainspotting land…. 🙂

Allow interest rates to normalise, let the housing market correct to sensible levels – accepting the collateral damage – and you have you an answer.

Alternatively fear the collateral dmamage and continue to artificially support current house prices. And you lose fewer votes.

This free market/capitalism thingy is really odd isn’t it?

This free market/capitalism thingy is really odd isn’t it?

It’s about getting elected…

gobuchal / kmn I had a look and there are a few but not very many and IIRC 3x salary is the usual max is it not – so on my salary 90 000 would be my max mortgage. Newly qualified nurse £20 000.

There are 49 flats for sale in Edinburgh for £100k or lower on rightmove.co.uk.

Widen this to Edinburgh plus 3 miles and there are a lot more.

so on my salary 90 000 would be my max mortgage

£82k?

gobuchul – Member
so on my salary 90 000 would be my max mortgage
£82k?

Are we rejoicing that this is the best thing available for a nurse? Nice isn’t it, remember every £1k your house goes up it’s £1k you would have to find starting now, that and it’s another £100 of deposit you need to find

Is OK for a welder? An administrator? A bus driver? What’s being a nurse got do do with it?

Me & Mrs, both 27 years old, combined earn slightly over the “couple average” £60k figure. We are both quite good at saving, having taken advantage of our very gracious parents hospitality until quite recently, so we have a nice lump sum in our ISA’s – combined around £30-35k saved. I save roughly £450 a month, but could stretch more if I curbed my lifestyle.

Issue is we rent and work in central London. I haven’t a clue what to do with the money and coke and hookers gets brought up a lot as an option.

Suggestions welcome, but I’m not sold on the idea of buying somewhere cheap that I don’t want to live (Dagenham, anyone?!), have a longer commute, shite quality of living all just to say “im on the ladder”

Are we rejoicing that this is the best thing available for a nurse?

No not at all. As I wrote earlier I agree in principal with the point TJ is making. Just trolling really. 🙂

However, £20k is also not a “typical” nurses salary. It’s a starting salary. The “time served” and established nurses I know earn between £30 – £50k. Bang on 20% for your pension and the wages don’t seem that bad.

The salaries of nurses are not the major problem with retention and recruitment in the NHS.

Or for anyone really, that kind of is the point, reckon it will last 25 years it takes somebody to pay it off?

Sad thing is high house prices don’t really benefit many people (other than estate agents and older people that own their house but then most don’t know what to do with the money – how many Honda Jazzes can you buy)

If I didn’t spend £x a month on my mortgage and could buy the same house for 25% of the price with a 25% of the amount of mortgage I would have the extra 75% free to do what I want with for 25 years.

established nurses I know earn between £30 – £50k.

Nurses on about £40,000? Common for established nurses? You really sure?

These established nurses – do they make up any significant % of the nursing population?

I’m a bit shocked as a partner of a NHS specialist that is reasonably established, in a cohort that is in highish demand – she don’t get a basic anywhere near £40,000.

In London, I reckon anyone currently in their 20s is in a pickle.

No, someone in their 20s has a career of opportunities to get out or get ahead somehow or other. It’s the people in their 40s, still renting, with next to no savings, pensions, or prospects who are going to be paying the price for the rest of their lives.

Nurses on about £40,000? Common for established nurses? You really sure?

I have no idea. I am talking about middle aged, 20+ years experience in some kind of supervisory role, that I have known.

she don’t get a basic anywhere near £40,000.

Where did I state “basic”? Talking about earnings.

AFAIK it is possible to earn £100k as a nurse. Not sure if there are more than a handful that do?

whats that got to do with real people? those properties are bought by city big shots, high net worth individuals who don’t post on MTB forums and overseas investors.

Stamp Duty is a major problem at the high value end, sales over £2 million have really dried up. Building a basement is stamp duty free and makes sense when property is valued at £1,000 per sq ft or more.

Gobuchul – the salary scales are published and no nurse earns £50 000 pa bar a very few senior managers who really are no longer nurses nor is the pension contribution from the employer worth anything like as much as you think.

starting money for a band 8 is under 40 000 IIRC – and that will only be a handful of people in a hospital – and they don’t do unsocial hours so basic is what they get

Band 7 ( charge nurse) starts on £31 000 up to £41 000 and again they don’t do much unsocial hours so that is what they get.

Most of us are band 5 £21 000 – £28 000. plus around 10% in unsocial hours for most of us

You really think this is well paid?

£100 000 as a nurse is simply not possible.

Gaining an exclusive or supplemental income through private renting should never have been a viable option, having a roof over ones head is a basic right and should not be subject to unchecked “market forces” that have been in place over the last ~30 years and lead to the mess we face today.

Should the quality of life be heavily influenced by the fortunes or otherwise of my previous family generations, as regards how many homes they own, leaving a lot more disposal income for other things such as luxury goods?

Should homes be effectively owned by the state, you mortgage-lease them for the lifetime of you and your partner, at which point they return to the state?

Most of us are band 5 £21 000 – £28 000. plus around 10% in unsocial hours for most of us

You really think this is well paid?

£100 000 as a nurse is simply not possible.

That fits well with the average figure of £23.5K. Is it well paid? It is compared to someone on minimum wage and isn’t compared with someone on £70K.

In an ideal world (my ideal world) peoples salaries would be far closer together with rewards for people who put more effort in (everyone can put more effort in but not everyone can do the same jobs)
Anyway, back from my dreamland…

Looking at the NHS Nurse wage bands it is technically possible to earn £98K but guessing that is never achieved.

banging 30k earnings, no loans etc, 20k deposit into HSBC’s online calculator suggests they’ll lend you £179k giving a total of £199k. On a nurses salary. That’d probably get you quite a nice flat near edinborough, repayments around £600 pcm

Wouldn’t even buy the basic flat I live in now and no way – 6 times earnings? – whats that interest only ? that repayment is only double what my £45000 mortgage is

Wouldn’t even buy the basic flat I live in now and no way – 6 times earnings? – whats that interest only ? that repayment is only double what my £45000 mortgage is

a (very) quick hunt for 90% mortgages suggested a 2% interest rate (don’t know how realistic that is). 35 year term (ftb average age is ~30, average retirement age is ~67), repayments are £600 pcm.

it might not be able to buy your flat, because you are a lucky baby boomer, who gets nice cheap property and a decent, cheap pension.

Meh..you could get THIS property for a mere £12k near me…

DrP

banging 30k earnings, no loans etc, 20k deposit into HSBC’s online calculator suggests they’ll lend you £179k giving a total of £199k. On a nurses salary. That’d probably get you quite a nice flat near edinborough, repayments around £600 pcm

The lenders don’t learn a thing do they. Why would they give a £180K mortgage to someone on £30K per year? What do they think will happen if the interest rate goes up to 6% (or whatever is too high to pay for the person on £30K) and the value of the house drops to under £160K ?

It was only 3 years ago I struggled to get a remortgage on my own house. 3 times salary and a 50% mortgage. Looks like they have slipped and got greedy again.