When to cut your losses with a car?

My 2015 Passat has broken again this time with some sort of fuel pressure issue and a loud noise from the pump in the tank. No local VW garage can fit me in until 6th January, and I’ll be looking at another potential big bill.

I’ve had it just under two years after spending £10,500 on buying it, and in that time it’s cost me £1,000 for failed rear calipers and discs/pads as a result, £660 for the heater core to be replaced, and it’s now due a new timing belt which will be another £500 or so and the clutch/flywheel is getting rattly as hell so that will likely need done eventually so there’s another £1,000 or so.

It has 131k miles on it and WBAC will give me £3500 for it on a good day.

I’m fearful that it’s getting close to needing as much spent on keeping it running as it’s worth and they aren’t the most reliable so a single big repair bill would mean I’d be better off scrapping it. I still owe about £2800 on it from a bank loan.

At what point do you cut your losses and shift it off onto someone else?

Do you have a local trusted garage? Fuel pump shouldn’t be that much.

That’s still a decent motor in my book. My newest motors is from 2009 probably worth 2.5k tops.
Better the devil you know in my view

Great timing with the thread. I have just managed to get my Mercedes home so without wishing to hijack your thread, I will add a second similar scenario.

2007 E Class convertible bought last December for £6K.
£250 for passenger door lock (broken) and getting the central locking to release and lots of time and effort
£200 – ICE/Sat nav screen has gone blank but I haven’t replaced that.
£1,250 for DPF, EGr sensor, broken bit or wiring, plus fitting plus warnings*
?? Tonight. I stopped at the traffic lights and the dashboard lit up with airbag, ABS, Wheel Sensor, Run Flat and every other kind of warning. That looks pretty I thought but unfortunately when I tried to put the car in gear, it wouldn’t move out of neutral. I turned the car off, put out the warning triangle and logged onto STW. By the time the forum had loaded, the car was ready to reboot so I put the key back in , started up and parked it on the drive.

A) Do I flush £6K away and sell for scrap?
B) Do I pay a garage £1,000-£0,000 to try and fix it?
C) Do I grab a soldering iron, lift the carpets and have a go?

*The warnings were that the roof must have leaked at some point because all the wiring under the carpet and the connectors are corroded and need replacing. This was an unknown amount of money because of the time and effort involved but would definitely be a 4 figure sum.

This is a very tricky question but I agree with Lesgrandpotato – better the devil you know.

Every penny you have spent so far has made this car better. If you sell and buy another who knows what will be wrong with the ‘new’ car’?

Better the devil you know is fine, but when I’ve worked it out I’ve spent (averaged across the time I’ve owned it including taking off what I’d get if I sold it today) a staggering £460 a month on the vehicle so far including purchase cost and repairs. I know that will go down over time the longer I own it, but not if it keeps needing repairs and when it’s off the road for weeks waiting for a repair I have to hire a car for work because I rely on it for site visits.

for that much a month I could have leased a brand new car with a warranty….

So you’re looking at just over £3k spend on repairs (including the proposed timing belt and clutch) in two years on a what is now 9 year old car.

Doesn’t sound too shocking to me.

Is it on it’s original timing belt still or has it had one before?

What is your budget if you do kick it into touch?

Aside from the heater core, those sound like normal maintenance bills for older cars. Clutches need replacing, braking systems need work from time to time.

Timing belts always need doing.

I spanner on our cars, but in answer to the question, it’s partly feeling and partly, will the replacement have a chance of throwing bigger age/mileage model specific bills?

How much will it actually cost to move to a perceived more reliable car?

I should add I recently scrapped a 2007 Civic Type R – I’d had it 4 years and there was always something that kept going. Never major though, a few hundred at a time, but every couple of months. Rust killed it in the end and it wasn’t worth opening that can of worms.

As my other car is a 22yr old MG TF (and that costs!), I decided to go for a much newer car on PCP. Now the ‘daily’ is a 2020 Abarth 595 that’s costing me £160/month.

I’m not an expert

I’d take it to a garage you trust. Pay for them to go over it and give an opinion.

But my instinct is that selling is giving some one else all your hard work and parts

@wca. I’d be pulling the codes on a reader to see if there is a common theme. If not then after a warning of wet underseat computers I’d be running for the hills if not a decent Indy who has sorted one before.

@wca. I’d be pulling the codes on a reader to see if there is a common theme.

I noticed, just before I pulled upatthe lights was the steering wheel controls had stopped working – or at least the radio volume and mute buttons. I figure I will trace those and see what they uncover but suspect they will track to one source.
All the tyre sensor and ABS warnings are probably the run to another stack of sensors on one of the wheels. that is probably another common source.

It can’t be that hard to work out where the wires for Tyre pressure, Stability control and ABS all meet , can it?

A) Do I flush £6K away and sell for scrap?
B) Do I pay a garage £1,000-£0,000 to try and fix it?
C) Do I grab a soldering iron, lift the carpets and have a go?

D) You could try grafting a conservatory on top if the roof is leaking.

@wca that’s how I’d think about it. I’d be looking for an Indy who’s seen it before tho if I could.
wheel speed sensor logic seems sound.

To my mind, the time to get rid is when you feel compelled to start a forum thread asking whether you should get rid.

The amount you spend fixing a car you already know is going to be less than buying a car you don’t know.

I’ve been having the same thoughts about my daily driver too, but not due to a big bill.  It’s more the fact that it’s done a lot of miles, 213k, which for an 11 year old 1.2 12v Fabia is a lot.  The only failure I’ve had was the alternator at 207k and even then it didn’t leave me stranded but things are mounting up.  The subframe mounts are definitely worn, the gearchange is getting vague (hard to go into gear at times, probably a clutch-related issue), the engine has a small weepy oil leak on the timing chain cover and it’s just generally starting to feel it’s age.  I don’t have a regular job currently so I’d only have a budget of £5-6k to find a replacement and at that range I’d be buying something with 100k on the clock and most likely a few problems of it’s own so for the time being I’m keeping the Fabia and will slowly work through it’s issues.  It does help it just passed it’s MOT so I’ve got 12 months grace before things get serious but I like the car, know it’s full history as I’ve owned it from new and it’s been a brilliantly (but boring) dependable workhorse so I’m wary to get rid of it and inherit a load of trouble with it’s replacement.

Corroded Merc = bin.

You’ll be there for year chasing earth faults and the like. Not cheap and lots of hassle.

The VW?

There is a chunk of “consumables” and a few busted items.

Brakes – ho hum, brakes are consumables.
Timing belt – should have known when you bought it, consumable.
Heater core – not unexpected.
Rattly clutch – what does a VW Pro say?
Pump – again what does the pro say?

Deffo split the pump & clutch from the other item to do your maths. I’m a tight arse and I budget a grand a year to fix mechanical gremlins (I do a chunk myself), but consumables aren’t included if that makes sense. The grand covers depreciation, it’s an arbitrary number but a bad year might cost 2k, but if I’ve had it for 4 years I’m 2k up.

My cars are always >220k miles & >11 years old before I class them as uneconomical to repair.

At what point do you cut your losses and shift it off onto someone else?

When you feel it’s giving you stress than peace of mind.

IMO sell it while you still can before it become too expensive to repair and buy a “simple” car.

Better the devil you know.  Usually.

Otherwise ask someone who owns a Nissan 🙂

The bigger questions around whether to ditch the Passat are

– how much are willing/able to pay for a replacement.  If it’s £25k+ then you can make a significant enough step up (and to a relatively low mile – say under 40 or 50k miles) car. But if it’s £10-15k you’re just buying a different and unknown set of problems.

I’ve always taken a ‘better the devil you know’ approach, (except for 1 hatefully shite Zafira which really was throwing good money after bad).   I’ve usually run cars until **** and scrap, then bought again. I hate the £££ spend on cars, but the repairs have usually been less than the cost of buying  a decent new to me car).

I went through the process of nearly buying a new new car a few weeks ago. Thinking the do it before the big bills started to really come (Ford Kuga diesel, 54k miles). But with new tyres and brakes all around this year already, I concluded the extra spend (£35k+) for the new motor just wasn’t worth the improvement in the car, and I can pay for plenty of clutches, exhausts etc and still have £30k left in the bank ! (Not to mention the new car = 5 years of extra road tax stiffing).

Now the ‘daily’ is a 2020 Abarth 595 that’s costing me £160/month.

And worth every penny for the amount of shits’n’giggles you get from driving a 595! Only thing better is an Abarth 695 Competizione,and they’re pretty rare, but with beautiful trim and 180 ponies! *chef’s kiss*

How long is a piece of string?

I’ve got rid mainly as I was losing trust in it’s reliability or the repairs were becoming properly silly. Most of our cars have been 120-180k and 10-12+ years old when we got rid.

I sold the V70 while it still had some value, when faced with a £4k estimate on a 150k/10 year old car which also was not LEZ and I had two at uni in LEZ zones…but I still wish I had been able to keep it.

I also sold our 12yr/145k Ibiza 1.4 16v estate a year ago – still see it buzzing around the local area. But, that again has a long list of issues including the catalytic rusting through and it being a one piece/£1200 part, suspension issues and CV joints etc etc. The chap who bought it was a home mechanic and welder and it never goes more than about 6 miles from home – so he was happy with a £1k project car, and still is.

Seems like the general consensus is to keep for now at least. I need to get it fixed up even if I was gonna sell it so let’s see what the repair costs me and if the specialist thinks it’s likely to have damaged anything else (there seems to be a known issue with fuel pumps on these where it fills the entire fuel system with metal filings meaning the entire system needs replaced at several thousand pounds) and I’ll revisit the thought process in the new year.

A van is sounding might tempting instead though I must say…

I’d ditch it asap – VW famed reliability/build quality isn’t really a thing anymore as you are finding out. I’d look at Toyota/Kia/Hyundai estates instead.

There does seem a big difference between what you paid for it two years ago and WBAC are offering now – have you put lots of miles on it?

Worth checking what the going rate is on AutoTrader, trade and private sellers, compared to WBAC offer. Also see if Motorway suggests a higher price.

Could consider fixing, selling and replacing with something else if you’ve lost faith in the vehicle. Selling privately isn’t so hard, should find buyers at that kind of age/price.

Buy a pump from autodoc and either fit it yourself or get a mobile mechanic to do it.

Then sell it , people often underestimate the cost of timing belt and dmf , clutch replacement parts and labour.

Pump should be doable on the drive, some require a vag tool to release, but in reality it’s a hammer and flat bar and 300 quid

Yes there’s a significant difference in what I paid vs what it’s worth now. I bought it at the height of high prices in 2022 because I had to replace a written off car, and it was on 106,000 miles then. Now it’s on 131,000 so not mega miles added.

@singletrackmind do you know if they need coded into the vehicle? It seems doable otherwise but that put me off doing a lot of jobs on this car

What do folks think the going price is for a new clutch + flywheel, and timing belt.

In my head, new clutch + DMF is going to be around £1k, and a new timing belt £500-600 sort of mark.  Worse at the main stealers of course.

To the OP, for brakes – to do all 4 corners of discs + pads, Ford wanted about £1100 and even regular garages wanted £900+ on my Kuga. No callipers replaced. So I can see why you paid £1k for rear calipers + discs + pads.  (I bought some EBC discs and pads and discs them myself for about £430 in parts and £10 on a can of magic spray that made bastidtight bolts undo with no drama, + probably another £10 on brake cleaner spray.

I very much doubt it. The in tank pumps tend to be high volume , low pressure units . These feed either an engine driven lvhp unit up front or a secondary lvhp , these might need coding .

Looking online it’s a drop in single unit with the level sensor built in.

Allow 2 hours , get some blue roll or loads of rags , latex gloves and watch a couple of YouTube videos but sometimes these are less than helpful

this is always a tough one. Cars are expensive and require money spending on them at some point. Buying anything old is a lottery and you need to be willing to play the game.

the merc if 100% in the bin for me. Anything where by its corrosion of wiring then your going to be chasing your tail for ages (potentially). No way youll every get to the bottom of it without a lot of time.

vw, well. As others have said all consumables. weighing it up i would be thinking whats the condition (any rust i wouldn’t plough a lot of money into it). whast the suspension, exhaust, turbo like? all good potentially keep. but your at the age where by your going to get perished bushes etc so if your not willing to commit then think about that.

personally it depends if you like the car. If its nice spend the money. if your not bothered get shut and get something you do like. ive seen people with much newer cars with much higher bills and always think about that when spending money.

none of the problems you have are related to each other, they’re all separate things, made by separate companies – so there’s no pattern of failure that suggests something else will go wrong next.

I wouldn’t be using a VW garage to do any of this stuff though – its an old car, I’d just be using a local backstreet garage and saving a bunch.

£10k is an awkward amount to spend on a car – its far enough out of bangernomics that anything that goes wrong needs to be fixed, but far enough out of warranty that you’ll be paying for each thing that goes wrong.

@airvent – You’re probably nowhere near Leeds, but just incase you are, theres a great independent VW specialist called smashing (they originally started as a breakers). I’ve used them for years with several cars and they’ve been brilliant.

Smashing VW

As many have said above, the repairs are typical of a car of that age/mileage.  You might only better your situation with another vehicle if you want bangeromics (sub £2k) or went nearly new (£20k+).  In the bracket your current car is in, you’ll always need to factor in a running repair bill.  Whenever I buy a car, I factor in 10% or the purchase price for additional repairs in the first year or two, as the previous owner is likely to have let things slip abit before trading in.

Due to a variety of factors in the UK, people don’t look after cars that well or run them down as their value drops.  It’s better to view a car as a service cost.  A £10k car might need £1k – £2k of running costs per year, a bangeromics car cost at £2k only lasting 2 years or a new/nearly new car loosing £1.5k in value per year (plus interest lost it in being tied up in a depreciating asset).  There isn’t really an option that will cost significantly less in the long run, unless you are lucky.

I used to be in the bangeromics camp (most of my cars have cost less than £1k!), these days I run a nicer car but keep it 7-10 years and maintain well to keep it running like new.  This might cost more a year in repairs but I get to drive something that works 100% and is easy to sell privately for a higher price, as it’s best condition car available.

VAG cars are definitely built to last 10-15 years and then fall apart in my experience.

Get rid.

This year our Fiesta (that’s worth about £500 if the buyer doesn’t get closer than about 10ft) has had

Cambelt + pump £650

One new front shock strut £300

4 new tyres £240

New exhaust £125*

+ The usual servicing

It’s still a bargain even though a years tax and a tank of fuel probably double it’s value!

In your case it’s a bit painful but I’d get the cambelt and clutch done and the fuel lift pump fixed / replaced then fingers crossed that might be it for another 100,000miles.

*yep, the whole thing from the catalyst back, fully fitted, I love cheap pattern parts and backstreet mechanics

I will be selling my car, or potentially scrapping it shortly. It’s a 23 year old Nissan Primera. Been very reliable, has a slight bit of ‘treated’ rust on one wheel arch, but looks great, runs great and everything works. It’s not worth more than a grand at best.  I’m actually getting a van, so it has to go.  I’ll MOT it, and if nothing major is needed I’ll pop it up for sale for someone to get at least another year’s cheap motoring rather than scrap it.  If there comes up a big job, then it’s not worth repairing, and it may be best to sell as MOT failure or just send to scrap. You just don’t know with such an old car.

A 2015 Passat is quite new and I wouldn’t hesitate on spending on wear and tear parts.

I’ll make sure I have a repairs pot for the van though, as I doubt it will be as reliable as our two Nissans have been. We’ve a 2012 Qashqai that’s mint, and the only jobs have been a wheel bearing (under warranty), gearbox/engine lower support needing replacing (20 minute job) and recently a rubber CV boot was needed.

There isn’t really an option that will cost significantly less in the long run, unless you are lucky.

I disagree, an older, cheaper car will always work out cheaper.

Servicing in theory should cost the same at 20 years as it does when new, but in reality most cars probably go through the spectrum from dealer serviced, to indie, to backstreet, to DIY. So running costs are cheaper in the real world.

“Maintenance” as in non-service items, but you expect them to wear out anyway, creeps up as time goes on, But most cars will get through several cambelts, clutches, exhausts, suspension bushes, etc in their life. So whether it’s 7 or 17 years old you probably have the same overall risk of a mid-sized bill cropping up.

Eventually something will kill it if it reaches a natural end, usually rust or some major engine component wearing out.  But at that point it’s not the current owner that’s paid for that failure it’s the depreciation paid for by the previous owner(s).  If it’s a £1000 car then you only lose £1000 whether the cost to fix it was £1000 or £10,000.

Or it meets an unnatural end, getting stolen or crashed,  Which is far more expensive on a new car than on an old one.

Our Fiesta has objectively had a bad year, but compared to a brand new car it’s less than 2 months hire / finance, or similar less than a couple of months repayments on a 5-yr old car (although at least in that scenario you’d own it after a few more years).  The other 10 months of the year is effectively free!  We’ve owned it from basically new (6 months) and with a handful of ‘expensive’ years like this one as the exceptions it’s only getting cheaper with time.

+1 for get rid and get Kia / Hyundai

I had a 2007 Skoda Octavia VRS estate that started costing lots of money a few years ago. I got fed up of taking it to the garage.

I listed it for sale on ebay with honest description, it got a decent price, and I bought a 2016 Kia 2 years ago, not had any problems since.

Christ this one hits close to home, I too own a 2015 Passat, had it for 5-ish years now, paid similar as OP, had 132k miles and now at 180k-ish.

MOT with Service + Cambelt and Water pump cost me £900ish this month, led me to think what else its cost me during my ownership and I too had a seized rear calliper, air conditioning pump needed replacing and had to do the dual mass fly wheel and clutch due to failure!

For me, now I’ve done the big ticket stuff, she’s getting run into the ground, handy as I cracked the rear bumper reversing recently taking more value off of the resale…

What do folks think the going price is for a new clutch + flywheel, and timing belt.

In my head, new clutch + DMF is going to be around £1k, and a new timing belt £500-600 sort of mark

Hmm.  Well in MY head (not always reliable), a new clutch + DMF was around £1k…. about 10 years ago. At least, for a diesel Mondeo.

So good luck….