What's your favourite conspiracy theory?

elfinsafety – just for the record, what do you think caused the twin towers to collapse?

elfinsafety – just for the record, what do you think caused the twin towers to collapse?

It isn’t relavent, he is just trolling as usuual.

elfinsafety – just for the record, what do you think caused the twin towers to collapse?

I don’t know, you know why?

No definitive evidence has been presented which proves or disproves any official or unofficial claims. I do believe, that from the various theories and ideas presented, that it is entirely possible that scenarios other than the Official Line could equally have taken place.

Therefore, unlike some on here, I’m keeping an open mind. Could well be that the Official Line is in fact the truth. Then again, there are other explanations that are equally plausible.

Toys19; not even going to bother with you mate, cos instead of actually presenting any evidence of what you claim, you’re just diverting to views of others which again are only theories, not truth. Again, you believe what you want to believe, up to you, innit?

And leave others to have an open mind. Just cos I disagree with you doesn’t mean I’m wrong, or you’re wrong, or anything. None of us have any real proof of what actually happened to cause those buildings to collapse, so there’s little point in arguing, as we none of us have any real ‘evidence’ to back any of our views up. and as I’ve aid; I’m not actually presenting a theory, just suggesting it might be a good idea to keep an open mind, until such time as there is actually some real, hard evidence.

Toys, this is me:

‘You know what, might be a good idea to be objective and open minded about stuff’

This is you:

‘I am right and you are wrong because I say so!’

Sigh… Do you see how you might be coming across mate? Seriously?

Enough already.

freemasons organised the whole thing, i’m right, you know i am, no point arguing with me.

EDIT – calling toys ‘mate’… well you might want to see how that makes your posts come across elfin, very confrontational.

just saying like, and i’m right you know i am, no point arguing with me.

There is actually real hard evidence, read the NIST report, properly.
I am happy that you wont bother with me, it shows that you actually havent got the backing or the backbone to support any of the trite rubbish you have trotted out.

Toys, this is me:

‘You know what, might be a good idea to be objective and open minded about stuff’

This is you:

‘I am right and you are wrong because I say so!’

Sigh… Do you see how you might be coming across mate? Seriously?

Enough already.

Elfin this is weak. I think you will find you are the one who is closed minded, you havent bothered to consider the reports and evidence, and yet you keep saying that there is no evidence, if you opened your mind and actually read the reports you will find plenty of evidence.

Oh and taking advice on how I might be coming across from you is laughable, do try harder.

None of us have any real proof of what actually happened to cause those buildings to collapse

I think I saw some footage once of some planes flying into them. Just sayin’.

Therefore, unlike some on here, I’m keeping an open mind. Could well be that the Official Line is in fact the truth. Then again, there are other explanations that are equally plausible.

I’m interested in these other explanations as to why the twin towers collapsed which are “equally plausible” to the version the official reports suggest. Which explanations are these? Are they really “equally plausible”? Just because more than one theory exists does not mean we should give all theories equal credence.

One that got me thinking recently concerns the death of AC/DC original vocalist Bon Scott.He famously choked on his vomit after a typically big night out.Its well known that Bon kept diaries with lyrics/song ideas in.His girlfriend at the time claims following his death ” two large men” came to their flat and went through his belongings,during which these diaries went AWOL.The band went on to replace Bon with Geordie screamer Brian Johnson,who admits to being no great lyricist himself,and brought out Back In Black in double quick time.The theory goes,the band used those diaries and the lyrics to form the basis of Back In Black and subsequent albums.

No definitive evidence has been presented which proves or disproves any official or unofficial claims.

No, actually loads of evidence has been presented which supports the “official claim” but, thanks to your “open mind”, you refuse to accept it.

Which brings us back to the question: what possible evidence could be offered to you that would convince you one way or the other?

Oh come on …lets all go for a beer and forget all this nonsense

No, actually loads of evidence has been presented which supports the “official claim” but, thanks to your “open mind”, you refuse to accept it.

I think you’ll find his mind is so open he didnt bother to even look at any of the official evidence. He is just repeating crap from ae911truth and prison planet.

Toys et al; I said Enough Already.

If you are so convinced and sure about stuff, why you argue about it?

That’s the bit I find funny. If those who won’t blindly accept the Official Line are such crankpots, why do you spend so much time and energy trying to appear more righteous and clever than them? If, like, y’know, you’re so clever and right?

Here’s something to keep you busy for the rest of the day:

Provide me with actual evidence that the towers collapsed purely as a result of the planes crashing into them (IE, something no-one has actually proven yet…).

Of you go.

No, actually loads of evidence theories have been presented which supports the “official claim”

FTFY…

(And for a bonus point, can you tell me what happened to the metal which was removed from the scene before any independent bodies could forensically examine it?)

Oh and RealBoy; keep up mate. We did that ages ago… 😉

And just one more thing, and I am genuinely interested:

Why is the idea that the explanation may lie somewhere outside of the Official Line so unpalatable to you?

Elf – its nothing to do with it being the “official line” Its to do with it being the one that is consistently in line with the evidence

Elf, you might have missed this – I asked:

I’m interested in these other explanations as to why the twin towers collapsed which are “equally plausible” to the version the official reports suggest. Which explanations are these? Are they really “equally plausible”? Just because more than one theory exists does not mean we should give all theories equal credence.

Why is the idea that the explanation may lie somewhere outside of the Official Line so unpalatable to you?

Because the official line coincides with the best available evidence and relies on logic and fact. So far all the other theories have presented zero evidence. (edit damn TJ said it beofre me)

RE the “missing steel” if you had bothered to read the evidence isntead of repeating your received wisdom found on ae911truth then you would know that the FEMA investigation collected tons of steel for examination, and conclusively proved that it was subjected to temps high enough to weaken it leading to the collapse.

Provide me with actual evidence that the towers collapsed purely as a result of the planes crashing into them (IE, something no-one has actually proven yet…).

What evidence would you accept?

I mean there is a nice paper from the University of Edinburgh (those well known US government stooges), written by an expert at the uni’s BRE Centre for Fire Safety Engineering and published in Fire Safety Journal, which uses a finite element model to demonstrate how the fires alone could have caused the buildings to collapse:

A.S., Usmani, Y. C. Chung, J. L. Torero (2003). “How did the WTC towers collapse: a new theory.” (pdf) Fire Safety Journal, Volume 38, Issue 6.

But somehow I doubt that will help.

Expert materials and engineering analysis isn’t enough. Fire crew testimony isn’t enough. Independent eye witness accounts aren’t enough. So what is?

What could we possibly offer that would convince you? Nothing.
Because your mind is “open”. 🙄

Why is the idea that the explanation may lie somewhere outside of the Official Line so unpalatable to you?

Why is the idea that the official line is correct so unpalatable to you Elf? Issues with authority perhaps? 😉

Toys et al; I said Enough Already.

awww he’s told you off now, better do what he says or you might get a smacked botty

There’s nothing wrong with having an open mind and I don’t believe Elf is being a nutter/troll for suggesting that there are alternative explanations in this case.

I feel a bit bad for starting this thread, given the ill-will that’s starting to appear…

😳

Go on then elf…….

Provide me with actual evidence that the towers collapsed purely as a result of the planes crashing into them were blown up (IE, something no-one has actually proven yet…).

awww he’s told you off now, better do what he says or you might get a smacked botty

nah its just a desparate attmept to make me go away because I’m making life difficult for him.

Why is the idea that the explanation may lie somewhere outside of the Official Line so unpalatable to you?

Probably because the “Official Line” so to speak is usually the most logically self consistent. Everything else I’ve heard just seems like the paranoid delusions of an idiot.

For any of us to prove something, considering none of us (I’m speculating here a little..) know anything useful to this discussion about planes, buildings, explosives, demolition, shadow politics, terrorism, or have any first hand experience or knowledge about what happened and why, to you, who also does not know anything useful relating to this discussion about planes, buildings, explosives, demolition, shadow politics, terrorism, or have any first hand experience or knowledge about what happened and why, is futile and ultimately pointless. It’s more likely that you will nihilate the argument before it gets anywhere, screaming “reality is subjective, facts are inscrutable, facts are inscrutable!!”, then you to accept that some things are exactly what they seem to be.

People are wrong. Whilst it is kind of irritating, there is sometimes nothing you can do about it.

If we’re getting serious, though, I do have a question:

Is there ANY way that the Diana thing could be a conspiracy?

My thoughts are that side-swiping a big car with a little car in a funny shaped tunnel without knowing whether or not the passengers are wearing seat belts is a bit too chaotic/idiotic (even for the royals) to have credence as a conspiracy…

dont feel bad camo 🙂 this always happens when elfin gets involved in a thread. did you study Modern history at University of Leeds?

Elfin, give it a rest.

You’re talking about the biggest terrorist attack in history, an act which shocked the world but, more pertinently to the “theories” side of things, created one hell of a logistical headache. There’s over a million tons of debris, dust, nasty chemicals (asbestos, concrete dust etc), bodies in one of the most densely packed cities on earth. Thousands of personnel from dozens of agencies sifting through it in first a rescue operation, then a clean up operation.

Initially, no-one had a clue how or why it happened, there were feelings of shock, anger, desperate personal tragedy and complete helplessness. There was no contingency plan for anything like this.

And you reckon every bit of wreckage should have been forensically analysed? Under the circumstances, I’d say they did bloody well with what they did manage to get. More than enough evidence to show that when you smash 200 tons of plane and fuel into a skyscraper at 400mph, it burns for a while then falls down…

dont feel bad camo this always happens when elfin gets involved in a thread. did you study Modern history at University of Leeds?

Why the question? I’m intrigued.

From Llanfihangel-Y-Creuddyn?

DONT QUESTION ME BOY! I ASK THE QUESTIONS HERE

From Llanfihangel-Y-Creuddyn?

DONT QUESTION ME BOY! I ASK THE QUESTIONS HERE

There’s every possibility that my cover may be blown here. 😯

But if faith in camo16 exists in the absence of proof, will I disappear if I say ‘yes’?

Sherlock Consequence, eh?

** searches through collection of fake passports and decides to be Senõr Francisco de Rojas Zorrilla until the heat dies down **

awww he’s told you off now, better do what he says or you might get a smacked botty

Oh look another incredibly insightful and intelligent response from Phil. Surprise surprise. Got a lolcat for us Phil? 🙄

What evidence would you accept?

Er, y’know, actual evidence, rather than theories? That kind of thing?

You know like in court;

‘Well we think this happened’

‘Do you have any evidence that it happened?’

‘No, but we think it did’.

😕 See the problem here?

RE the “missing steel” if you had bothered to read the evidence isntead of repeating your received wisdom found on ae911truth then you would know that the FEMA investigation collected tons of steel for examination, and conclusively proved that it was subjected to temps high enough to weaken it leading to the collapse.

And if you din’t have your knickers in such a twist, then you might also have noticed that of all the steel collected from the site, only 0.5% of it was ever tested for evidence that the steel had been compromised due to the fire. FEMA themselves stated that there was only ever ‘limited metallurgical examination’ of the material collected.

Nought point five percent.

That does not constitute proof at all, merely that of all the steel collected, only a tiny amount was tested.

By a US government agency.

And not by any other independent body.

All it does actually prove is that parts of the building’s steel structure collapsed as a result of fire. Not all of it.

And it doesn’t actually prove that this heat damage was as a result of fire caused by jet fuel, either.

Yadda yadda yadda.

Elfin, give it a rest.

Why? Because I might happen to think differently to you?

Probably because the “Official Line” so to speak is usually the most logically self consistent. Everything else I’ve heard just seems like the paranoid delusions of an idiot.

See, there you go, attempting to denigrate anyone who might offer up an alternative explanation. Cos, like, that’s grown up and mature…

The official Line is full of holes and woefully lacking in much actual ‘proof’. Hence why it is routinely questioned by thousands of engineers, scientists, architects etc. Not ‘unpatriotic unAmerican commie bastards’, but ordinary americans seeking the truth about those terrible events. A truth it seems sadly they be forever denied.

A.S., Usmani, Y. C. Chung, J. L. Torero (2003). “How did the WTC towers collapse: a new theory.”

Ahem…. 😉

this always happens when elfin gets involved in a thread

What, people get all twitchy and uncomfortable because their views and onions are challenged?

Diddums…

isn’t it about time for the Edinburgh defence?

😆

mate, got a random building for us?

i dont pretend to be insightful or intelligent

why, are you planning pre-loading it with explosives that won’t detonate even when a 747 with a couple of full fuel tanks hits it?
please note – this building can only be blown up by god fearing white folks – anything else would be lies and government conspiracy

See, there you go, attempting to denigrate anyone who might offer up an alternative explanation. Cos, like, that’s grown up and mature…

No it’s not, you’re pulling a straw man. I said all the alternate theories I have heard sound stupid. Not all the alternate theories that have existed, do exist, and will ever exist. Unless you’d like to suggest a theory that makes more sense then the current one, pointing out a few meaningless things that you claim disrepute something means nothing, unless you just want a non-theory, that everyone believes they fell down, but nobody cares why?

BTW, roughly I believe that about 200,000 tons of steel was collected. 0.5% of that is 1000. 1000 tons.

only a tiny amount was tested.

Besides, there’s no such thing as truth, reality is a lie.

One of the more interesting conspiracy theories to me is the planet x one where basically governments are covering up the fact that a giant planet from the edge of our solarsystem is about to crash into the earth killing everyone.

null

Er, y’know, actual evidence, rather than theories? That kind of thing?

WHAT “ACTUAL EVIDENCE”?

The “theories” are based on the best evidence that could be gathered.

They are “theories”, and will remain so, because sadly Captain Invincible was unavailable to report back with an eyewitness account from inside the tower as it collapsed. And even if he did I doubt you’d believe it.

What made the towers fall down instead of up?
The official line is gravity, but that’s just a “theory” 🙄

Let’s try a slightly different angle:

Imagine you were an office worker in the towers before they collapsed and one day a mysterious bloke comes into your office with a massive Stihl Saw, cuts most of the way through the structural supports then leaves. Would you not maybe mention that to someone?

Imagine you worked for the demolition company that was asked to place demolition charges around an occupied skyscraper. In secret. Would you say nothing?

Imagine you worked building security at the towers. Would you not mention the several tons of explosives placed structurally around the central supports on several floors?

Imagine you are fire crew in the tower. Would you not radio back that you’d found a crap load of high explosive wrapped around the support pillars?

Imagine you were one of fire crew on the ground with first-hand expertise in tall building fires and structural collapse. You watch the towers fall and 300 of your mates get killed. Would you say nothing about the “controlled charges” and instead help cover it up by fabricating eyewitness reports of the building bulging prior to collapse?

not me BBSB 😉 i is too intelligent and insightful to do such a thing.

xxx

I think 0.5% of the steel is quite a lot, (if that is true as most of what you have posted so far has proven to be bollocks) given that the towers had approx 200k metric tons of steel in them then they tested 1000 tons of steel, thats a shed load.

edit, damn been asleep , realman got there ages ago.

One of the more interesting conspiracy theories to me is the planet x one where basically governments are covering up the fact that a giant planet from the edge of our solarsystem is about to crash into the earth killing everyone.

Sounded interesting, gave up at this point though..

The idea was first put forward in 1995 by Nancy Lieder, founder of the website ZetaTalk. Lieder describes herself as a contactee with the ability to receive messages from extra-terrestrials from the Zeta Reticuli star system through an implant in her brain.

🙄

Sounded interesting, gave up at this point though..

The idea was first put forward in 1995 by Nancy Lieder, founder of the website ZetaTalk. Lieder describes herself as a contactee with the ability to receive messages from extra-terrestrials from the Zeta Reticuli star system through an implant in her brain.

i got a bit further into than you then, i gave on it when the astronomers pointed out that you would be able to see it by now without using telescopes (if it was going to hit in 2012) and the only counter arguement that the theorists could make was that it was hiding behind the sun… 😀

Surely they could do better then that? Have they never heard of a stealth planet? Duh..