What’s everyones opinion on Dwayne Chambers running in a British vest again?

I have some sympathy with the ‘lifetime ban’ brigade. If nothing else it simplifies things. If an athlete is caught taking anything banned, under any circumstances, ban them.

I don’t think for a minute it will prevent more than a handful of athletes over a 2yr ban, simply because they don’t expect to get caught.

Christie claimed that the banned substance Nandralone was in some supplement he took, and that he was not aware of it’s presence. Loads of athletes were caught out like this. Christie was cleared of deliberately or knowingly taking a banned substance by the UK athletics board. As for the Psuedephedrine; loads of athletes took this, as it was present in dozens of hayfever medicines and other over the counter stuff.

The issue is, wether or not an athlete has deliberately and knowingly taken a performance enhancing substance. Christie was never found guilty of this. Neither was Lance…

Chambers knew full well what he was doing. And therefore should be hung by the neck until he be dead banned for life.

His presence in athletics tarnishes the sport’s image, and devalues it’s participants.

No worse than that other 400m running women who couldnt remember to go for drugs tests.

why do people think that people who do sport for a living should have to live to higher moral standards than the rest of society?

It isn’t about moral standards, it’s about what the nature of the enterprise is. For some reason, there is this event, called the Running Really Fast Race. It is considered important, and people who win it are regarded as big shots. The Race has a rule, which says that you aren’t allowed to race in it if you have been quaffing Go Faster Juice. The rule is there because it is part of the nature of the race that the people running it are not using Go Faster Juice. If anyone involved is, then the whole thing is buggered. The rule is not there for any reason particularly (the race is afterall more exciting by its own minimal standards of excitement if the runners go faster, more records get broken, more trainers get sold etc etc). The rule is there because it is fundamental to the nature of the race.

The criminal law in human societies doesn’t define the very point and nature of the society. It mediates between people who have competing objectives, and just bans behaviour that none of us can live with. If the purpose of human society was to ensure that you lived without ever getting a criminal conviction then the idea of such convictions being spent would be a bit wierd. But the purpose of human society is rather more nuanced than that, so we accept that you can break the law without making the entire society that created the law look like a farce which has to be annulled. Races are not the same.

I’m not sure if that’s right, but it seems plausible. 🙂

Christie may have been cleared by UKA but he wasn’t by IAAF. He received exactly the same sanction as Chambers. From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linford_Christie:

Christie tested positive for the stimulant Pseudoephedrine at the 1988 Seoul Olympics, but he escaped sanction after the International Olympic Committee’s disciplinary committee voted by a margin of 11 to 10. [13] It was reported that one of the judging panel was asleep when the vote was taken.[14] Reference to this is made in a television advert Christie made for Egg online banking in Autumn 1998.

At the 1994 European championships staged in Helsinki, where British team captain Christie won his third European 100m title, he was caught up in a doping controversy after Solomon Wariso, a 400m runner making his international championship debut, tested positive for the stimulant epherdrine. Wariso revealed that he had used an over-the-counter pick-you-up called “Up Your Gas”, which Christie had bought at a Florida pharmacy.[15]

In 1999, Christie was found guilty of using the performance enhancing drug Nandrolone following a doping test after an indoor meet in Germany. He was found to have more than 100 times normal levels of the metabolites of nandrolone in his urine. Various explanations were offered to explain the results, including eating avocado, or using nutritional supplements.[16][17][18]

The IAAF rejected that explanation and gave Christie a two-year ban from athletics, despite UK Athletics feeling that there was “reasonable doubt whether the drug had been taken deliberately”, a decision which ignored the usual drug testing principle of “strict liability”.[19]

Christie has always denied any wrong doing. “If I took drugs there had to be a reason to take drugs. I had pretty much retired from the sport.” Furthermore, he denied that his physique was gained through drug use and promoted an anti-steroid approach: “It does not follow that all athletes who are big take drugs… Only by testing all athletes will the sport be kept clean of drugs.”[9]

Following the ban, the British Olympic Association announced that Christie would not be accredited for any future Olympic Games, in accordance with their regulations.

Christie claimed that the banned substance Nandralone was in some supplement he took, and that he was not aware of it’s presence. Loads of athletes were caught out like this. Christie was cleared of deliberately or knowingly taking a banned substance by the UK athletics board. As for the Psuedephedrine; loads of athletes took this, as it was present in dozens of hayfever medicines and other over the counter stuff.

The issue is, wether or not an athlete has deliberately and knowingly taken a performance enhancing substance. Christie was never found guilty of this. Neither was Lance…

Read my previous post, ignorance is no defence. The policy is that athletes take responsibility for everything they ingest or inject. Claiming afterwards that they didnt know is fine. With hindsight maybe Chambers has marginally more integrity by getting caught then taking the punishment. Christie retired when he was caught thereby evading the public humiliation that would a negative drugs test would bring and the tarnishing of a fantastic career and competitive record.
Christie was a great athlete however dont try to re-write history because he’s a local lad!

I have some sympathy with the ‘lifetime ban’ brigade. If nothing else it simplifies things. If an athlete is caught taking anything banned, under any circumstances, ban them.

Playing devils avocado… There was a lot of support on here a few weeks back for Alain Baxter; everyone seemed fairly happy that he had unknowingly taken a banned substance and had paid the price by being stripped of his medal. Would it have been appropriate for him to have been banned for life?

[EDIT: In saying ‘everyone’ I mean that the general sentiment of those who participated in the thread was that Baxter was a good guy who had been unlucky]

My point is, that Christie, and loads of other athletes at the time, were being caught out because Nandralone was present in what they thought were ‘clean’ supplements. All professional athletes use such things, and some sail very close to the wind, to get an ‘edge’ on their rival competitors. Medical bods have shown that athletes often coon’t have been aware of taking Nandralone, as it was not listed in the ingredients of the supplements (naughty supplement manufacturers?). As for Pseudoephedrine; it has actually been removed from many athletics authorities’ banned lists.

Ohuruogu missed 3 tests, and served her ban. She never tested positive before, during the time in which she missed those tests, or since. Rio Ferdinand served a simliar ban for the same thing. He has also never tested positive.

My point is, that Christie, and loads of other athletes at the time, were being caught out because Nandralone was present in what they thought were ‘clean’ supplements. All professional athletes use such things, and some sail very close to the wind, to get an ‘edge’ on their rival competitors. Medical bods have shown that athletes often coon’t have been aware of taking Nandralone, as it was not listed in the ingredients of the supplements (naughty supplement manufacturers?). As for Pseudoephedrine; it has actually been removed from many athletics authorities’ banned lists.

Ohuruogu missed 3 tests, and served her ban. She never tested positive before, during the time in which she missed those tests, or since. Rio Ferdinand served a simliar ban for the same thing. He has also never tested positive.

You need to read the comments above. Just because you keep saying it doesnt make it so. Christie was caught and thats the end of the story, as inconvenient as you find it!
The fact that certain products are not now on the banned list is neither here nor there. He breached the rules as they stood at the time. He was also very well supported and advised. The “I didnt know” claim doesnt wash.
Not sure how you can be sure Ohuruogu didnt test positive if she didnt appear for testing, bit self fullfilling that one!
The rules state you must be available for testing at all time and you get 3 chances. These are professional athletes who need to adhere to the rules.

Not sure how you can be sure Ohuruogu didnt test positive if she didnt appear for testing, bit self fullfilling that one!

Because apparently, she tested negative for other tests performed around the same time. I’ve already mentioned this, but you’ve obviously failed to notice this point.

Christie; I’m not defending him. I’m merely pointing out that he made a mistake (as did Gred Rusedski), and suffered the consequences. With the Nandralone thing, many athletes were perhaps naive and careless, not deliberate cheats, like Chambers.

Anyway, bored now.

many athletes were perhaps naive and careless, not deliberate cheats, like Chambers.

This is the crux of your argument. You dislike Chambers so his cheating is cynical, deliberate and pre-meditated.
You have warm feelings towards Christie so by definition he made an innocent mistake.

“Naive and careless” my Ars* Christie was a savvy, experienced professional athlete! As usual you are “spinning”

With regard to Ohuruogu The other tests you elude to were not the official ones so they are not the same thing.

Anyway, bored now.

Argument’s over.

It’s Thatcher’s fault.

TBH Ohuruogu looks as thick as two short planks.

Look at footballers for example … when the testers phone to say they’re on the way the blokes taking drugs are sent home and removed from the playlists until the testers have finished.

Rot.

My apologies, you’re correct. After a bit of research it appears they just let them carry on playing.

Well, that’s only half as thick as you, Hora! 😉

Well, that’s only half as thick as you, Hora!

And at least her boobs are supposed to be there.