What happened to the mountain bike industry?

bearnecessities – Member
You would say that

😉

whens the film out 😯

We already have two different road disc standards (Flat Mount, anyone?).

Roadie standargeddeon ahoy.

disc brakes on road bikes is to road biking what 650B did to MTB’ing, Only the people on Forums give a shit, the other 97.5% of the population dont give a shit,

even now, I’m guessing the majority of sales are to established riders, road and mtb (once you take out kids’ bikes anyway).

I’m not a roadie, though I’ve done more of that type of miles this year than mtb. I’m sorted for road bikes though, and my only upcoming plans are for a FORK that’ll take a disc brake once the axle standards are sorted (if forks are still compatible with current tapered headtubes, that is – if not I’ll do without)

I’m not going to buy a mtb any time soon – not even a frame, which is what I’ve tended to do in the past. I’ve no idea what wheelsize, hub and BB standard, frame geometry, fork offset (FFS!), mech mount, …. will dominate in the next few years. You might say it shouldn’t matter to me and I should be happy with what I buy regardless of market trends, but then the logical extension of that is to question whether I need a new bike at all – they can’t have it both ways. Also, presumably there’s no second-hand “market” for my current 26er frame with 69 degree headangle, so I’ve been bitten there already as well. (You may be right about bike evolution leaving me and my local riding behind, too)

If I’m typical of the demographic (middle-aged whiny cockbags with disposable income?), then they’re **** and they’ll stay that way until they stop this shit

😯 why so much change ……………I think next years niche is 120mm to 130mm travel 29ers

MTB’ing has moved on over the past 10 – 15 years, to ride decent trails you have to be fortunate enough to live where there are decent trails.

Has somebody stolen them in the meantime?

If I’m typical of the demographic (middle-aged whiny cockbags with disposable income?), then they’re **** and they’ll stay that way until they stop this shit

This +1 Million

All the stupidity they’ve pulled over the last few years and continue to do so put me right off buying a new bike. Rode my MTB twice last year, my road bike almost daily!

Buy a “less evolved” bike.

Yes, too many niches aswell.

THey don’t even race anymore either?! They got rid of 4x and replaced it with Enduro – another time trial down a hill, where the riders dress like they should be riding a moto x bike, and do tricks off jumps like they should be on a BMX.

MTBing is **** if it carries on like this; it no longer knows what it is. Seven grand full sussers, various wheel sizes, front suspension, back suspension, suspension tuning, skills courses, test rides, upto 33 gears etc. etc.

Too much rubbish – people just need to start riding bikes again. Preferably single speeds or fat bikes.

Honestly, if what the mountain biking INDUSTRY is up to upsets you enough that you’d rather not go mountain biking, then I suspect you don’t really like mountain biking!

Anyone quit listening to music because they don’t like the music INDUSTRY?

The only problem with the OP’s assessment is that the evidence isn’t there. I think that mtb sales were starting to stagnate before all the stuff about wheel sizes really took off.. Perhaps the industry mucked about with wheel sizes because they were trying to stimulate a flatlining market.

I agree with the people saying road bikes last longer. My 2007 Bianchi Nirone is still going strong and I’ve only changed a few things (like saddle, stem, tyres and pedals) for personal choice/comfort.
But in that time I’ve had 4 MTBs and replaced loads of worn-out components.
My 8 year old road bike is all I need for the 1,500-2000 miles it does each year and all it’s really needed in that time is some tyres, tubes and a good clean/lube every so often. The 20 gears still work as good as when I first got them whereas my MTBs have gone from 18 to 9 to 10 speed and numerous mechs.

Road biking and commuting are also straight out the front door rather than a 30 – 60 minute drive for something fun and all I need is a helmet, pair of shorts, pair of shoes, a jersey, a bottle and a Twix so I can go from sofa to riding in under ten mins.

I don’t think MTBing is on the decline (just go to FOD car park at the weekend and compare it to 10 years ago), I just think people are starting to shop differently by using online stores and direct sales companies. And then moaning that the LBS won’t lend them a tool, fix a bike for biscuits or match the price CRC, Merlin, etc offer their mass bought or grey imports.

Tom KP.

It’s an image problem exacerbated by the rise of road cycling.

Mountain bikers = fat power rangers riding overgrown bmx bikes
Road bikers = toned Olympian shaved hunks

Mountain bikers = fat face, howies, fox
Road bikers = Rapha, Paul Smith, Gore

djglover – Member
It’s an image problem exacerbated by the rise of road cycling.

Mountain bikers = fat power rangers riding overgrown bmx bikes
Road bikers = toned Olympian shaved hunks

Mountain bikers = fat face, howies, fox
Road bikers = Rapha, Paul Smith, Gore

Partly this aswell.

Tell someone you just popped out for 80 miles on the road bike earlier, and they’ll be incredibly impressed and probably want to feel your toned glutes.

Tell them you rode the “red” route at llangdegla and nailed all the drop offs and didn’t put your foot down once; they’ll laugh you out the door.

Superb post OP!

Was thinking about this yesterday funnily enough. You’ve articulated some of my thoughts much better than I can, however.

I’m not against change but change for changes sake to simply relieve people of money is not what MTBing is about to me.

As an owner of two 26″ bikes I almost feel the industry is forcing me into a corner.

I think my mindset really hardened after spending a whole afternoon and evening browsing retrobike etc. for the first time recently.

I knew there was a sizable amount of people wanting to get back to the simpler (better? ? ) days of biking but the amount of people, ingenuity and passion people are putting into bikes that make my 2010 model fs look like something from the future was a real eye opener.

I perfectly content to run both bikes I own until I simply can no longer get the pasts for them.

I know I’m not alone in this but I am always on the look out for “obsolete” spares now, new or otherwise, just to store in the shed until needed. Some cracking deals to be had out there to the point where I’ve almost bought some complete bikes as they are so ridiculously cheap only because they have 26″ wheels! Madness, utter madness.

I’ve said this before on here, I ran Windows XP for ages after most before had gone onto Vista etc simply because it did everything I wanted it to. I fully intend doing the mountain bike equivalent.

3 wheel sizes, now + sizes, fatties, boost…… Just goes on and on.

Even my almost infinitely convertible Hope hubs can’t keep up now…

Anyway, back to looking for bargains on “obsolete” bike parts. 😉

And breath………..

I think these were the turning point….

Or maybe these

Surely this is the turning point?

Nah, the turning point is the headstock.
🙂

Not tapered, obviously.

Beaten too it,
Damn it!

£400 mountain bike is basically a BSO

Well…I guess the Pinnacle Ramin 1 is kinda bike shaped.

Ninfan, NO, i dont think they have been stolen, well not where i live anyhow but i cant speak for where you live?

My local trails are boring, they are pretty featureless and short. A drive to the Peaks on the other hand are challenging, difficult in fact and requires a certain ammount of skill to complete. Certain trail centres offer the kind of attraction that sees their car parks fairly busy,

Scotroutes, i could ride a boring bike on boring trails or i could try and continue to challenge myself, i’d struggle riding some of the places i ride though on a less evolved bike, which is kind of what i was getting at.

It’s great riding round on a Singlespeed bike, its about the most basic bike i have, more basic than my BMX but i’m not sure i’d complete the Mega Avalnche on it or the BMX, I couldnt really see it or my Orange hardtail lasting at Bike Park Wales or a fortnight in the Alps, So i built my MTB with what i would be riding in mind, A bit like my CX bike, i’m not riding it as it was intended so i put some road tyres on it as i’m riding on featureless tarmac that doesn’t require Knobbly tyres.

THey don’t even race anymore either?! They got rid of 4x and replaced it with Enduro – another time trial down a hill, where the riders dress like they should be riding a moto x bike, and do tricks off jumps like they should be on a BMX.

MTBing is **** if it carries on like this; it no longer knows what it is. Seven grand full sussers, various wheel sizes, front suspension, back suspension, suspension tuning, skills courses, test rides, upto 33 gears etc. etc.

Too much rubbish – people just need to start riding bikes again. Preferably single speeds or fat bikes.

Pfffffft. 33 gears? It’s all about the 11.

As Northwind alludes to, the MTB industry is NOT in distress. I’m working on some data round this as we speak, once its ready for publication, I’ll share links.

Bike and component brands are seeing an uplift in sales by both volume and revenues – several key drivers including a diagonal shift from road to MTB once at 2nd bike purchase stage, a maturing of the demographic and a different set of aspirations from riders.

There are a lot of underperforming bike shops with poor business models and bad retail sales skills. Resultantly they survive by selling more of what is “mainstream” at that time. Up to recently, that’s been road, but market trends further up the chain and internationally suggest the growth curve is levelling.

Sadly the stores doing badly, and reps that are doing badly, share bad news among themselves and consumers rather than focusing on growth. I’ve heard a rep from a distribution co go in a retailer and his opening gambit was “how are you guys hanging in there, trade is tough at the moment”. Who’s going to be confident to buy off him? He needs urgent retraining or sacking. Same for retailers undermining consumer confidence. Tell a good news story or quit.

Jaysus, I’m not reading all that! Executive Summary please…

Well I bought a new bike tail end of 2015 that didn’t arrive til end of November, my previous mtb being 5 years old and ex demo. Other than upgrading consumables when they wear out I can’t see me rushing to buy anything mtb related. I seem to be quite easy on parts, I’m only small and my components seem to last ages compared to my mates, I put this down to me being sub 8 stone and possibly ride style. Prices have gotten crazy which is off putting especially when coupled with ever changing standards. I only have boost on the rear with my bronson but not upfront wich caused me to hesitate and consider waiting, but my old bike needed the entire drive train replacing plus new tires, brake pads and more if I looked at it properly, poor thing had been abused and neglected, and I’m unlikely to change the wheels anyway, only the tires when needed. Tbh I can’t tell any difference between 26 and 27.5 and boost v non boost.p Unfortunately I can’t sell my old 26er as it has an undesirable wheel size and needs a lot of tlc so it’s sat taking up space in my garage, I may attempt to sell it for peanuts preferably to a kid. My bronson is too much bike for what is available on my doorstep, and the ‘mud shelf’ above the bottom bracket is being problematic but my cx is at times lacking so I have a yearning for a hard tail, however the constantly changing standards have me stalling, especially as the hts I like are at the 1-1.5k price point and you can get decent fs at that price point and I have two bikes that can ride the local stuff perfectly well one being over and the other under biked.

Long ramble cut short if my old bike didn’t need so much replacing I wouldn’t have bothered buying a new bike until the standards settle.

Downshep – ‘Golf is boring’.

Cheers. Will ride what I have…..

hellz85: Long ramble cut short if my old bike didn’t need so much replacing I wouldn’t have bothered buying a new bike until the standards settle.

Agree with your post but just quoted that bit above as I think it cuts to the chase pretty well.

Will bike standards ever settle? Probably not but I can actually deal with that.

Its the marked changes year on year that can render good kit “obsolete” in some eyes. Whether we agree with that or not, it will affect resale price.

Added to that it can render a good and recent frame into a perceived cul-de-sac. Tapered steerers etc etc.

Anyway, yep, agree with your post, just concerned about the speed of changing standards*** and the manufacturers motives behind it.

*** When exactly does a standard even apply anymore, seriously, whats the “standard” bottom bracket type, or even frame fitment for it. Ditto hubs, and a host of other things.

I think most MTB parts now can be put categories at best. Standards are almost becoming a thing of the past. I have practically every Hope hub adapter known to man laying around but that’s still irrelevant on newer frames. I dont mean thats Hopes fault by the way!

I’ve bought 2 new bikes in the last 2 1/2 years. One being a last run of 26″ bikes and something I’d wanted for a long time, the other a 29″ race bike I never knew I wanted.

At no point do I feel the bike industry has taken me for a ride (pun intended) or done me over. I can still get plenty of parts for the 26″ bike it will last me another couple of years easy.

Compared to 10-15 years ago bikes are so much better, I can have a long travel bike that comes in under 30lb and rides uphill well enough to take on big adventures, my light XC bike is actually tough enough to ride without flexing and bending all over the place thanks to things like thru axles.

Anyway, yep, agree with your post, just concerned about the speed of changing standards*** and the manufacturers motives behind it.

Leaked pics from some recent bike industry meetings

Mr Jive will be along shortly with a pic of a fox and Frank Bruno…

Lots of standards is a pain but not changing anything isn’t clever either

We are seeing a readjustment in cycling genre preference. The novelty has worn off MTB, and its decline from the mainstream is inevitable.

Road biking is fundamentally cooler than MTB. MTB arrived in the public consciousness briefly as an exciting novelty item. However, once you get over the stupid neon stuff and the “wow, he did a skid” factor, MTB is basically adult BMX* crossed with rambling**. In the past few decades, people have tried to make it look interesting to a lay audience. They have failed. No MTB discipline has proved capable of being televised in a faintly interesting way. Even Redbull Rampage, the stupidest and most extreme I’m A Celebrity, Get Me Out Of Here version of MTB is utterly, utterly boring. After going “wow, he did a skid no-handed superman seatgrap triple frontflip”, the average viewer waits another three minutes to see whether the guy with the brain damage and the facial tattoos will actually fall into the ravine and die, and then wanders off to play Angry Birds, because it is more interesting.

Meanwhile, to hear MTB-nerds chunter on the internet, you’d think that there was something exciting going on in the sport. Something interesting, controversial. Something worth getting all riled up about. Imagine the utter mystification of the casual reader when they come to understand that most of the chat is to do with a different wheel size becoming available, and a couple of minor modifications in axle standards. It must be like wandering into a model railway forum and wading through a years-long, passionate argument about whether O-gauge or OO-gauge tiny trains are more charismatic***.

As certifiable in-nerds, we are so busy spotting the trees of these tiny differences that we completely miss the wood of our own deep, epic, boringness.

Meanwhile, in what is hilariously described as the “real world”, normies are going to Evans, buying a cool road bike and some Chris Hoy branded merch, going out for long, fun, exciting road bike rides, joining the welcoming, friendly and fun road clubs by the thousand, logging trillions of fast, fun miles on Strava, then going home to watch the thrilling television coverage of their really exciting sport, which British people with side-burns and charisma and thighs are so amazing at.

TL; DR: MTB is lame, wheelsize is irrelevant, no wonder the normies ride road bikes.

🙂

* I am aware that adults do in fact also do BMX. Some even ride those little folding micro-scooters. They live with their mums.
** Really slow, wheezy, fat-person boxing day rambling, not cool old-guy in wooly hat hiking.
*** This is a trick question. Both are really lame.

P.S – No kittens were harmed in the posting of the above post.
P.P.S – Yes of course I ride MTB. I don’t even have a road bike ATM
P.P.P.S:

O gauge (rear), OO gauge (middle) and OOO gauge (front). But there is nothing for scale, so you still can’t tell how tiny they are. For all you know, the one at the front could be regular sized. You don’t even know.

🙂

🙂

“Bigdummy”, first off, that pic atop this page is fantastic, the attention to detail is amazing. I know little enough to know great attention to detail when I see it. In any passion, love or hobby.

mikewsmith

I’ve bought 2 new bikes in the last 2 1/2 years. One being a last run of 26″ bikes and something I’d wanted for a long time, the other a 29″ race bike I never knew I wanted.

Totally agree with you, buy what you want, need, or just lust after.

However, you bought a bike you never knew you wanted? Again, I get it. Try a demo bike, or a mates bike and it becomes more than a wish and more of a want.

If the “want” is totally, 100% based on the bike, its ride qualities, fit, riding style, heck, price. Its all good.

May I ask what made this bike a want from an unknown however? Honest question without any argumentative connotations, too old to mess around with “Im right, your wrong” online debates. I like to be proven wrong in my assumptions to be honest. As thats all they are, assumptions.

At no point do I feel the bike industry has taken me for a ride (pun intended) or done me over. I can still get plenty of parts for the 26″ bike it will last me another couple of years easy.

Typed a long meandering reply to that then thought more thoroughly about what you said.

You’ve never bought a part and felt underwhelmed, even slightly? Thought you could have achieved the same at little or zero expense? Never made a bike purchase (or not even bike related?) and thought, “wow, that’s it?”. “That’s what I spent that money on?”

The 26″ bike you can source parts for another year or two… Will you sell it, or retire it as its 3 or 4 years old, simply due to lack of parts rather than being an awful/ outmoded ride? Will the bike that replaces it be dictated by what is available to buy as much as what you like? You sourced an end of line bike, you obviously love it to have gone to the trouble, will bikes really be that much better a few years from now? Like you say in next quote, bikes are already pretty damned good.

Compared to 10-15 years ago bikes are so much better, I can have a long travel bike that comes in under 30lb and rides uphill well enough to take on big adventures, my light XC bike is actually tough enough to ride without flexing and bending all over the place thanks to things like thru axles.

The big adventures. You never thought they were possible 10 or so years ago? You never read ” A Bike Ride” for instance? As some drug fueled bloke once said, “it’s not about the bike”. Well, that much was true, the rider makes the adventure, Whether on a single speed pub bike or a £4K dream machine. Standards change, absolutely, whinging old farts like me even change eventually but the bike I rode back then might have been more suited to true “mend it anywhere” expedition adventures rather than less. Tech back then was much more basic, utilitarian… but a damned site easier to get repaired by a mechanic in the middle of nowhere with an allen key and a ring spanner. Just illustrating my point, not intending to belittle yours opinion. A hell of a lot will disagree with me totally in fact.

My 6 year old fs weights a tonne to be honest. Have to perch my butt on the nose of the saddle to keep it online on steep-ish climbs. That’s ok though as I knew that would be the case. I knew it was WELL on the wrong side of 30 Lb when I bought it s/hand too.

Thats still ok though, the negative was a positive to me. I never want a bike that makes either or both the ups or downs a simple point and click affair.

Anyway…Its all good.

My gripe is that when i can no longer source parts for this “old” bike it will likely hang on the shed wall as a reminder of the good rides/ times I had on it.

Well, else it gets robbed for parts… which mostly wont fit new frames.

Ride safe on the commute this morning or the fun time later, whichever connotation of bike you prefer or ride. 😀

that pic atop this page is fantastic

Great, isn’t it? I think he’s scaled the colour correctly, is part of it. Also, I’m 82% sure my dad’s set-up has the same engine shed.

🙂

May I ask what made this bike a want from an unknown however?

Just never thought I’d own and XC race bike, just was never my thing. Now it is

The big adventures. You never thought they were possible 10 or so years ago? Be honest, you never read ” A Bike Ride” for instance? Standards change, absolutely, whinging old farts like me change eventually, but apart from e-bikes (possibly….) the bike I rode back then might have been moresuited to true “mend it anywhere” expedition adventures. Tech back then was much more basic, utilitarian… but a damned site easier to get repaired by a mechanic in the middle of nowhere with an allen key and a ring spanner. Just illustrating my point, not intending to belittle yours opinion. A hell of a lot will disagree with me totally in fact.

I never said not possible, they were always possible, just now I can get the bike that loves the downs much further for less effort. Makes it more fun, more rewarding, being able to grab another peak on a loop or get to the end of a decent downhill with all your teeth and stop for the gate. Do stuff that used to be considered DH bike teritory on something that you can turn around and ride back up. Tech back then was old roadie cross over stuff. Stuff may have been more basic but utilitarian? I remember the days of exploding mech that would just crap themselves looking at a rock, I get much more life out of kit these days. As for fixing it it’s all about the same, just a collection of bolts and pins that can be adjusted and fixed on the trail.

BigDummy – Member

that pic atop this page is fantastic

Great, isn’t it? I think he’s scaled the colour correctly, is part of it. Also, I’m 82% sure my dad’s set-up has the same engine shed.

Only 82%, not good enough? lol

Yeah, fantastic detail. Must have taken an age.

Makes me humble the next time I moan about having to tart up a bit of chain suck!

mikewsmith: I never said not possible, they were always possible, just now I can get the bike that loves the downs much further for less effort. Makes it more fun, more rewarding, being able to grab another peak on a loop or get to the end of a decent downhill with all your teeth and stop for the gate. Do stuff that used to be considered DH bike teritory on something that you can turn around and ride back up. Tech back then was old roadie cross over stuff. Stuff may have been more basic but utilitarian? I remember the days of exploding mech that would just crap themselves looking at a rock, I get much more life out of kit these days. As for fixing it it’s all about the same, just a collection of bolts and pins that can be adjusted and fixed on the trail.

Mike, will come back on here later.

Really must get some close eye and you make some good points in the post.

Again, not trying to assert my opinion over yours. Its all subjective and Im glad I can still feel so impassioned about a hobby, any hobby actually. 😀

From the article: “back then, a roadie was a very different person to roadies now. They were old-school, they didn’t want to spend money.”

I remember a bikeshop in Croydon that used to surprise me with their sensible rates. It wasn’t asking a days salary etc for work down on your bike. It was asuccessful road shop that carried mtb’s as a sideline.

I must admit with the wheelsize forceable pushed ‘its driven by consumers’. No it wasn’t was it. But even a recent mag article argues this. I don’t remember anyone saying they felt 26″ wasn’t right on rides over the years. It made me personally doubt the value of spending alot of money on any future kit as it may be obsolete in How long? What next?

Has the OP returned yet?

I think most people seem to be missing the main reason for the popularity of road cycling versus MTB. It’s basically down to television coverage.

People see all the male and female heros in the Olympics, Tour de France, Tour of Britain etc, etc not to mention the triathlons as well where we also have World champions. Triathlons are a massive sport now and there is no real off-road equivalent.

They see that level of success and feel inspired to try and emulate it even at a very limited level. There is a massive amount of road cycling coverage in the UK and virtually no televised MTB racing.

Who in the general public even knows who Gee or Rachel Atherton are?

Has the OP returned yet?

And did we ever see his graph?