Well scotland didnt get independance, thread

I have a bike ride starting at 9.30. Enjoy the smugness factor of the referendum result THM, these small pleasures are obviously important to you. I’m sure I’ll enjoy my bike ride 🙂

how do we go forward with the movement from here

First sort out the basics like currency etc.
Sort out the Europe Question
Separate SNP party policies from what is being proposed
Don’t accuse everyone who voices an opinion against you as scaremongering or lying (especially if they are actually right)

Junky, margin is a different thing from swing required. The referendum rules were that the Yes side needed 50%+1% to win so that would mean a swing of >6% to change the result which is a massive swing in any modern vote. As ever understanding the facts is important when making a decision.

Whatever way you cut it it was a resounding democratic vote to stay in the UK.

small pleasures

It’s raining in Scotland today but I’m smiling, we’re not in the midst of a Yes induced economic apocalypse and when I renew my children’s passports next week they will be British ones with all the status and privilege that that confers.

of >6% to change the result which is a massive swing in any modern vote.

Its not a massive swing in a general election never mind a binary choice.

As ever understanding the facts is important when making a decision.

Not sure what your point is there

Whatever way you cut it it was a resounding democratic vote to stay in the UK.

I think the number of areas coupled with the vote % means it is undeniably true that it is a clear vote for NO. IMHO it is not a massive majority in a binary choice. I would suggest 2/3 voting one way is around the margin of massive support
Its a fairly mute point No won and , relatively, convincingly.
Thankfully it is large enough to not lead to it being questioned as to legitimacy [ either way the vote had gone]

J, I don’t agree with your analysis but agree with your conclusion:

Its a fairly mute point No won and , relatively, convincingly.
Thankfully it is large enough to not lead to it being questioned as to legitimacy

Well you have a long way to go. If it had been a constituency election for the UK parliament with 28/32 regions registering a vote against the nationalists it would have been a massive defeat for them. The country didn’t want it.

Fixed that for you. A pretty pointless analogy when talking about a referendum. Especially in a country that uses PR to vote for its parliament.

I spent £831 this morning on taking the first steps to a better life. Unfortunately that life will be away from Scotland. But hey ho, there are better places to live in the world than one governed by fear. It might not work out, but I’d rather regret something that I have done than something I haven’t.

zz, to serve it up another way for you 87.5% of the regions of Scotland voted No. Whatever way you view it, it’s a hammer blow for the Yes side considering they thought they would win.

Especially in a country that uses PR to vote for its parliament.

EDIT: I’m sure I recall having a first past the post vote for Scottish MPs in Westminster recently.

A second edit to add context & a third edit for grammar.

Perhaps we can have Salmond on loan to Wales to give Plaid a kick up the arse so we can avoid the likes of this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-29177799

I spent £831 this morning on taking the first steps to a better life.

Deposit on a 650B?

Thanks bg, you’ve summed up exactly what’s wrong with UK elections. 87.5% of the Scottish regions voted no. 55% of the Scottish voters voted no.

Which do you think is more representative?

not correct to talk about regions/areas voting one way or another. the use of that was down to the infrastructure of vote counting.

Deposit on a 650B?

Shame he won’t be using it to bring Scotland alive.

Which do you think is more representative?

It doesn’t really matter as the regions were just used to for administrative reasons. Though the map showing the No vote across the country was very telling.

Thanks bg, you’ve summed up exactly what’s wrong with UK elections. 87.5% of the Scottish regions voted no. 55% of the Scottish voters voted no.

Which do you think is more representative?

Hmm, you seem to be calling for electoral boundaries to be redrawn so that each seat carries a roughly equal population

Worth remembering that the Tories wanted to do this with parliamentary elections, and the other parties opposed it because of the advantage the current system gave them…

when I renew my children’s passports next week they will be British ones with all the status and privilege that that confers.

You are joking, right?

I’m not calling for anything. I was trying to point out a couple of things…

1. How the Scottish regions voted is of absolutely no relevance whatsoever in a national referendum.
2. My broader point was that PR is more representative than first past the post regional voting (87.5% versus 55%).

But hey ho, there are better places to live in the world than one governed by fear.

Honestly. Stop being so **** ridiculous. You have no idea what you ate talking about.

Worth remembering that the Tories wanted to do this with parliamentary elections, and the other parties opposed it because of the advantage the current system gave them…

I think you mean it is worth remembering the Tories wanted to do this because of the advantages it gave them

They voted against gerrymandering basically

wanmankylung – Member

I spent £831 this morning on taking the first steps to a better life. Unfortunately that life will be away from Scotland.

That’s a shame.
Why not stay and make a difference?

But hey ho, there are better places to live in the world than one governed by fear.

It’s not fear.
It’s human nature.

It might not work out, but I’d rather regret something that I have done than something I haven’t.

I agree with you there though.
🙂

And it’s a great opportunity missed.
But things are pretty fluid at the moment – at least stick around for the ‘Glasgow Spring’ mass uprising next year.

I think you mean it is worth remembering the Tories wanted to do this because of the advantages it gave them
They voted against gerrymandering basically

No, as you well know the status quo gives an inbuilt advantage to the other parties, an equal share of the vote does not give an equal outcome in parliament – returning that to the neutral point whereby every vote caries the same value is not gerrymandering, its called fairness.

And it wasn’t nationalist.

The clue is in the N of the name, SNP.

The N in SNP stands for national, not nationalist.

But hey ho, there are better places to live in the world than one governed by fear.

It’s a good thing you’re going to travel more because if you think Scotland is governed by fear, you must be naive or barking.

No, as you well know the status quo gives an inbuilt advantage to the other parties, an equal share of the vote does not give an equal outcome in parliament – returning that to the neutral point whereby every vote caries the same value is not gerrymandering, its called fairness.

Forgive me I had not realised they had proposed PR to replace FPTP and what they had done was make every vote count.
In that case I support it

How long before the bickering ends and it’s business as usual. Or is that just business as usual.

I am referring to Scotland not stw 😀

Gordon Brown’s playing a blinder this morning, live from Dalgety Bay on BBC News channel (130).
He’s on the way back…

Here is a piece from Irvine Welsh on the Guardian.

The clue is in the N of the SNP

😆 you still don’t get it. Guess you never will.

BTW regarding others smugness. Enjoy. Just be aware that minus the over 65. The vote was actually 54% yes.

Interesting times ahead to see how the 45 manifests itself.

Interesting times ahead to see how the 45 manifests itself.

Probably a lot will depend on whether the promised devolution is delivered and is successful, or if the main Westminster parties end up squabbling and produce nothing but hot air.

chip – Member
How long before the bickering ends and it’s business as usual.

Wednesday, next week.

Wednesday, next week

Thank **** for that I thought the referendum may have created a rift among the Scottish people.

mikewsmith +1

you still don’t get it.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_National_Party:

The Scottish National Party (SNP; Scottish Gaelic: Pàrtaidh Nàiseanta na h-Alba, Scots: Scots Naitional Pairtie) is a Scottish nationalist[14][15] and social-democratic[16][17][14] political party in Scotland.

I get it. You’re being obtuse.

It has, but we will soon be back to blaming the English.

As the voting map showed, there are rifts, but then there is the day job to attend to. Could be Thursday on reflection. 😉

Just be aware that minus the over 65. The vote was actually 54% yes.

If you discount the people that don’t agree with me, then everyone agrees with me! So I must be right!

Strip out 4 councils and …….

Who cares about the what ifs, the people have spoken. The result is known. Move on. It’s England, Wales and NI turn now!

I took his point to be next time there is a vote they will be dead and those left support Yes

I really hope this sparks prolonged debate on devolving powers to all part of the UK. Looking forward to being involved in the mix. If there is a will across the UK but Westminster drags its heels, we could have then have a movement on an epic scale.

I took his point to be next time there is a vote they will be dead

To be replaced by more over 65 year olds.