Wahoo Kickr or Stages Power Meter

Not sure what question I’m actually asking.

Guess I just want to see what you would do in my position.

I’m spending a good chunk of time on the turbo at the moment recovering from a broken collarbone. I’m really getting stuck into a into a trainerroad plan and actually enjoying it. The problem I have at the moment is my turbo doesn’t offer enough resistance to churn out a big gear at low rpm.

So I was looking for something with more resistance.

Then I discovered Zwift.

Now I’m pondering what to do….

Wahoo Kickr. It’s expensive but the erg mode would work well with trainerroad and looks like it’ll be a bundle of fun on Zwift. Once I’m fully recovered from my injury I’ll probably be using it twice a week (plus outdoor rides at weekend). I also like the fact that I can use my MTB on it that I’ll be racing on next year.

Second option, get a cheaper turbo with more resistance settings and a Stages power meter. Will probably save £250ish on this set up. The PM would be on my road bike, I don’t do much road riding outdoors but would be restricted to using this bike on the turbo. Not sure if I’d make much use of the power meter outdoors, who knows.

Trainerroad is my main usage.

I welcome your thoughts!

MTB stages, and a cheaper turbo, use the MTB on the turbo, then you have indoor and outdoor data

Get a kickr if you want the interaction ie resistance to go up during the hills in Zwift or other software like Bkool/Trainerroad…. maybe next year there will be lower cost power meter likes stages coming along even more cost effective..

The future of turbo training will be zwift like programs that are work well with interactive trainers. Once you have the kickr then you could keep it for years…. You could try other interactive trainers like the kickr snap, tacx, bkool and you could look at 2nd hand on ebay to bring cost down.
Or wait for you collarbone to heal, have a rest, then getout on some night rides with your lights when healed up….

I’m not a great lover of turbo trainers, but have to admit the kicker is a great bit of kit. Bike training for the iPhone generation and all the better for it.

Thanks all. I’m leaning towards the Kickr….

I don’t think I’d get the most out of a PM on the MTB either.

Got a Kickr and a stages, if I use my road bike on the Kickr with stages measuring the power and not controlling it I find it difficult to maintain a power accurately enough and match what TR is asking for. Not been much of a turbo user before so might just be me.
However when I use the erg mode it matches the resistance perfectly, no need to change gear can just alter cadence when want to.
If I had got a ‘normal’ turbo I wouldn’t be using it now, basically I am lazy and probably would back off but don’t get the opportunity with the Kickr. Was worried re resistance initially when looking at turbo’s but no issues at all with the Kickr.

I’ve got both, but if I had to dump one it would be the stages.
On the whole I don’t think mtb riding is that amenable to using a power meter, and even on a road bike if I want to do power based intervals, kickr is a far better method for me than staring at the readout on a garmin while trying to negotiate terrain and traffic.
One thing the radio range of kickr sometimes seems a bit rubbish if it’s having to compete with other radio traffic. If you do get one, and are planning to use an ANT+ dongle, then stick the dongle on the end of a USB extension lead and place it right next to the kickr.

I’d get a PM (probably not a Stages though) and either a more potent turbo or, if you want an “erg” mode then a much cheaper Tacx Bushido Smart (about 350 quid.)

I really want to like the Kickr, and I’ve hovered over the buy button a few times. But I really wouldn’t want to be running it without an external Power Meter doing the power measuring as the Kickr doesn’t seem to be that accurate. My current turbo bike PM is a powertap so not good for a Kickr.

Be interesting to see how the Neo gets reviewed. The Kickr has been a fairly unique product until recently so a lot of the failings have been overlooked a bit. Reckon we’ll see a few more similar offerings over the next year or so too.

I bought a Bushido Smart purely for Zwift, considering the price difference to the kickr it’s certainly the most cost effective way of getting a smart trainer with a realistic level of resistance for the hills.

If you want a pm as well you could order a Powerpod for less than £200 like I have…

I ended up with both. Does that help? It’s only money……

I’ve got a Kickr and a stages. Running side by side the Kickr and stages track each other almost perfectly all be it about 10-15w apart.

The Kickr is an amazing bit of kit and so smooth. Run either using trainer road with pre determined plans, ERG mode to control power or using Zwift to ride with the terrain controlling the resistance, it tracks well and adjusts quickly.

In your situation, I’d get the Kickr.

My wallet is now significantly lighter than it was 5 minutes ago

Running side by side the Kickr and stages track each other almost perfectly all be it about 10-15w apart.

😆

no, just no

Quick question for the Kickr users.

I’ve ordered one from wiggle listed as an 11 speed.

I’ll primarily be using 11 speed on it but also have some 10 speeds. Do I need anything to be able to swap between the two?

Change the cassette same as a normal wheel, kickr comes with an 11 speed installed and in a seperate bag a spacer for 10 speed.

My kickr also reads slightly higher than my stages, I put this down to my left:right distribution. Last time I was on a bike that sowed balance I was 48:52. Of course dual sided vectors or similar would be better than the stages if you have another £500…

Running side by side the Kickr and stages track each other almost perfectly all be it about 10-15w apart.

no, just no

Sorry? are you calling me a liar? I know what I can read on the screen.

Some interesting comments over on the timetraillingforum (here) about the kickr. And the linked to SlowTwitch thread is worth a read if you’ve got the time. This was enough to put me off the Kickr a while back. Though there are various mods and calibration kits you can get to try and fix some of the issues.

The Neo does look a very interesting prospect, especially given its potential to replicate road riding in a way that most other trainers would not be able to do. A few firmware revisions from now and I could be tempted.

Sorry? are you calling me a liar? I know what I can read on the screen.

do you know what some people would give for 15 watts?

15 watts difference is not close to tracking perfectly, that was my point

Kickr and stages here. kickr on its own would be awesome enough best paired with stages if you really want do something with the numbers….if you didnt use power outside then you’ll be fine with just the kickr.

is wiggle still doing the 15% platinum discount?
thats what tipped me over the edge

15 watts difference is not close to tracking perfectly, that was my point

One of the problems is that stages is assuming that the left/right leg balance is equal. Now there’s plenty of evidence out there that this is an often correct assumption, but there’s also evidence that older cyclists can have pretty large asymmetries, certainly enough to account for a 15W difference.

Analysis of the pedaling biomechanics of master’s cyclists: A preliminary study

http://www.jsc-journal.com/ojs/index.php?journal=JSC&page=article&op=view&path%5B%5D=15

Also just noticed this one too-

http://www.jsc-journal.com/ojs/index.php?journal=JSC&page=article&op=view&path%5B%5D=162

“This study found that though the Stages Cycling powermeter provided a reliable means of recording power output and cadence, the system significantly underestimated mean and peak power output when compared with the SRM system. This may in part be due to differences in strain gauge configuration and the subsequent algorithms used in the calculation of power output and the potential influence of bilateral imbalances within the muscles may have on these calculations.”

“This study found that though the Stages Cycling powermeter provided a reliable means of recording power output and cadence, the system significantly underestimated mean and peak power output when compared with the SRM system. This may in part be due to differences in strain gauge configuration and the subsequent algorithms used in the calculation of power output and the potential influence of bilateral imbalances within the muscles may have on these calculations.”

Summary… single sided PM’s are a bit rubbish.

I am quite surprised that the Kickr and Stages track each other within a fixed number of watts though, given the known issues with Kickr reported power.

Limited dataset but mine seems to track consistently personally I think it is down to balance. Btw. Trainerroad confirmed if you pair a power meter it overrides the trainer so if you have another power meter you Dont have to rely on the kickers readings.

A few firmware revisions from now and I could be tempted.

You will need an Apple device to update the firmware as you can’t do it from android or windows, which is pretty sick as the Tacx software is windows based, is it not.

That and a work colleagues tales of sh1t Tacx support tipped me into getting the Kickr. Plus the Neo was 25% or more over the wiggle discounted Kickr price.

Yes, early days for the Neo. Sounds like they had some issues with the windows and Android updaters. Probably rushed to market a bit. I’d give it a few months.

Still think it’s a very interesting device. Kickr is basically a standard mag turbo with electronic controlled resistance. Neo is a very different beast with big potential to program in a real road feel making turbo work that much more effective.

do you know what some people would give for 15 watts?

15 watts difference is not close to tracking perfectly, that was my point

I thought his point was they tracked perfected, just 15watts difference.

You are not getting 15 watts, you are just getting different readings. You’ll always get something like this from different power meters reading power at different points. So long as they are consistent, and you know your readings on that device it doesn’t matter.

Personally I’d have gone for a power meter as then you can study your power usage during events and devise a training plan based on those requirements. But then I can see the Kickr and related software being a bit more fun if you’re into computer games and the like.