Ukraine

What the **** were they even doing there? Patsies used to legitimise ignoring NATO and build the pretext for invasion. Basically just handing Putin the option to invade.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CZ0nHJwtLMi/?utm_medium=copy_link

The russians have sent in the Hilux convoy. 👀

Basically just handing Putin the option to invade.

I don’t think Putin really needs options handed to him by any outside influence as to make a decision about whether he invades Ukraine or not.

What the **** were they even doing there?

Truss was there to get some good shots for her leadership campaign, Johnson in Poland to show the domestic audience how he’s respected internationally
Macrons efforts also not irrelevant to the coming elections.
Ultimately this posturing is also for Putins domestic audiences too.

Politics trumps peace?

The russians have sent in the Hilux convoy.

Weren’t Toyota the preferred vehicle of the Taliban

The Hilux is the preferred vehicle for all, rebels, freedom fighters and roving bands of terrorists the whole world over.

Usually with a Dushka or a rocket pod welded into the load bed.

@nickc no but it adds to the narrative, a free propaganda boost, naive in the extreme

Are we reading much into the UK and US government’s asking thier citizens to leave Ukraine?

Not looking great

Not looking great

—

US officials anticipate a horrific, bloody campaign that begins with two days or aerial bombardment and electronic warfare, followed by an invasion, with the possible goal of regime change

Pretty much identical to the way America usually starts invasions. Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria etc etc

Are we reading much into the UK and US government’s asking thier citizens to leave Ukraine?

It’s probably due to the planning assumption that UK/US force won’t be allowed to deploy on the ground to enable an evacuation and a fast moving highly destructive campaign by Russia

Reduce the numbers in Ukraine reduce the risk

The counter argument is that it does some of Putin’s work for him by getting rid of bystanders who can cause a lot nuisance (a rather unfortunate “dead Ukrainians don’t count” analogy) and attention from foreign media and demands for NATO intervention

Pretty much identical to the way America usually starts invasions. Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria etc etc

And everyone else if they had the capability

Pretty much identical to the way America usually starts invasions. Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria etc etc

And how Russia started in the second Chechen war. Not doubt the Ukranians will be just as determined as the Chechens were, only better armed. And more united than the Afghans.
Taking Ukraine might be really simple for Russia. Subduing it will be another matter

Also, what’s Xi up to? No obvious signs of an invasion of Tiawan coming up but coordinating it would make sense. Although Taiwan is probably harder, as in better defended and simply more difficult to get to.

The joint war games end on the 20th.
Black see navel exercise ends on the 20th.
I’m guessing that’s why the US want their envoys out.

This crisis is like watching two drunks fighting over some tart outside a nightclub.

So what really happens if Putin does invade?

US saying he plans to encircle Kyiv and enforce regime change without urban fighting.

So what would happen, Ukraine doesn’t have the forces to stand up to Russia, no matter how determined they might be.

Nor does anyone else in the region.
America won’t directly step in

Putin has built up big reserves & couldn’t care less about sanctions.

The only other option is cyber, but Russia seems better prepared for that than we are

https://www.reuters.com/technology/russia-disconnected-global-internet-tests-rbc-daily-2021-07-22/

Although Taiwan is probably harder, as in better defended and simply more difficult to get to.

My guess would be China is still some way off that. They have had an insane growth in military capability but its still a work in progress.
Depends though if Xi starts feeling old and wants his legacy.

Putin has built up big reserves & couldn’t care less about sanctions

I thought earlier in the thread there were suggestions he has a chunk of foreign currency, but other than that pretty broke.

US saying he plans to encircle Kyiv and enforce regime change without urban fighting.

Bush speech on Iraq

” “Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised. This regime has already used weapons of mass destruction against Iraq’s neighbors and against Iraq’s people.” ”

I dont think we can believe anything the US has to say on this. Most of what they come up with they’ve yet to show any proof even when asked to.

I still think this is just all posturing.

I still think this is just all posturing.

We can do a game, which country has more troops/ tanks/ planes/ warships on the border of Ukraine?

Which country is posturing?

Boden has explicitly said no US troops fighting the Russians in Ukraine. Who is posturing?

dyna-ti
Free Member
Tell you what. Go argue amongst yourselves, I’ll not be checking back into this thread.

I still think this is just all posturing.

Great, you’re back, endlessly reposting the same thing over and over again despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Who is posturing?

Er… Russia.

For your benefit B&D.

Posturing:

Noun – behaviour that is intended to impress or mislead.

As I’ve said, nothing is going to happen and its all a show.

🙄

Sorry 😆 which evidence is this. Last time I looked they hadn’t actually invaded yet.

Try to keep up with events thols. I’m sure the BBC will let you know when something actually happens.

Or is it you think the US is some peace loving country that never causes any problems anywhere ever. My my, that would be a stretch of the imagination and truth wouldn’t it. But if you care to disagree then feel free to show proof of that.

despite all the evidence to the contrary.

You’ll have to remind me. Which country was it that coined the term ‘Gunboat Diplomacy’ I think it was the US, but might have been the UK.

No different going on here.

So UK in same place as US, armed forces minister on R4 confirms no UK troops in Ukraine if Russia invades (or the Stop the War version; Russia takes defensive measures against NATO aggression )

Im sorry B&D. this isnt the 18th century where we need 2 armies to build up across a battlefield, before it al kicks off. Thats not how these things are conducted these days.

Isn’t posturing a verb?

Or is it you think the US is some peace loving country that never causes any problems anywhere ever. My my, that would be a stretch of the imagination and truth wouldn’t it.

See, this is just your failure of imagination. The US has done, and continues to do some of the worst things with it’s military and 3 letter agencies . THAT DOES NOT EXCUSE Russia trying to do the same thing to the countries on it’s borders. Just because some posters of this thread are critical of Russia’s actions, does not exclude the possibility or indeed likelihood that those same people are also critical of the actions of NATO, the US and the UK.

Isn’t posturing a verb?

Posture is a verb, posturing is a noun.

@Nickc.

At no point have i said I wholeheartedly agree with the actions of Russia, only that i can understand their point of view and concerns in this matter.

Some think that this is an acknowledgement that i think Russia would be justified in invading.

Russia invading would cause Russia great harm economically, but not if they just threaten to do so. After all this isnt the US or any of the countries they support and supply arms to Saudi in its war against the peoples of Yemen for example.

Nobody also seems to want to acknowledge the parallels between this and what happened in Cuba. We nearly had WW3 over that and the simple premise is the US didnt want the soviets sitting with military and armaments really close to them. Russia feels this is the same.

Posture is a verb, posturing is a noun.

* strictly speaking, and depending on context it’s a gerund or a present participle.

@Scapegoat

So you agree then.

Excellent 😀

DPA reports Germany will send six howitzers to Lithuania (together with the reinforcements to its troops stationed in the country as part of NATO’s enhanced forward presence) https://t.co/nerjAhuMqm

— Ulrike Franke (@RikeFranke) February 11, 2022

“Advanced forward presence”  To shore up those battalion sized battle groups they they have in the former Soviet countries.

Incidentally Kelvin, I cant speak German. Is there some way that link can be translated ?.

I do wonder how these countries, Romania, Poland*, Lithuania etc feel about some joint war going on in their countries. I’ll bet they’ve all seen before and after pics associated with such proxy actions.

*Especially Poland. They’ve great experience of how western politics behaved towards them at the end of WW2, when their country was gifted to Stalin.

Russia feels this is the same.

I think that’s Russia’s excuse for trying to invade Ukraine, after all Putin must know that invading a neighbouring country isn’t going to make this problem go away. I don’t think for a second that Putin is actually worried about having NATO on Russia’s borders, after all, they’ve been on his country’s borders his entire lifetime.

when their country was gifted to Stalin.

I don’t think NATO should gift Ukraine to Putin.

Given that Romania, Poland, Lithuania, Estonia are all NATO members I think that tells you something about how they feel at the prospect of renewed Russian expansionism. They had decades of Soviet oppression and don’t wish to see it again.

At the end of the Warsaw uprising when Poland could have been freed by the Soviet advance, Stalin ordered it to be halted. The express purpose of this was to allow the Germans free rein to commit mass murder and destroy most of Warsaw. This also destroyed any real hope of Poland emerging as a sovereign nation post WW2 and allowed the Soviets to march in and commence 50 years of oppression.

Last time I looked they hadn’t actually invaded yet.

They invaded Crimea and the eastern border areas of Ukraine several years ago. They have been building up very large forces around the border of Ukraine, seemingly in preparation to continue the ongoing invasion on a larger scale.

Or is it you think the US is some peace loving country that never causes any problems anywhere ever.

The U.S. isn’t preparing a large-scale invasion of Ukraine, Russia is. If the U.S. was doing that, I’d be strongly opposed, just as I was opposed to the invasion of Iraq.

Nobody also seems to want to acknowledge the parallels between this and what happened in Cuba. We nearly had WW3 over that and the simple premise is the US didnt want the soviets sitting with military and armaments really close to them. Russia feels this is the same.

The U.S. does not have any weapons in Ukraine, let alone nuclear tipped ballistic missiles. This is not about Russia being concerned about U.S. missiles, it’s Russia refusing to acknowledge Ukraine’s right to make sovereign decisions about whether it wants closer ties to the EU.

I do wonder how these countries, Romania, Poland*, Lithuania etc feel about some joint war going on in their countries. I’ll bet they’ve all seen before and after pics associated with such proxy actions.

Those countries were very keen to join NATO because they were afraid of Russia. Ukraine also wants to join NATO for the same reason. Russia’s actions justify their concerns.

The NATO smoke screen is being overplayed. What do you think Putin will say when the EU block has a joined army. “We must have an invasion of Ukraine as we don’t want an EU army in Poland it’s a direct threat to the motherland”
He has gone mad and no one in his club wants the free cash train to end so they won’t get rid

“Advanced forward presence” To shore up those battalion sized battle groups they they have in the former Soviet countries independent sovereign states which are members of NATO.

FIFY

I do wonder how these countries, Romania, Poland*, Lithuania etc feel about some joint war going on in their countries. I’ll bet they’ve all seen before and after pics associated with such proxy actions.

As you well know the “war” is already ongoing, Russia is constantly preparing the ground to destabilise, setting up infiltration, positioning assets, testing cyber warfare capability. They joined NATO to ensure that the Russian activities can’t escalate because article 5 would be triggered

I wonder why the Finnish are now talking about NATO membership?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-finland-invasion-fears-military-sites-land-sales-blocked-a7578601.html

that story is about Finland stopping foreigners, especially Russians, but all foreigners, from buying homes/land near their bases. I’m not subscribed to the independent but from the headline it doesnt appear to say Finland are interested in joining NATO.

At least not according to the Finnish foreign secretary Pekka Haavisto as of last month i see. Of course this stance could have changed, but it doesnt sit with their usual policy on being a part of NATO.

They are in bi-lateral agreements with NATO, but they(and Sweden) like to have their own terms and not feel like they’re under pressure form anyone.

Besides, the Fins have nowt to fear from Russia. They’ve proven that before.

Besides, the Fins have nowt to fear from Russia. They’ve proven that before.

More utter nonsense.