UK Election!

Does that pretty much cover it?

Don’t be daft. The two-child cap was a major issue before the election, and along with prisons and the NHS it’s top of the list of priorities now given the hardship and misery it causes. I don’t see any ‘lefties’ demanding anything else, in fact I think the left has been remarkably restrained. As usual though you’re not happy unless you’re having a go at lefties and sixth formers for no other reason than gloating tribalism.

also noting that they continually state how Starmer got less votes than Corbyn

Thanks for reminding me of that, I had forgotten.

In fact since the 2001 general election with  the highest amounts of votes for Labour, over 10 million,  both occurred when Corbyn was leader.

Hurrah! That was 5 7 years of shit Conservative rule avoided then. Praise be!

No one else interested inthese appointments?

Keir Starmer has drafted into government two leftwing critics of his stance on benefits and green investment, as the prime minister faces pressure to drop Labour’s cautious approach to reviving the economy.

Statham has also criticised Starmer’s economic caution, and argued as recently as last month that his failure to prioritise scrapping the two-child limit on benefits would ensure Labour was making a “plan for substantial increases in child poverty” over the next five years.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/17/keir-starmer-appoints-two-influential-leftwing-critics-to-government

He might actually be quite good at this technocratic stuff – and not surrounding himself with folk who only say yes

As I said – is this Starmer moving leftish?  seems to have been a  few of these.  Is he pushing back against the rightwingers on the front bench?  Will he ditch Cooper and Streeting?

No one else interested inthese appointments?

I replied when you posted it first time. Lost among all the circular repetition that no one is reading.

He might actually be quite good at this technocratic stuff – and not surrounding himself with folk who only say yes

Just needs to ditch Streeting and Cooper now. 🙂

This almost feels to me like Starmer is pushing leftish against the right wingers in his cabinet – there have been a few appointments like this

TBH I suspect that the hand of Morgan McSweeney is behind all this. McSweeney is undoubtedly a highly pragmatic operator. I don’t doubt at all that he was the author of Starmer’s “10 socialist pledges” during the leadership contest.

It was McSweeney who cajoled a somewhat reluctant Starmer to enter the leadership contest, and it is no doubt McSweeney who is guiding Starmer’s premiership now.

All this actually makes me reasonably optimistic as it undoubtedly makes Starmer/McSweeney far more susceptible to pressure than if they were ideologically driven, such as the Lady who wasn’t for turning.

The important thing is to maintain the pressure on Labour and again I am fairly optimistic that the LibDems, Nationalists, Greens, Independents, and Labour rebels, will hopefully do this.

The last thing we need is treat the defeat of the Tories as job done. It’s only the beginning.

In fact since the 2001 general election with  the highest amounts of votes for Labour, over 10 million,  both occurred when Corbyn was leader.

Fantastic! You know when England lost to Spain in the Euro’s final? Well they actually completed more passes than the Spanish in their own half so.. you know… technically that’s a win!

Anyway…, You are aware where the attention of the grown-ups is today while the common room is going all misty-eyed for the glory days of idealogical purity and permanent opposition under St Jeremy?

We cannot let the challenges of the past define our relationships of the future.

My government’s new approach to Europe, to make our country safer and more secure, starts today at the European Political Community summit. pic.twitter.com/vMJfSSYm2A

— Keir Starmer (@Keir_Starmer) July 18, 2024

And then there’s the small matter of the first covid report being published, which might have one or two implications for government

I’m interested in how we work with the EU and the surrounding area, i think the way things are going, the UK are in a good position to strengthen and be more joined up with the EU, even Trump coming in will help us, as the more the EU fear the US backing off, the UK will become more beneficial to supporting Ukraine, wider issues of the move to the right and so on, that’s one thing i’m really hoping for from this government over their 5 years!

It’s got… everything to do with political expediency.

Labour got elected with a massive majority 2 weeks ago. They could nationalise King Charles’s left nut and there would be no electoral blowback in 5 years time. They don’t need to be politically expedient or worry about a few negative headlines – which abolishing the 2CBC wouldn’t create anyway. You lot are living in the 1990s.

On the EU – expect fine words and no action.  The withdrawal agreement is not up for any renegotiation and Starmers red lines of no to the 4 freedoms means no significant rapprochement.  The EU has moved on and we are now just one of the countries outside the EU with nothing to offer them of any significance

the EU has much more important stuff to do than to pander to the UK.  The UK is just a non issue to them

the EU has much more important stuff to do than to pander to the UK.  The UK is just a non issue to them

Ah, so that’s why all the European leaders are at Blenheim Palace today. Due to us being an irrelevance. None of them, particularly Zolensky, had much on today, so they thought they’d have a nice day out. I hope they all remembered their National Trust membership cards so they didn’t have to pay for parking.

Or maybe they’re here to listen to what a new and very different UK government has to say about a number of issues, regional security being at the forefront of that, with a view to closer cooperation?

Rachel Reeves is a total menace.

With our new fiscal lock, never again can a government play fast and loose with the public finances.

Basically because of all the ill-informed Centrists repeating the nonsense of the Truss implosion (without truly understanding a thing about it) – Reeves has seen it fit to create yet another mythical layer and rule giving more power to the wonky OBR just because … Lizz Truss made some wonky markets exhibit wonky behaviour for a short while – for tax cuts, not investment.

‘Fiscal lock’ I give you.

But none of this matters because Ian Dunt has seen Starmer stood with some high-fliers in his commitment to Ukraine spending.

I was joking when I thought Labour might be worse economically than the Tories but it’s very much going down that route.

They need something other than waiting for growth – without hesitation.

 The UK is just a non issue to them

I’d be very sceptical that having the 6th largest economy, a European country, and outside your trading block is a non-issue, given that on gong wealth of all the other nations that want to trade with depends on having more sensible and grown up trade decisions. And that’s nothing to say about secuirty, Ukraine, terrorism, intelligence, climate change, etc etc etc.

You lot are living in the 1990s.

I’d actually pinpointed it to 1976 😀

Its just a talking shop.  Some fine words and that is it.  We are no longer of any relevance to the EU

Anyway…, You are aware where the attention of the grown-ups is today while the common room is going all misty-eyed for the glory days of idealogical purity and permanent opposition under St Jeremy?

This ‘grown-ups’ things has become a well worn vacuous trope of empty headed politics.

Give us something real – something that improves material conditions .

Political will over bullshit.

All of Labour’s current fiscal moves (or lack of) are currently counter productive.

They will not hit the spot for their growth.

Then we can pile on the pressure.

Imagine following a Tory paradigm of economics.  Moronic.

Fantastic! You know when England lost to Spain in the Euro’s final?

I know that you treat politics as if it is some sort of game, I do know that.

I believe you pick a side and stick with that, right or wrong doesn’t come into it, apparently. You never criticise your side. It’s worked well with Stalinist parties throughout history.

I am grateful to argee for reminding everyone that even Corbyn worse general election result delivered half a million more votes for Labour than Starmer, and to you for reminding everyone that Labour’s landslide was just down to the weird rules behind first-past-the-post.

Hooray for first-past-the-post!

When it conveniently works in your favour. Boo when it doesn’t.

It’s more than just a game, it’s a **** pantomime!

Give us something real – something that improves material conditions .

Political will over bullshit.

You mean, like this? Surely even our resident bunch of bitter, joyless, grandad-worshipping, utterly humourless, sanctimonious, perma-whining placard-wavers can’t be annoyed about this, can they?

Can they?

Avanti, CrossCountry, TransPennine: Which rail operator will you cheer to the grave?

It’s worked well with Stalinist parties throughout history.

Yeah, you never treat political discussion like a game, do you. Never a hint of hyperbole.

grown-ups’ things has become a well worn vacuous trope of empty headed politics

Quite! Still, posting cartoons and shouting everyone down whilst not actually offering anything of substance, is what the forums self appointed ‘thread policeman’ seems to think counts as ‘grown up’. It’s actually embarrassing.

Never a hint of hyperbole.

Hyperbole? Are you seriously accusing me of “a hint” of hyperbole when I am responding to binners? LOL!

Have a look at the endless rantings in the various political threads for more than just a hint of hyperbole

I’d be very sceptical that having the 6th largest economy, a European country, and outside your trading block is a non-issue, given that on gong wealth of all the other nations that want to trade with depends on having more sensible and grown up trade decisions. And that’s nothing to say about secuirty, Ukraine, terrorism, intelligence, climate change, etc etc etc.

Yeah, why in the current climate would the EU want to have some kind of agreement with the 6th largest economy, one of the 5 nuclear powers and so on, when TJ keeps going on about Scottish Independence and how the EU would welcome a nation of 5 million in without any of that with open arms ?

On the EU – expect fine words and no action.  The withdrawal agreement is not up for any renegotiation

It is actually.  There’s a formal review in 2026 which could see both parties agree amendments.   The conversations around that will start well before any formal date.

It is actually. There’s a formal review in 2026 which could see both parties agree amendments. The conversations around that will start well before any formal date.

Read up on it and what has been said.  there is going to be no renegotiation.  I put the quote up pages back.  Its over and done.  It is not going to be renegotiated in any way.   This is where Starmer and co have been attempting to gaslight the UK.  The EU side have made this 100% clear.

There is no need for the EU to renegotiate, they have made it clear they will not, we are an irrelevance to them and they have moved on without us and have much more pressing issues to deal with

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-deal-cant-be-re-negotiated-uks-next-pm-eu-2405593

This is the official position and has been held consistently .  No renegotiation.

You don’t need to renegotiate the whole agreement in order to have a different implementation.

TJ – As a food exporter I’ve had more painful familiarity with the TCA than I might wish.

The TCA provides for formal review in a window opening May 2026 (and every 5 years thereafter).  There are several provisions of it which expire that year and need to be renegotiated for anything to continue – energy cooperation, fishing access etc.  Whether the TCA is operating as intended or not so that procedures may be revised if necessary is the main part of the review.  It isn’t a wholesale renegotiation, but there’s plenty that can be adjusted within the framework provided if both parties are willing.

Yes – so NO renegotiation.  Some minor tinkering around the edges if everyone agrees.  Not what you said.

The EU have made it clear they have no interest in revisiting this in any way.

European Commission Vice-President Maros Sefcovic said the EU wanted the review to take place a year later than previously thought, in 2026, and warned that it would only cover the “implementation” of the deal rather than wholesale changes.

Mr Sefcovic said customs checks at the border would likely remain but stressed the TCA had not been used to its “full potential”.

But he told the EU-UK forum: “This article doesn’t constitute a commitment to reopen the TCA or to negotiate supplementary agreements.

“The TCA will simply not be able to recreate any kind of notion of the single market.”

His comments were echoed by Stefan Fuehring, head of the Commission’s unit on the TCA, who said changes to the deal would be a “very long shot”.

“It’s a review, not a revision, not a renewal or even amendment of any sort,” he told the event

Reeves and Starmer have said that they’d rather have a situation where folks can earn sufficient money in wages so that they’re not so reliant on benefits to top them up,

Thats long needed, a minimum £15/hour wage.

Well done labour

TJ – try the commons library rather than press reporting.  It lists what’s to be renegotiated vs what’s to be reviewed.  You’re making a big deal over the word “renegotiation” as if that’s all-encompassing.  Some parts are to be renegotiated. The workings overall are to be reviewed.  Plenty of wriggle room there for willing parties to make it a bit better than it is.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-10040/

so NO renegotiation.

The EU have made it clear they have no interest in revisiting this in any way.

Your words, no one elses…. well maybe Farage and Corbyn agree with you.

Some Quotes from today:

The prime minister says Britain will be ‘a friend and a partner’ – and will never withdraw from the European Convention on Human Rights

Keir Starmer scores first EU success as Irish PM describes reset between the two countries as ‘real and meaningfull

Taoiseach said: “I am really pleased to confirm that the reset I have been speaking about in terms of Anglo-Irish relations is real”.

“It is under way and it is meaningful.”

The UK and Irish governments have also pledged to meet annually to “deepen and re-invigorate co-operation”

“About having early engagement with European colleagues and counterparts.

“Ireland is very keen to see a closer relationship between the UK and Europe, we believe it is in our interests, we also believe it is in the interests of the European Union to have its closest neighbour with a closer relationship.

“I think time will tell what that looks like.

“In the first instance it is entirely appropriate that a Prime Minister who is only in office 13 days has the opportunity to tease through with his own team what that looks like”.

“But when we reach moments of engagement Ireland of course will be willing to discuss issues with our European colleagues in terms of what a closer relationship could look like.

“What I have definitely left Chequers knowing is that you have a British Prime Minister who wants to see a closer relationship with the European Union.”

French president Macron also said “this is a great opportunity for a reset” as the prime minister fired the starting gun on what he hope will be Britain’s new relationship with the EU as he hosted fellow European leaders at a summit in Oxfordshire.

Ahead of the European Political Community (EPC) conference at Blenheim Palace, Sir Keir promised to fix Britain’s damaged relations with the bloc to benefit “generations to come” as he warned “we cannot let the challenges of the recent past define our relationships of the future.”

I have literally put the quotes from the EU folk who are responsible for this.

It’s a review, not a revision, not a renewal or even amendment of any sort,

But he told the EU-UK forum: “This article doesn’t constitute a commitment to reopen the TCA or to negotiate supplementary agreements.

From your link:

Although some commentaries have presented the 2026 review as an opportunity for the UK and EU to renegotiate the TCA, EU officials have stressed that this does not mean a revision of the treaty, rather a review of how it is being implemented.

Or from https://www.cer.eu/insights/what-approach-should-labour-take-2026-tca-review

The risk lies in overstating the significance of the review process. Article 776 of the TCA, which contains the review clause, merely states that the parties “shall jointly review the implementation of this Agreement and supplementing agreements and any matters related thereto five years after the entry into force of this Agreement and every five years thereafter.” It would be a mistake to read too much into the language here. Similar review clauses are included in many comparable treaties: at least 27 EU agreements with other third countries contain some form of review and monitoring clause.

In practice, most reviews amount to little more than a meeting of a joint committee – or, in the case of the TCA, the ‘Partnership Council’ – and result in officials writing up a report with trade statistics and occasional suggestions for improvements. At best, reviews serve as a guide to establishing a shared agenda for the years ahead and, at worst, they are an exercise in futility.

EU officials have made it clear that the review process will be about a review of the implementation of the agreement rather than a review of the treaty itself, in line with what the treaty text says. Maroš Šefčovič, the vice-president of the European Commission who oversees UK relations, has said that the TCA had not been used to its “full potential” but warned that the review “does not constitute a commitment to reopen the TCA or to renegotiate the supplementary agreements”. Another EU official was adamant that the process is “a review, not a revision, not a renewal or even amendment of any sort”. The EU has a clear position on what to expect from the review: not very much.

To agree on a veterinary agreement that removes most friction in trading agrifood products, either a separate ‘side agreement’ would need to be struck, or an entire chapter of the TCA dedicated to sanitary and phytosanitary issues would need to be rewritten.

And the EU have said categorically no side agreements, no revision of the agreement

the review “does not constitute a commitment to reopen the TCA or to renegotiate the supplementary agreements”.

the review “does not constitute a commitment to reopen the TCA or to renegotiate the supplementary agreements”.

Of course it doesn’t, but read the language… “does not constitute a commitment ” does not mean ‘it’s not up for discussion or negociation’.

Any contract or treaty can be renegociated or annulled if all parties are in full agreement, it’s just a paper/admin exercise.

It’s almost as if some people just want to wallow in misery.

TJ – the commons library says what is renegotiation vs review.  Actually says some parts need to be renegotiated.  I think most will understand that it will be limited rather than wholesale but the ability to improve its operation is there.  Lots of what is problematic is less about the TCA and more about is implementation.  Plenty could be improved about cross-border food inspection and documentation processes without necessarily changing the TCA.

The TL:DR of UK-EU relations. There will be a security pact. There will be an early Starmer-von der Leyen summit. There will be various negotiations and agreements. Individually these won't be economically significant. Collectively they will amount to considerable deepening.

— David Henig ?? (@DavidHenigUK) July 18, 2024

"Quite promising" is wonderful negotiating speak for "something will happen but we all have to work out what it is".

UK-EU security pact is actually >99% chance of happening, but content and linkages have to be determined.
https://t.co/P3e6OEDv1l

— David Henig ?? (@DavidHenigUK) July 18, 2024

Yawn….

This

is

like

watching

bald

men

fighting

over

who

gets

to

use

the

comb.

Again…………………….

Oldbloke – yes there could be tinkering around the edges around implementation.  That is it.

the EU side have made it 100% clear that there will be no substantive renegotiation.  The chapter is closed, they have moved on, they have more important things to deal with.

Yawn….

This

is

like

watching

bald

men

fighting

over

who

gets

to

use

the

comb.

Again…………………….

Jeezus, try to contribute more to a thread than just snidey comments.

When was the last time that you posted something on this thread vaguely connected to the topic?