Subscribe now and choose from over 30 free gifts worth up to £49 - Plus get £25 to spend in our shop
My job takes me all over the North of England and for the last two days I've been working near Manchester Airport, travelling from Leeds.
Minimum journey time has been 2 1/4 hours and maximum, tonight, 3 1/2 hours, for a 50 mile journey, basically because the motorway has been down to one lane or closed due to accidents.
Now I appreciate that they happen and I hope everyone's ok but how do we solve the issues that volume of traffic causes in this country.
It properly f'd up my days and there are poor souls doing that commute every day and being 2 hours late for work on a regular basis obviously isn't cool.
Public transport is useless between big cities up North so why can't we just get some compulsory purchase orders and build some 5 lane freeways? It would work for me
50 miles is ridable
Gonna say, you have to ask on a cycling forum?
Move closer to where you work?
Public transport is useless between big cities up North
Trains between Leeds and Manchester are roughly every 10-15 minutes and are direct.
Not sure what else you want to consider it a decent service ?
Train ? Journey time shows as 1hr 17 mins from Leeds->Manc Airport
Almost every car has one person in it, its a very inefficient way of transporting people around. Building more roads will not help, modal shift is needed. Car sharing, public transport, biking, walking would all have more impact on traffic levels than road building. You're not stuck in traffic, you are traffic
Public transport is useless between big cities up North
It's a bit rubbish down south too, ever tried Plymouth to Norwich?
I haven't, but can't imagine it being much fun.
I think a better phrase would be "public transport outside London is useless"
Last time I used a train was over 4 years ago. Reading to Lincolnshire, 140 miles. A single off peak ticket cost more than the return trip would have done in diesel and was only around an hour quicker than biking it.
Train + bike or taxi?
.
With how busy the UK now is, we need a massive shift in how we travel, how much we travel and how to think differently...
Live close to where you work.
Use anything BUT a car.
Stop going to so many meetings.
Personal hover packs
The problem I have is a cover an area from the Scottish Borders down to North Wales on one side and Norfolk on the other, often at short notice and can have appointments 150miles apart in the same day, so public transport isn't a realistic option, moving closer to work would mean a camper an Monday to Friday.
I know I am the traffic but I'm genuinely interested in realistic solutions to the road network as there are car users who have to even if we would prefer not to.
Edit- I would love to use video conferencing but as our biggest customer, the NHS, is such a IT dinosaur, full of people who can't keep to a schedule it wouldn't work
A cull. There are too many people on such a small island who all want cars, more roads will result in more cars.
Increase fuel duty to price people off the road.
Increased use of punctuation marks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Driving needs to be seen as a privilege, not a right. If you can't drive to a high standard, you shouldn't be on the road. I believe a given number of cars would be more successful if they were all driven better.
I live and work around Greater London, if I did 50 miles in that in that time I'd be chuffed.
Increase fuel duty to price people off the road and massively hike the prices of pretty much everything you eat, drink or use.
FTFY
I was on a service call at Hartshead Moor services westbound when they closed the M62 today, i walked over the bridge and did a call at the eastbound.
Whilst stood on the bridge i watched an ambulance trying to get through the traffic, it took it 15 minutes to get from the entrance slip road to the services to the exit slip road back on.
I stood in amazement at the fact the have closed the hard shoulder for 8? miles.
The reason they are working on the M62 is to put a variable hard shoulder in, this is only going to make matters worse.
If the ambulance took 15 minutes to get past the services(1/2 a mile at the most), how long to get to the accident at gildersome ? (5 miles further up)
Surely this hard shoulder system is going to cost lives as the emergency services can't get through.
Rant over 🙄
(I escaped through the staff exit and went the back way through Bradford to get back home to Boston Spa 😀 )
[quote=BenHouldsworth said]The problem I have is a cover an area from the Scottish Borders down to North Wales on one side and Norfolk on the other, often at short notice and can have appointments 150miles apart in the same day
Don't envy you there, crazy situation.
Don't add to the traffic?
[img] 
[/img]
Funnily, there are days when I could happily work at home to avoid the massive waste of time that travelling to and from work involves. Today was nearly 3 hours of my life that, Radio 4 aside, could have been far better utilised.
Frankly, the infrastructure investment shouldn't be in roads: it should be in improving the online connectivity of the country. There's some exceptional video conferencing capability out there (eg Cisco Telepresence). Turned into a PC version on a quick up/down connection and there's little need to have offices and commuting.
In brief. Change of culture and better town / city planning.
-A cultural shift, more home working
-A cultural shift so people where possible life near work rather than, live in a village miles from the city they work and drive in.
-A cultural shift of people not jumping into the car for short journeys. Also more people using public transport. I've know people in London that drive 1.5 miles to work in a office. No disability.
-A cultural shift so that people consider other option than the car. Maybe use the car to do a big shop but then take bus to go to the cinema e.t.c.
-A cultural shift to encourage car sharing.
-A cultural shift, more flexible working hours to smooth out peaks of traffic.
-Better town planing to avoid poorly designed housing that makes public transport impractical.
-Better town planning reducing in out of town shopping areas and business parks that are only easily accessible by car. That's not to say all shops and offices should be in town centres. It's the sprawl of many business and retail parks is poorly designed, push the business and shopping parks together into mini centres with a communal parking and pedestrianised areas to make them a destination rather than a series of buildings in a car park. This make public transport, lift sharing, more practical rather than a narrow ribbon surrounding towns.
-Better town planning to include quality cycle and pedestrian facilities.
-Redesign of some junctions to improve safety and through put of traffic.
-More variable speed limits. Smooths traffic flow and increase throughput.
-Harsher consequence for motoring offensives. People treating their licence as a precious object rather than a right. Less accidents, less traffic problems.
That will do to start.
Then when people need to drive (and most people do some times) they can get about easier.
The answer to traffic is a well timetabled, [u][b]reliable[/b][/u], coordinated public transport network involving [u]buses and trains[/u].
Shame my job can't be done online. if you want to power your computer, someone has to go out and look after that kit.
More roads would help. Despite the UK starting to build motorways 60 odd years ago there is still no motorway link between Glasgow and Edinburgh.
One of my jobs involves driving across Glasgow on various routes at varying times of day. Life is much better since the completion of the M74 last year.
Onzadog - Member
Shame my job can't be done online. if you want to power your computer, someone has to go out and look after that kit.
Which if everyone (including you when you don't need to drive) follows my recommendations, you will be able to do far more easily!
Shame my job can't be done online. if you want to power your computer, someone has to go out and look after that kit.
But wouldn't it be ace if you could get there more easily without people like me clogging up the roads because there's an historic expectation that my work can only be done in an office with one road in and out and a ship canal in between.
muckytee - Member
The answer to traffic is a well timetabled, reliable, coordinated public transport network involving buses and trains.
This is the REAL answer.
autopilot on motorways.
make the motorway speed limit 50 keep hgvs to the inside lane and off the roads between 7 and 10 and 3 and 7 and bingop
muckytee - Member
The answer to traffic is a well timetabled, reliable, coordinated public transport network involving buses and trains.
To achieve this town and cities need to be designed around this idea rather than everyone driving. They are both interlinked.
petrieboy - Member
autopilot on motorways.
Would be awesome. Safer, more fuel efficient, smoother. I'm not sure how many people would actually accept it. Also it would have to be all or nothing. All cars on the motorway on autopilot or none.
Between Manchester and Leeds is a special sort of hell hole. When the idiots voted down massive investments in coordinated public transport due to scare stories about congestion charging the writing was on the wall. People can't see how public transport can work as its so shocking. Overcrowding badly timed and slow.
It requires massive investment in proper infrastructure including the expansion of some roads. Charging for some routes may be needed but only when I viable alternative is in place. That and transport planning needs to be done by non London dwellers
More telecommuting. Much more.
It would solve many problems, both rural and urban. And result in much better family life for a great many people. Both those who have to travel for work and those who have to work like hell to afford a house near where the work is or have to spend 3 hours a day driving.
Madness in this day and age.
Also it would have to be all or nothing. All cars on the motorway on autopilot or none.
Possibly not. There was a thing on telly the other day where cars were networked to chain them into convoys. So the front car drives and the others are connected to it, so they brake when the front car does. That way, only the cars in the convoy need the facilities and you can still interact normally. They drove so close together that other cars couldn't pull into the gap. Well.. M25 drivers might be able to.
There are three sensible choices available:
1. Kill the driver in front of you.
2. Kill yourself.
3. Kill EVERYONE in the WHOLE WORLD.
/manic cackle
send all non urgent heavy good via canal rather than HGV, re-establish the water ways and share the distribution load across the UK.
having just in from 489 mile round trip and a 16 hr day can I have one of these local working commutable by bike jobs please.
HGVs aren't the problem. They all leave the motorways during rush hour, at least on the M3 and M4 it seems. When I get snarled up in congestion there are very few HGVs involved.
In our company we don't see reps any more at all. We speak by phone and look at their products on the internet. However this causes major problems with some of our suppliers as they "HAVE" to visit their customers and file call reports in order to get paid. Even though in a lot of cases the visit was just a chat and a cup of coffee. Insanity.
Clearly public transport has a significant part to play, but it's going to be a raft of measures that will make improvements including, I suspect higher fuel prices.
A cultural shift of people not jumping into the car for short journeys. Also more people using public transport. I've know people in London that drive 1.5 miles to work in a office. No disability
This is the biggie. I think the OP has a genuine need to use a car but there a lot of lazy people out there. I think car tax should be charged per day the car is used.
For example, abolish fuel duty and charge car tax at £10 for each day you drive (maybe vary that according to emissions, price of car whatever). Hey presto, the 1 mile drive to work is suddenly very expensive and people will look for alternatives. The 300 mile drive overnight (when there is no train) to Spean Bridge (where there is no station) becomes a lot cheaper. The vast majority of congestion is cuased by a lot of people making very short journies, and it's congestion that causes pollution. If you aren't moving you are doing 0mpg.
This plan is not flawless, people with a £70k RangeRover doing 15mpg or a £100K S-Class doing 20mpg will still be able to afford to do silly shot journies. However, if fuel prices keep going up at the present rate soon it will be only those with massive gas-guzzlers who can afford to drive.
.
Or carbon rationing. If we could make that work the sky's the limit.
The vast majority of congestion is cuased by a lot of people making very short journies,
I don't think it is. I tihnk it's people going to work over longer distances than that.
People will only drive 2 miles to work if it's easy, and it's only easy if there's not much traffic.
what traffic?
[img] 
[/img]
What andrewh says ^^.
Road pricing. Short journey in the city at rush hour? Tax the hell out of it. Long journey at night on motorways? Costs peanuts. Added bonus that it can be run using ANPR cameras and if your car isn't insured/taxed/MOT'd then when you pull up at a fuel station, the pump auto-shuts down and the system calls the police. 🙂
I'd make a great dictator.
And actually supply a top quality public transport system (be that buses, trams, hire bikes, trains, tube, water taxis or whatever) that's designed to move people rather than make massive profits.
You can't just whack up the prices. It'll cause hell with people's lives. You'll suddenly get people who were just making ends meet having to move jobs or move, either of which can be very difficult.
You could be a tory politician with carefully thought out ideas like that 🙂
If the roads are empty people will use them. Traffic jams are the only way of getting people out of their cars.
If I could easily drive into town and park there, I probably would. I can't so I don't.
It would help if public transport was more affordable.
Walk up tickets on Trains can be horrendous if you can't plan when you need to go. Been stung for £200 return from Sheffield to London before.
And the train was rubbish, slow, broken air con, and vile food.
And the train was rubbish, slow, broken air con, and vile food.
I bet it was full though eh?
Don't even mention public transport, it is useless - I would know I use everyday to go everywhere, since I don't have a car [i]yet[/i]
I have already said what needs to be done.
Since atm there is no viable alternative to using a car to get about in this country.
Trains pphah! chances you'll be stuck in the same traffic on a rail replacement service 🙄
Owning a car is costly enough, increasing tax will not change anything apart from making peoples lives a misery.
Absolutely rammed, it's amazing that a service so heavily used. With such high fares can be so badly delivered.
I wasn't talking about increasing total tax, I was talking about changing it, Crazy Legs has got it. And I like his petrol pump idea.
Far too many people are making journeys by car which are totally unnecessary. In my office for example we have car users who drive 2 miles, 2miles from a different direction, 2 miles from the same place as the second person (why don't they share?!) and 1.5 miles. I ride 8 miles and one gets the bus 15 miles becasue she doesn't have a car.
I have raced one of the 2 mile people home to his house, me running, him driving. Guess who won?
We need to get people to stop making these journeys, in a way that doesn't just stop the poorer people doing it leaving the roads clear for the wealthy. It is just lazyness, people would rather sit in traffic for 30 minutes than walk for 20. I just don't understand them.
.
I still think carbon rationing is the way to go.
Place snipers on bridges and give 'em a die. They roll every minute. They get a six, clip a driver.
I think there might be quite a few people who commute more than 2 miles
You're gonna have a hard time getting that chubster I work with push biking to work 30 miles a day
I'm happy to run or bike to work, I doubt the majority are though.
But really..
I bet 30-40% of people on the road just sit at a desk when they get to work. Haven't they got a desk at home? Get them one. There you go, they can work from home now. It's so frigging obviously it defies belief.
I stood in amazement at the fact the have closed the hard shoulder for 8? miles.
the hard shoulder of the M62 is shut from J25 (brighouse) to J29 (M1), with average speed cameras & a 50mph limit too. but it chocca with traffic most days and a lot of accidents (seemingly between J26&J27 mostly, there have been 2 major accidents eastbound in the last 7 days and at least one west bound in the same period)
as traffic gets worse slowly over time society is always re-adjusting to the new normal congestion hence ppl will always to a degree remain happy to sit in their car listen to tunes and moan about everyone else causing the traffic. In the case of the OP and all those in a similar position the logical step is smaller patches, shorter working hours and a form of job share so your company can cover the workload nationally with more ppl for the same cost but could you / would you say halve your pay / working week to deliver your job / service in a more sustainable way (id guess the answer is no), same goes for most ppl, avoid the rush hour by staggering start times but no one would take a 2am start time etc, etc.. so mankind will continue embracing the motor car regadless.. much like the DR Who episode with ppl stuck in a traffic jam that had not ever moved..
as for the prior mentioned carbon rationing, how would a weeks biking trip to the highlands be justifiable for a holiday if you live 400miles away when compared to someone needing to drive 20miles by car to work every day ?
are you 100% sure you would have enough ration stamps..
I see what you're saying, makes sense.
I have raced one of the 2 mile people home to his house, me running, him driving. Guess who won?
Yes but they didn't arrive all hot and sweaty. That being the argument against bikes/running.
It is just lazyness, people would rather sit in traffic for 30 minutes than walk for 20. I just don't understand them.
Most people will object to walking because of the weather, I'm fine with a bit of rain - just water. But others will whinge.
Lots of good suggestions for how to fix traffic in general.
How to fix specific personal traffic problems, if relocating/telecommuting is impossible, is less wheels.
My company employs over a thousand people who just sit in front of a computer, answer the phone and follow prompts on a screen. I can make that happen in their house. Really easily, securely and cheaply.
But then the supervisors can't watch them.
I can give them software that allows them to watch them.
Nope.
A thousand commuters off the roads. But it's more important we keep our beady eye right on them physically. Cock off! Big picture people, I'm giving it to you.
Working in Logistics, it's easy to see a requirement for somebody to actually be there.
I'd be interested to hear just how many people could work from home(any statistics?), additionally what would the negative implications be. There is a significant social aspect in going to work, especially when talking about the unwashed masses who enjoy some damn fine banter in the workplace. Personally I do not like to socialise with people from work, but many do (e.g. the post shift pint)
Would we be at risk of damaging social structures by inhibiting peoples ability to meet other people through the workplace?
I think I'd miss calling someone a "stupid **** halfwit *" to there face.
piemonster - Member
Working in Logistics, it's easy to see a requirement for somebody to actually be there.I'd be interested to hear just how many people could work from home(any statistics?), additionally what would the negative implications be. There is a significant social aspect in going to work, especially when talking about the unwashed masses who enjoy some damn fine banter in the workplace. Personally I do not like to socialise with people from work, but many do (e.g. the post shift pint)
Would we be at risk of damaging social structures by inhibiting peoples ability to meet other people through the workplace?
It's not just socialising after work, it's just interacting with people through the day that I missed. It's very depressing. Plus there's the [url=
to think about.
Culture needs to change so working from home is the norm - many of those people sat in cars every day don't need to drive to an office to use a pc and phone.
I apprecaite some jobs can't be done on this basis, but many can and enough to make a big diffence to traffic and pollution levels.
I think I'd miss calling someone a "stupid **** halfwit *" to there face.
The ironing!
Plus there's the ****ing to think about.
I thought "working from home" was an euphemism for ****ing
Call centres are a great example. Large groups of people, they are monitored at work not by a human but by a computer so their response rates, responses, activity and handling speed are all logged away and analysed. If they all work from home the monitoring doesn't change in the slightest. They can't bunk off although they can work in the nude.
They can, using this method, look after children, elderly people and not be a fire hazard if they're in a wheelchair or are otherwise physically disabled. In fact, this is an excellent way of providing employment for people who struggle to leave the house for whatever reason.
Obviously there is a downside. We now have to heat and power a thousand houses through the day rather than one office.
You can't just whack up the prices. It'll cause hell with people's lives. You'll suddenly get people who were just making ends meet having to move jobs or move, either of which can be very difficult.
The thing with a car that's different to most other modes of transport is that it's a very large initial outlay to buy the thing but then the costs just tick by almost unnoticed unless you're faced with a particularly large garage bill. Fuel is £20 here and there, insurance goes out monthly by direct debit - car tax is the only big yearly outlay.
So most people have no idea how much their journey costs them. It's effectively "free" - I can drive 500 miles and apart from having an empty tank when I get there, the journey has cost me nothing upfront so it's [b]perceived[/b] as free (it obviously isn't, but that's the perception).
Contrast that with the bus/train etc where you need to stump up the cash every day and can see it disappearing and you've got nothing to show for it other than you managed to turn up at your destination within a few hours of when the train company promised.
So the road pricing idea works on a number of levels cos it forces people to think about the individual cost of that journey. Cut fuel duty, cut "road tax" (I'm using the term ironically, I know it's VED) and get that money instead by road pricing. Large costs for short journeys at peak times in the city. Very low costs for rural journeys/non-peak time/motorways etc. And a cheap, reliable public transport system to encourage something other than car use.
Live close to where you work.
And your wife works. And your kid(s) go to school(s).
Stop going to so many meetings.
SOME people need to change their attitude regarding this, but IME it's not usually them actually going to the meeting!
At my old job, they told a huge load of people that their new place of work was 2 hours drive away. I told them to shove it. Some folks who felt less confident and with families to support couldn't. They now suffer that commute for the sake of not uprooting their families.
Just another example of how commuting by car ain't necessarily a selfish pursuit. (Disclosure: I cycled and walked for 11 yrs, currently use a small motorbike, and have no wife or kids.)
A cull. There are too many people on such a small island who all want cars, more roads will result in more cars.
Exactly. Too many people breeding like rats. There are no such thing as traffic jams, climate change, habitat destruction etc, they are simply a result of overpopulation. 80 f*cking million of us parasites every year yet the moron public and media think turning the lights off for an hour once a year or buying recycled sh*t rag will make everything okay.
Road pricing is an stupid idea.
Its eletist and means the rich get to travel on clearer roads while the poor sit in jams. At least fuel duty and VED means everyone pays the same. Maybe road pricing should be means tested! 😯
Any sort of increase in road pricing has to be combined with a viable, cheaper alternative, otherwise its just a tax on jobs.
Nottingham have tried a novel scheme taxing businesses based on the number of parking spaces a business has. But its bollocks, the business just pass the costs on to employees as parking fees or reduced wages, but once the employee has effecively paid for their parking space then even if they would cycle maybe a couple of days a week or during the summer they won't as since they have paid for a space they may as well use it.
Annecdotally, since they have introcued the scheme the congestion seems to have got worse. I'd love to see the official stats.
Road pricing is an stupid idea.Its eletist and means the rich get to travel on clearer roads while the poor sit in jams. At least fuel duty and VED means everyone pays the same. Maybe road pricing should be means tested!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18064363
The pdf article is very good.
Absolutely rammed, it's amazing that a service so heavily used. With such high fares can be so badly delivered.
Exactly. These are the people who aren't paying their own fares. So the idea is to charge them a lot to subsidise the people who do have to pay their own fares ie leisure travellers.
The fact that everyone wants to be somewhere for 9am and leave at 5pm is a massive problem for transport logistics, obviously.
The best Mon-Fri shift I've had was 11am to 7pm.
Get up, couple of hours on the bike/run. Bike to work, home for tea and time for the pub and much better traffic.
Used to do a 4 days on/off shift, bloody loved that. Never commuted in a rush hour and still got a 37.5hr week. And always had long weekends. Loved it. Didn't start until 10am so still had time for a bike/run pre-work. It was barely a mile to commute(along a quiet country lane) as well, I'd often walk it.
it's amazing that a service so heavily used. With such high fares can be so badly delivered.
Not really. Poor customer service and doing the absolute minimum required is one thing that Britain does really well.
Also, when you've got a captive audience and no real competition why bother spending money on improving things?
Poor customer service and doing the absolute minimum required is one thing that Britain does really well.
Haha.. not been to the US then?
I seem to recall that the majority of car journeys are less than 5 miles...
Can't say I encounter much traffic on untarmacced roads.
I seem to recall that the majority of car journeys are less than 5 miles...
Some guff from Sustrans here:
Some more guff from officialdom here:
Between 1995/97 and 2010, overall trips rates fell by 12%. Trips by private modes of transport fell by 14% while public transport modes increased by 8%. Walking trips saw the largest decrease.
To andrewh's point. The main drawback of any Time of Use plan is that it effectively prices out the poor, and will probably reverse any glimmer of social mobility we have in this country!
Renationalise the railways?
According to news reports out today, since privatisation we've tipped £28 billion into a black hole full of extortionate season tickets, horrible sandwiches and crap bicycle storage.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20440937
To andrewh's point. The main drawback of any Time of Use plan is that it effectively prices out the poor, and will probably reverse any glimmer of social mobility we have in this country!
Have a read of this that I linked to earlier.
<
WHOA there Crazy-legs
Im to lazy to walk to the shop, let alone do some reading.
25 pages, bloody war n peace or something