Tips for Enduro/DH training

Some advice please!

Had an educational day out today where “there’s always someone faster” couldn’t be more true. Riding with a new partner who does a fair bit of racing, I was stronger on the ascents but considerably slower on the descents. While I doubt I’ll catch my new buddy, I was totally fatigued by the last descent and the end of the ride. I’d been out yesterday and have been off the bike because of the lurgy, but these are just fitness excuses.

So, non-gym exercises (but have dumbells) and workouts (on/off bike) appreciated. A few interesting sites out there (not least Greg Minaar’s workout), but what’s working for you?

Look at the James Wilson webnsite.

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Basically says the same at GM that physically riding isn’t the best way to train for that kind of riding. But has a bit more detail about what you should do.

Just getting technically better will conserve a lot of energy as well, so don’t discount working on your skills and sessioning sections and obstacles you think you should improve at.

Also interested in this, as I’ve got reasonably fit but could do with being able to hang onto the bike better and improve my explosive power.

Greg Minnaar feature is very interesting but dates from 2008, so it’s probably 26″ specific.

+1 for bike James. I’ve been following his training since late last year and the improvements are significant. It takes discipline and commitment but its well worth it.

Go on a skills course, having the right techniques on the descents will help you catch you mate better than strength and fitness, although they will help you ride for longer.

Bikejames is a good site

In terms of gym work I would start by building up strength then when you have a good base switch to strength endurance. For strength endurance I do escalating density training.

Also do some yoga the very pleasant Abi Carter has dome some articles and videos for Pink Bikes.

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/short-yoga-routine-lower-back-pain-2015.html
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/15-minute-yoga-routine-to-enhance-balance-and-agility-2015.html

When going for rides don’t think just about the distance but also the quality of the ride. Better to do a shorter ride and smash it than just pootle for 70km on a sunny Sunday.

Try and hit your local DH tracks on a regular basis doesn’t have then a mammoth session just keeping your skills sharp and building confidence.

If your are doing Enduro races you should look at your nutrition as well can probably help with energy levels over a weekends riding.

Look at the James Wilson webnsite.

It’s just me that finds his tone insufferably patronising then?

It’s just me that finds his tone insufferably patronising then?

No, not just you.

I listened to one of his podcasts… just the one.

I don’t know that I find him patronizing, but there is way too much self advertising to wade through, it is quite American in that. He is right about laying a foundation in the gym for bike fitness, but once you have taken the basics from his site I think you can quickly move on and do your own thing.

Time spent on your bike riding; not in the gym; will make you faster.

davidtaylforth – Member
Time spent on your bike riding; not in the gym; will make you faster.

You better tell the pros they are doing it wrong.

fr0sty125 – Member
davidtaylforth – Member
Time spent on your bike riding; not in the gym; will make you faster.
You better tell the pros they are doing it wrong.

Are you a pro? Is the OP a pro? Why’s it relevant what the pros do?

Time spent on your bike riding; not in the gym; will make you faster.

You do realise its entirely possible to do both?

You do realise its entirely possible to do both?

I can’t see how. Surely the only reason the pro’s go the gym is because they’re sick to death of riding their bikes every waking hour.

For those that are in full time employment; I can’t see how you’d possibly manage to fit in gym time.

davidtaylforth, while i agree that time on the bike makes you a better rider, developing power and endurance in the gym over the winter has transformed the way i ride.

I followed one of James Wilson’s programs and got a lot out of it initially. Then this winter i was in touch with Chris Kilmurray who coaches a lot of pros and decided to try his program for a while. I am doing TransProvence this year and i wanted to train specifically for enduro races and multi day events.
As with James Wilson a lot of it is gym based as he believes that strength is the building block to endurance.

Now i do not know much about the training side of life outside of my own experience but applying strength and flexibility training to my schedule has definitely improved my riding no end. I have much more stamina on longer rides, i feel much stronger when i am tired and trying to ride harder trails.

As i said this is just my own experience but strength and flexibility training has been of enormous benefit to me.

And no i don’t think the pro’s go to the gym because they are bored riding their bikes. Thats just weird.

Oh yeh, no doubt it helps. Fact is, if you’re on fairly limited time training; it’s better spent on the bike (providing you’re not just riding round a trail centre)

Very true but nobody mentioned being time crunched before you did 😀

You know what they say; “assumption is the mother of all **** ups!” 😀

Time spent on your bike riding; not in the gym; will make you faster.

I’d argue that time spent training (and not just riding) will make you faster. The question is, what’s the most efficient way of doing it.

From the sounds of it the OP is reasonably quick up hill (assuming his mate who races a bit is a decent rider, and not bottom 3rd fodder) but could do with working on his DH skills.

We know that upping his endurance levels will help with that as he’s already said he was knackered by the end of the ride, but it sounds like there could be a lot of ‘free’ time to be gained by focusing on becoming more efficient and quicker on the DH parts. Some skills coaching and actually training yourself to pick out faster lines, corner better etc will make you faster without needing to spend lots of time in the gym.

DirtSchool do fit by bike training plans. I think they are £20. I have the race fit one which I’m trying to follow. It’s fairly intense but I’m seeing dividends. The other thing I’ve looked at is Joe Friel’s stuff on heart rate training. I’d recommend both.

Essentially you need to grow the heart muscle to build endurance as this means the heart can pump more blood around the body with each beat and therefore beats slower so ensuring you last longer before getting tired or exhausted (the heart beats faster as you start to tire).

Building cardio fitness is probably not how you think. A lot of it is simply down to heart rate zone training, E.g. At least 2 rides a week at heart rate zone 2 for 2 hours non-stop, which would include climbs and descents. You also need to build in intervals for explosive power when it’s needed. Both of these can be done on or off the bike depending on your preference.

IME spin classes aren’t great for Enduro type training as they are mostly intervals although they do seriously build fitness. Personally I find them insanely boring and would rather be on the bike outside.

In terms of technique, going out of your comfort zone definitely helps. I spent last weekend riding a steep, rocky and rooty downhill track (BUCS at Innerleithen if anyone’s interested) on my 150mm hardtail. This week I’ve found all the local trails a lot easier and I’m carrying a lot more speed(scientific merits of Strava debatable).

For those that are in full time employment; I can’t see how you’d possibly manage to fit in gym time.

Time required to do 60 minutes of weights: 90 minutes maximum.
Time required to do 60 minutes mountain biking: 3 hours minimum.

That’s the maths for me, where I live, anyway. I love riding my bike, and hate gym time. But I struggle to find 3 spare waking hours in most days (certainly not daylight ones), so a bit of gym is a lot better than nowt.

🙂

Cheers all. Reality is I’m not committed enough to get down the gym, but more than happy to put the work in at home. Had a poke around the James Wilson site and will download some of the free stuff. I have a fair bit of time for riding (~10 mid-week, inc. roadie) and can do a few more hours on weights/non-bike workouts. Stamina, flexibility and “explosive” power seems to be where it’s at.

I definitely could step up it on mtb riding time as I’ve been off the bike for a couple of weeks, but am blessed by having a v.quiet DH spot nearby. A few more hours up there required methinks. Really makes a difference in fluidity out on regular trails. Definitely scope for technique improvement and I certainly wasn’t riding as smooth as normal as I was fatigued. This said, there were many earlier sections where mate’s technique was better (him fluid/me braking and consequently pedalling hard).

My reason for posting was that I was surprised how quick fatigue came on. I was riding strong and then levels just dropped, and I was hanging on. I thought I was reasonably quick downhill (normally waiting for local riding buddies), but good to have my backside served on a plate. Makes you realise how relative all of this is when you ride with the really quick folk.

Makes you realise how relative all of this is when you ride with the really quick folk.

Amen to that. 🙂

For road riding, the nature of the activity is very specific and just being on the bike is the best way to train, although most will add in alittle other activities to stave off the bio mechanical issues that can result from doing nothing but cycling.
For xc riding, most will add in a little gym work, recognising the need for some upper body strengh and movement required for the technical aspects.
Enduro is again getting a fair bit more technical, the movement and upper body strength required to keep going on long technical downhill stretches is surprising, the work done building grinding oput miles on road and xc bikes is a completely different kind of fitness and to improve and cope with the physical challenge then some weekly gym time is a must.
For downhill a considerable amount of non cycling training is required.

But that is just for the physical aspects, riding a bike is more fun, unfortunately it does become a lot less fun when you are too knackered to do it well.

OP – Thought about the mental aspect on the ride that prompted this?

Haven’t a clue what you’re like, but worst case you could have been turning up stressed going out with someone new, keen to impress, burnt yourself out on the first climb, first descent, going in tight, gets dropped, gets even tighter, everything is hard work now with all the tightness, tightness creating mistakes making everything 10X harder work, whilst you’re feeling beaten because you keep on getting dropped with no visual effort from your buddy.

Maybe you’re already there, but just having a tight day?

In terms of instant power, pump tracks, BMX tracks and doing entire rides standing should quite easily get you somewhere a lot more powerful, no gym involved and a lot more fun, o yea and writing off the easiest gear you have for the occasional ride. This is the sort of stuff i grew up on, but don’t do so much any more, but still when i’m out with exceptionally fit, strong people, i still keep managing to match/exceed them on the instant power front much to my disbelief, it has to come from somewhere, i blame the BMX background and riding out of the saddle a lot more than most.

Ha, not 100% off the mark, and yeah I was wondering how the day was going to go, although I’m not quite as neurotic as you suggest 😉 I was just going at normal pace on the climbs and backed off later so not to be an arse. Things definitely tight though so causing mistakes. Being mindful of standing more a good tip.

For those that are in full time employment; I can’t see how you’d possibly manage to fit in gym time.

Full time employment, and no kids. Loads of time. My week looks like

Monday – 1 hour strength training
Tuesday – An hour of interval work on the turbo
Wednesday – 1 hour strength training
Thursday – An hour of interval work on the turbo or a couple of hours on the bike
Friday – 1 hour strength training
Saturday – 2-3 hour easy paced ride
Sunday – 4-5 hour race pace ride

That James Wilson stuff is truly awful.

I work full time.

In the summer I ride 4 times a week, hit the gym 3 days a week and try and do yoga every morning or evening.

In winter it is more like 2 rides a week and 5 times in the gym.

That James Wilson stuff is truly awful

In your opinion

If yo’re time-limited and want to train on the bike, I reckon the best thing you can do is to get a single-speed.

I ride DH very occasionally, the only time I’ve been strong enough to ride top to bottom at fort William without stopping was after I’d been riding mostly SS for a few months.

You spend the whole time standing up, which gives you the strength you need to stay stood up on the bike when it gets rough on the descents. And wrenching yourself up the hills is great for your over-all core strength and arm strength too. All that strength training and you get to ride your bike at the same time too!

I got talked into starting a MTB specific strength & conditioning course run by one of Peaty’s coaches. Wasn’t convinced beforehand, but I have to say it’s been worthwhile.

The mobility stuff is excellent – that made an immediate difference. I’m much looser on the bike when cornering. I do a fair bit of stretching anyway, but this has added quite heavily to that.

The weights side of things is taking longer to come through, but now it’s getting drier and grippier, I’m aware that I can be much more brutal with the bike – I can corner (much) harder, I’ve got more pop, etc. I’m also aware day to day that my core strength is massively better, and that can only be a good thing.

In terms of pedalling, I’m not sure if I’m stronger or not. I seem to have gained about 1mph average speed on my roadie, but I’ve also changed to a new bike at the same time, with lower spinnier gears.

If you’re time-limited and want to train on the bike, I reckon the best thing you can do is to get a single-speed.

A very STW perspective! 🙂 You’re right though, I have a SS for local jaunts and it definitely gives you a full workout. A bit much for me on my knee to be a very regular bike (many N.Wales hills pretty steep).

Jon, when you mention mobility stuff, can you give examples?

Ha ha, yeah I suppose it is, though it wasn’t particularly meant to be. Just my experience of when I was best able to hustle a bike down a hill and why. I wasn’t riding SS exclusively, maybe 2-3 times a week. I’d guess once a week would be enough, but might take a few months longer to get the full benefit.

I can’t see I’ll ever have enough spare time that weights and stretching can be added in without ride time dropping, which will then slow me more than the weights etc would speed me up. And although I have a decent setup in my workshop for indoor training, it’s got nothing on real riding in the countryside!

In terms of technique, going out of your comfort zone definitely helps. I spent last weekend riding a steep, rocky and rooty downhill track (BUCS at Innerleithen if anyone’s interested) on my 150mm hardtail. This week I’ve found all the local trails a lot easier and I’m carrying a lot more speed

Yep, its one of the reasons i keep a HT in fine fettle….take it somewhere like BPW, try to chase down the DH lads, ride beyond myself, learn some new stuff….come home and then ride my local trails much better/faster.

Gym time works, bodyweight exercises, core strengthening stuff etc can do wonders.
It doesnt take much time either.

In an extreme abbreviated routine i can be in and out in less than an hour having covered: deadlifts, chins/pull-ups, benchpress, dips, some kind of shoulder exercise, some abdominal work….arms almost get done accidently as the levers involved in exercises like dips and benchpress (triceps) and chins/pull-ups (biceps)….thats a total body workout using mainly free weights and bodyweight type training….in the summer when i want to ride more i’ll do this once a week.

In the winter when i ride less i split the gym sessions into two so one is a day where i use my pulling muscle groups: deadlifts, chins, rows, bicep curls.

Second session i train my pushing muscle groups: benchpress, dips, shoulder presses, triceps.

Abdominal/core/oblique stuff can be tagged onto the end of either or both sessions….crucially i’m in and out in about 45 mins each time….easy.

Train smarter not longer.

I still stand by what I say. You’ve gotta practice your tekkers; no amount of benchpresses will stop you getting pwned by some scrawny 14 year old who can ride a bike properly.

Although the OP may be a shit hot rider already?

fr0sty125 – Member

I work full time.

In the summer I ride 4 times a week, hit the gym 3 days a week and try and do yoga every morning or evening.

In winter it is more like 2 rides a week and 5 times in the gym.

I take it youre not a family man and single then ?.

Although the OP may be a shit hot rider already?

Depends how small the pond is! 😆

In my opinion going fast DH is about 2 things – physical ability & confidence.

I raced DH last year for the first time & did OK, was in the bottom half of my class (bottom third overall) in general. Training was quite a bit of running, me & a mate doing a bit at the local gym for the masses & a few uplift days. Through the winter I joined a gym in a unit with a proper trainer. Usually manage 4-5 times a week doing everything from circuits to core to boxing. It’s a proper workout for an hour & I’m riding much faster than I was at this point last year, probably the fastest I’ve ever been (still waiting for results from my first race of the year – this weekend’s SDA at Ae).

As I feel physically stronger I’m getting more confident.