Thinking about a Trek Rail, 500w slightly older version, Gen2 Bosch

https://www.blazingbikes.co.uk/index.php/trek-rail-5-deore-500w-2022-electric-mountain-bike.html

One of these…

Bit of logic is that my local riding mate will be getting an Eeb soon, he’s mid-60’s and it’s getting to be time for it.. I still feel Eeb rides and manual rides are not massively compatible, even if the manual guy is fitter.

But there’s other little things like BPW, i can take the lad and save myself £30+ per day at BPW by Eebing it up instead of uplifting… i can’t/won’t ride the same trails as him anyway as he’s only riding blacks, so we don’t really gain much from being on the uplift together. Things like FoD where we spend every Weds evening i could session more runs in the time we have. Races like Pearce races i could scoot up the other trails to the top so i could watch/video in different places.

However, this is where it now goes slightly negative, the context that i’ve never really got along with an Eeb in terms of riding, it’s fine, it’s OK, but the Rail is a full fat older one and weighs a chunk, which isn’t always a factor, but in terms of how they ride i’m not massively a fan.. I rode a mates one in the Peaks last year or so ago, which i quite enjoyed but not in tighter twisty stuff.
We’re up in the PEaks this weekend and my local mate is hiring one the same as this (may be the 625w battery) and i may have a trail or two on it (i’m on the wifes Liv Embolden)

A minor worry is that i’d end up never riding the Slayer any more, lol, but i don’t think that’ll be the case. However it does take longer currently to start feeling human again after a Southern Enduro race weekend for example, i’m still aching today from it.

I’m not actually sure what the question is above…but there’s a few bits of info to pick through i guess 😀

I’ve had a quick go on a Cube full fat mtb with maybe a 700mah battery or something like that. On eco the thing felt ludicrously fast so can only imagine what it’d be like on turbo etc.

It did feel biblically heavy though – I wonder if on steep tech they can feel like a runaway train?

For shuttling the full fat makes sense but with a big battery – but if it ended up replacing the slayer to some extent I’d be inclined to get something half fat with an extender battery for longer days. It’s ludicrously expensive but the new Trek EXE or Transition Relay type things appeal to me.

I don’t want to go completely bonkers in terms of price/cost… hence me generally not looking at the Lite style. Although i was looking at this Scott Ransom too
https://www.blazingbikes.co.uk/index.php/bikes/ebike-bikes/scott-ransom-eride-920-2023-electric-bike.html

Mostly because it’s on 0% and i’d rather have a 0% than spending our own money in a lump…

As a chunk of my riding is also with my boy, i don’t think it’d fully replace the Slayer… plus i do like the lighter feel rather than the Star Destroyer feel of an Eeb. One of the lads out on Sat in Peaks has an Orbea lite type which i could persuade him to bring too, or to BPW on Mon as we’re both there… He’s also got a 625w rail but that’s in an XL with daft high bars and felt horrific to me. I’m going to take the Liv out later locally, partly for some ‘hmmmm’ but also because when i took it out last week to go to the shops, it died 4 times and i want to see if i can work out if it’s faulty or was just because it’s sat in the garage for 5 months without being touched.

Been riding Turbo Levos since 2017 and still get out on a regular basis on the Enduro and Stumpy. I cant say I notice the extra weight of it when I’m out on the trails.

I cant comment on the bikes in the link as have never ridden them. The bike that gets the least use in the garage compared to the others is the Levo SL

You could pick up a Specialized with 20% off in S3 and S4 sizes at the moment which puts them between you two prices in the links so don’t rule them out as back up is first class if you needed it and they do have a transferable warranty.

The Orbea rise does look good but read a lot of bad stuff about Shimano motors at the moment. Apparently you can wait weeks and weeks for a replacement and they’re not at all reputable as Shimano won’t provide any replacement parts.

Specialized seem to have the warranty / backup thing sorted. I think Bosch are generally pretty good too – the guy whose Cube it was, was on his 2nd motor and said it was replaced within days of going wrong.

You could pick up a Specialized with 20% off in S3 and S4 sizes at the moment which puts them between you two prices in the links so don’t rule them out as back up is first class if you needed it and they do have a transferable warranty

Not with any decent sort of finance deals i’ve seen… it’s not a complete deal breaker, but deffo my preference to use either a 0% or low race finance. Deffo not 19.9% lol..

I reckon I was at a similar teetering stage as you when I got mine a couple of years ago.

I’d ridden with a mate who had one but with me on my mtb for maybe two years before I considered getting one myself, and then I only really did because a lot of my riding mates started getting them too.

I considered a Rise at the time but the non removable battery and shed storage didn’t sit well, so I ended up getting a Wild Fs.

Loads of fun at first. Absolute weapon of a bike. Brilliant for uplift type riding and big tours of non official riding everywhere.
I think when you first get one you’re seduced by the assistance and ride in the higher modes.

As a consequence, when I went back to riding my fatbike along the canal, I literally had to stop a couple of times as I thought it had something wrong with it. 😂

I don’t really like how it did that for me and so I started to change the emphasis of how I used it. Instead of out and out power, I changed the emphasis to time spent out and distance in the lower modes. It’s still there if I want a blast of a power hour but mostly I ride it in eco mode, sometimes Tour and I find that riding like that means less of a shock when you get back on an MTB.
Also, most riding pals have now got lightweight eebs and so I’m more matched to them. All I need is self control 😊

I think like you, I had the worry that it would stop me riding the bikes that I loved before, and it did, at least in that honeymoon period. But I think enjoying an eeb and enjoying regular bikes are not mutually exclusive.

I’ve just bought a new hardtail and am absolutely loving it. I swear it feels like it’ll float away it’s so light, and it’s not even a light one by traditional standards.

I have fallen out of love with the eeb for sure. It is too heavy basically and that does affect the feel. I miss the poppyness and zing of a regular bike.
If you’re pinning it on steep and sustained downhill trails, it feels amazing, but it needs gradient badly.
Also, I’ve never been and never will be an xc whippet or great climber, but I have to admit that the sense of achievement I’d always get from conquering a climb or a decent ride started to go missing on the eeb.
Of course, that’s not always the focus of a ride but I definitely don’t choose this bike for more xc type riding, especially with Stiles!

A lot of the top sections of trails at BPW for example are quite frustrating as they are very pedally and you very quickly hit the limiter and then hit the effort wall.
Regular bikes are way better in that scenario.
But there are compromises in everything and for me, not be paying for and being stuck on the uplift bus is easily worth it. As soon as things start pointing downhill, the bike is incredible.

I think one could make sense for you with that racing aspect etc and I don’t think you’ll not ride your other bikes again. You just need to hang on through the honeymoon period, though mind you, you’re pretty well used to riding that Liv I suppose.

But yeah, for me, the weight is starting to become a bit of a turn off and hence my ebike is the bike that I ride the least currently. That might change, might not. All good.

The fact that you’re spending a lot of time at race venues anyway, it makes sense I think.

though mind you, you’re pretty well used to riding that Liv I suppose.

Not quite sure on that… i think i’ve only used it 5-6 times.

Give Sigma a ring they are showing 0% option under the price of the discounted ones

https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Specialized/Turbo-Levo-Comp-Alloy-Electric-Mountain-Bike-2023/X5EZ?utm_source=google&utm_medium=base&co=GBR&cu=GBP&glCountry=GB&id=1546672&ds_eid=700000001845766&ds_e=GOOGLE&ds_c=UK_EN_Profit_Google_Shopping_All+Users_Smart_Bikes%26Frames&ds_cid=71700000088556548&ds_ag=Ad+group&ds_agid=58700007489216342&ds_k=PRODUCT_GROUP&ds_kid=92700071244817369&ds_kids=p71244817369&gclid=CjwKCAjw9J2iBhBPEiwAErwpeTmaB8AJnyOQmBP_4Xkfbn_Sk7Xmiq8Zj-u9L3_4CjDpGly2u0UWVBoCeDwQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Specialized/Turbo-Levo-Alloy-Electric-Mountain-Bike-2023/X5E3?utm_source=google&utm_medium=base&co=GBR&cu=GBP&glCountry=GB&id=1546642&ds_eid=700000001845766&ds_e=GOOGLE&ds_c=UK_EN_Profit_Google_Shopping_All+Users_Smart_Bikes%26Frames&ds_cid=71700000088556548&ds_ag=Ad+group&ds_agid=58700007489216342&ds_k=PRODUCT_GROUP&ds_kid=92700071244817369&ds_kids=p71244817369&gclid=CjwKCAjw9J2iBhBPEiwAErwpebFdcah_vlWSXdbvoCIcWGV-LlwHEs4Z9UXUaDwr8yR4flmyIkNXFBoCS-wQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

What size are you after, Tredz have some decent priced once in their nearly new section, like this one which has 10% off the discount price just now and they do credit https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Nukeproof-Megawatt-297-Comp-Nearly-New-L-2022-Electric-Mountain-Bike_262183.htm

Large.

Must admit, i’m not a Nukeproof fan generally and that one isn’t helping me come over to their side either.

But thanks for looking/replying.

I think there’s some sense to the smaller battery for that use case, and have a spare for something like a full day of shuttling at BPW. Certainly on Shimano you save about 650g with the smaller battery, and I find 500Wh fine for the usual few hours of riding.

The Vitus E-Sommets are still cheap at CRC, I have the lowest spec one and super happy with it. It feels like it’s made of lead when you’re moving it around the garage but all good on the move. Love having big grippy tyres and lots of suspension without feeling like a chore to ride uphill.

I have a few mates with the Orbea Rise, they like how it rides if you’re concerned with weight but I think all of them have needed new motors now.

3 years 0%

Sorted

https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Specialized-Turbo-Kenevo-SL-Comp-Carbon-2022-Electric-Mountain-Bike_243220.htm

The Trek will be hefty, so annoying to get over obstacles or up a slippy hill, yes they are a pain in twisty stuff at times, i use mine in the same places like FoD, and the tighter, twistier tracks can slow you down as it’s not as easy to lighten up the back and pull the bike around, flip side is that it’s a hell of a lot more stable over jumps and drops with landings, so any jump section stuff it just eats up.

I just find the ebike has its place, just keep up using the manual as well, which again has it’s place.

That’s a much older version. Bosch are on Gen 4 motor now and have been for three years. I wouldn’t be buying anything that didn’t have the current version of any company’s motor.

I used mine loads to start with but the use slowed down and I mostly use it for rides where I know I’m going to do laps of somewhere, much like your idea. They are harder work on the downhills though and not sure I’d use it somewhere there was an uplift. You can buy an awful lot of uplifts for £4k. If you are mega brave and have no fear, the stability they carry at speed in phenomenal. I sometimes find it a bit much though and am constantly trying to slow it down to my comfort zone. Also always amazed how light and nimble my 35lb enduro bike feels after riding it, just so much easier to move around and pop off things. Depends how you like to ride.

That’s a much older version. Bosch are on Gen 4 motor now and have been for three years. I wouldn’t be buying anything that didn’t have the current version of any company’s motor.

The motors are the same in the CX4, it’s mostly hardware controllers that have changed (Purion to Kiox, to Smart system) & battery size has risen.

Having done the liteweight ebike thing & found them mostly pointless, I have been back on a full fat one for a while (ironically a Rail, but a Gen4 bike).

I’m a fan of them, they offer enough of a different ride experience to a normal bike & you can bash out laps of the same trail at a much faster rate which is great for skills development.

There are enough videos of people riding the wheels off e-bikes now to show the weight isn’t really an issue, it’s a riding ability thing. Getting laps will help that massively.

A 500wh battery on a Bosch I think will do you ~1500m of vert in Eco (depending on your weight) and less in more power modes. The Bosch system is pretty frugal with its battery use. I still maintain despite the ugliness of its controllers in the past, the motor/battery is the best on the market as a package. The new stuff now cements that.

I’m happy with the Gen2 side of things and a mate who’s had many Eebs says the Gen2 is perfect and the Rail is spot-on.

I’ve been out for a quick test on the Liv and again on the test ride it cut-out…. not sure why. It’s fully charged but the lights went out and power died.. it comes straight back and works fine again, so maybe a loose connection, but i’ll admit, i don’t know where to check on it. So i’ve put a bit of grip drawer lining at one place to see if it’s just the battery wiggling loose, if it’s not, then i’m not sure. I’ll take it to FoD tomorrow evening to test.

I may find that after this weekend i completely lose the desire anyway, it’s only this weekend with 2 Eeb based rides planned i started running this idea about my head.

The Trek Rail 5 is available to hire at Swinley, so you could try one for a day to see if it suits?

The Trek Rail 5 is available to hire at Swinley, so you could try one for a day to see if it suits?

Mate has a hire one this weekend at Peaks near/in Hope. So i can try his… At the end of the day, it’s a bike so it’ll be fun… but whether that means i should or shouldn’t…. i dunno lol.

They’re great as a second bike.

The weight isn’t an issue anywhere and You get more riding in. Don’t know what you rode before but newer ones with up to date geo and suspension are fine. And if there is a negative in tighter stuff, it’s small and more than made up for by being able to ride far more, far quicker.

Riding a manual bike after is no problem either. It’s still fun and doesnt feel terrible.

Look at the Vitus too. much better value.

Not with any decent sort of finance deals i’ve seen… it’s not a complete deal breaker, but deffo my preference to use either a 0% or low race finance. Deffo not 19.9% lol..

Get yourself a 0% credit card and go and see Rich at RaceCo, great service from the shop and a proper warranty.

Look at the Vitus too. much better value.

No thanks… i did a Vitus demo day… i wouldn’t have one if it were free 😀

you get used to teh weight. and you get stronger from it also the more you ride it. that said the large battery ones are bloody heavy. Mine is 22kg (375 battery) and i really noticed teh difference going to my mates yt with a 750 battery at 25+kg. you would get used to it but it will take longer. mine (2020 focus jam2) has a range extender for longer days but i like the lighter weight for local riding and messing about. Given i`m rarely out for a whole day the smaller battery is enough for me.

in terms of range i did a lap of both Cwmcarn xc loops on a 375 battery the other day – not skimping on assistance as it was pissing it down!

I never use boost and eco is on medium and trail is on the lowest assistance setting. (low eco you dont feel much benefit at all ideally i`d like a setting between the med and low). mines an e8000 so not as adjustable as the ep8

lapping out fod and similar is basically what they are designed for. An eeb is amazing at FOD. you just get loads more laps. even with a small battery you will get knackered.

I’m looking at getting a longer travel FS (i’ve an older 150 normal FS bike at the moment) to use as an uplift/alps bike park smasher (potentially even a DH bike) to save the eeb for non uplifted areas and local dh/jumps riding.

if your going to go for a full fat e-bike, i’d go for the bigger 630w trek rail personally, which there appear to be some good deal around on for not much more than the one you posted up. the bosch system seems fairly frugal on the battery (although there are reports of the new 750w/h system being less so), and as there little to no weight differnece, why not go for the biggest battery possible.

for waht it’s worth, i had a rail 9 for a couple of years (until it got nicked), replaced it with a levo gen 3 and personally think the levo is a better bike in pretty much every aspect than the rail. the rail was great for ploughing through rocky peak descents, but hard work on tighter tech stuff. the levo doesn’t give up anything on the descents but is a better handling bikes and better on the techy twisty stuff

@weeksy ref the Liv cut out: our gsd did this a few times. I traced the issue to the battery lock. Cleaned and adjusted it slightly and no problem since.

thanks @shedbrewed i’m currently looking into the same sort of thing… i’ve just cleaned up the connectors at the bottom/battery connection end… I’ll have a look at the top/lock end in a few mins when i start another update on a server 😀

Had a full fat eeb, never got on with it, felt like I was riding it with thick gloves and boots. There was no feel or subtlety to it, when it broke itself and got sent back, wen’t the lightweight route.

Had my KSL over a year, I’m not interested in blasting round, I just want to do another half again. Normal rides will be 4000ft, KSL is more like 6000ft, have pushed it out to 9000ft when in Golfie (basically two rides in a day with a lunchtime charge).

The KSL will get up all the hills, just not as quick as a full fat. Downhill its just better, bit of extra weight over a normal bike and a rear end thats pretty amazing, feels like riding a Demo downhill.

I’d never buy a second hand eeb, they will fail and you will need to use the warranty.

Another vote for Rich at Raceco cycles.
Their eBay shop have second hand ebikes and if I was buying second hand, then I would definitely get it from a shop with a good reputation.

Well the decision has hopeful become a little less pressing, i adjusted the locking mechanism to make it a tighter fit and took it for a couple of mile blast and it’s stayed on happily. It does mean i can try it this weekend and it be a little less hassle than borrowing a mates for 2 days and it’s arguably closer to the Rail than his lightweight Orbea.

I’m debating whether to take the eeb tomorrow to FoD and get in some extra runs of practice.

I’ve ridden FOD a few times on my Rail 9.9, you do get a lot of runs in. I’m from up north so I don’t know the off piste stuff, mainly just play on GBU and the others there.
The only time I’d swap it for my Capra is the top section of GBU where I’m probably doing around 20MPH, so the EEB is a slog.

My mate has an older Trek (not sure what Gen) and the Bosch motor makes a right racket compared to the almost silent Brose on my 2019 Spesh Kenevo

My mate has an older Trek (not sure what Gen) and the Bosch motor makes a right racket compared to the almost silent Brose on my 2019 Spesh Kenevo

I can promise you it’ll be quieter than the Yamaha in our Liv 😀 😀

There’s some confusion arising from the Blazing Bikes link; the Rail has only ever been produced with the Gen4 motor. It’s easy to tell the Gen2 and Gen4 motors apart as the Gen2 uses a 14T chainring and the Gen4 generally uses a 32T.

The Rail is a great bike, but it (and pretty much all FF eBikes IMHO) is a steamroller. I’ve also got a Kenevo SL and it is, for me, a far superior bike on the downs.

Raceco have interest free available on the discounted KSLs and some of the best customer service in the bike industry.

You’re welcome to try mine at FoD some time, although it’s a medium.

@doomanic you about tomorrow eve ? We’re there at 5 ?

No thanks… i did a Vitus demo day… i wouldn’t have one if it were free 😀

lmao. you’re hilarious. literally all the reviews by people who can actually ride a bike think they’re decent. And the spec is second to none for the cost. So the alternative is an older trek with a RS 35?! doesnt really matter, they’re all way more capable than you and the majority

@weeksy sorry bud, I don’t actually live there, it just seems like it some times. I’ll be there over the weekend though.

Ah, no worries, Peaks and BPW this weekend i’m afraid matey.

As for riding the Slayer, not sure on that one

When I got my Kenevo, I also had a YT Capra CF and a Production Privee Shan (26″ hardtail)

I ended up selling the Capra, as it was too similar to the Kenevo (weight and assistance aside) and kept the Shan. I do ride both still.

I may get another FS at some point, but I’ll want it to be considerably different to the Kenevo – maybe a 29’er, or skinny steel/titanium

Wotcha riding in the Peak weeksy? And when?

Absolutely no idea matey…. Meeting a mate at the garden/center/bike place Sat mornning in Hope, he’s planned the ride from there.. It’s a place i don’t know in the slightest, so honestly no clue as to where/what