The Tories – for those of us old enough to remember 1st hand

Surprised no-one's mentioned the Tories' abysmal record on crime…me, from t'BNP thread:

In fact, if you care to cast your beady eye over this PDF: http://rds.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs07/bcs25.pdf

You'll see that there's a long consistent rise in British Crime Survey crime between 1981 and 1995 (which are of course the years of Thatcherism) and then a long consistent fall since 1995. In other words, we're only just now getting back down to the level of crime under the penultimate Labour government and before Maggie **** it all up. So much for the Tories' claim to being tough on crime.

Just realised I said penultimate – should have said last, obviously.

Actually, I think he was saying that he would blame a sticky keyboard, but wasn't going to, as it was user error rather than faulty equipment.

Honest and sincere. A Tory would have carried on blaming the equipment…

Of course, he could have a sticky keyboard, we don't know that.

Mine is absolutely filthy. I could probably make a meal out of all the crumbs that have fallen inside it. I think I'll take it apart and clean it later.

Some suggest that high tax rates scare of the rich leaving the country poorer overall….

Financially worse off but society will benefit from losing such greedy selfish people.

"Walking alone through the picket line somewhat harder. Never fight a battle you can't win."
I'd rather live one day as a lion than a lifetime as a donkey. Oh, and cock off, you tory arse weasel 🙂

Financially worse off but society will benefit from losing such greedy selfish people.

So rich people are all greedy and selfish? Fantastic!

There was a series on the box recently about the Norman conquest. At the end of it they showed how William had divvied up the spoils between himself, the church and his nobles. That was a thousand years ago….. Unfortunately, the fact is that those spoils to a great extent remain in those self same hands or those of their direct descendants.

Like it or not, conservative with a small c means "One favoring traditional views and values." So a vote for Dave is likely to favour those at the top of the heap rather than the rest of us IMHO. Being Baronet Dave does suggest that he may have a vested interest in that view don't you think?

So rich people are all greedy and selfish?

No, just the ones who don't want to contribute. Hope that clears it up.

contribute to what?

Yawn.

Some suggest that high tax rates scare of the rich leaving the country poorer overall….

I think it would mainly be rich people suggesting that, but not all of them.

However, I don't care if higher taxes do scare off the rich and leave the country poorer overall (by which I guess you mean on average?), good riddance. Having rich people around doesn't help the poor, it just makes them feel poorer.

So we don't need entrepreneurs here? What's rich anyway?

So rich people are all greedy and selfish? Fantastic!

People who aren't happy just being very comfortably off are greedy and selfish, yup.

So rich people are all greedy and selfish? Fantastic!

Reading fail!

The ones that would baulk at paying high levels of tax (on that part of their income over and above the threshold) on income over £150k? and as a result leave the country.
Then yes I agree they could be termed "greedy and selfish"

So we don't need entrepreneurs here? What's rich anyway?

You think entrepreneurs start off rich?

You think most rich people are entrepreneurs?

The ones that would baulk at paying high levels of tax (on that part of their income over and above the threshold) on income over £150k? and as a result leave the country.

It's all shite anyway. Phil Collins said he'd **** off to Switzerland and he still hasn't.

Some suggest that high tax rates scare of the rich leaving the country poorer overall….

Evidence?

"some people" claim they have fairies at the bottom of their garden.

People base their decisions on more than marginal tax rates.

Having rich people around doesn't help the poor, it just makes them feel poorer.

I don't know what you're getting at there. I'm pretty frickin far from rich, but I don't hate people with money in that same way I don't hate people without money. I suppose I'm just not the jealous type.

I don't hate people with money – but all the evidence shows that a smaller gap between rich and poor = a healthier, happier society. And that goes for the rich as well as the poor strangely enough.

Sadly I do not fall into the category of people who were paying 83% tax and nor do I fall into the category of people who will be paying the new higher tax rate that Labour have introduced. I don't think I have mny knickers in a twist over the issue though. 😕 And I can appreciate that you would rather have had the choice BM of whatever carrer you wanted as an alternative to being pushed into it. I guess my point was we will never know what choices we would have had if Labour had remained in power. There may well have been different issues that came along under a different government that would have taken your right to choose away or forced you into doing something different.

Enlightened use of the word scum to describe Mrs T. Well done. Fine discoursive style. Not that I am a Cameron devotee but I think the idea that he is only "out for the rich" is not the most balanced view of Tory policies. To be honest I am still entirely sure which way I will vote. Each of the main parties has some policies of note that resonate with me. However, and this will be no big surprise based on some of my previous postings, I will not be voting for Labour. I do not respect Gordon Brown and the way he mangled the nations finances under his reign of "prudence" (I think the perfect gift for him would be a dictionary) and I think he is rather too desperate to hold onto power at the expense of any credibility, amongst other things. However, I see no need to lable him scum, or to eagerly await his demise so I can have a party to celebrate.

tory arse weasel

😆

That's got to be up there with 'Nazi Cock Monkey'!

Many people evade tax illegally and may of them aren't rich – so the fact a few rich people decide to live somewhere with less tax is just human nature.

rightplacerighttime – WTF?

You want rich people to go? Some of those are entrepreneurs. The country will lose their tax so the country will be worse off financially in that respect. But you're obviously so socialist that the idea of anyone having any more than you is just appalling right? Even if they're self made? Even if they're on Dragon's Den? Lovely people….

Talkemada – I try to be an equal opportunity insulter you know!

Backhander,

Affluenza by Oliver James is a good book on this subject.

Unfortunately, when our society places so much value on the right house, the right car, the right clothes, the right phone etc. and then invites people to borrow the money to buy these things (so long as they pay back with interest) then that creates social unrest and unhealthy competition for material wealth, as well as concentrating wealth in the hands of the lenders.

Of course the sting in the tail is that those few who get to the top of the heap re' material possessions generally don't achieve the satisfaction they thought they would before they got there.

when our society places so much value on the right house, the right car, the right clothes, the right phone etc.

Yes, but these pressures don't come from those with money, quite the contrary, its usually the poorer end of the scale who believe they need these things. If you look at the majority of the rich in this country they don't go around showing off all their possessions.

You want rich people to go?

I don't want them to go, I want them to pay their fair share. But if they'd rather go then that's fine by me.

Follow the link in my previous post. Rich people (generally) don't pay taxes like we do. They employ tax advisors who do a very good job of keeping their payments down.

Actually I quite like Duncan Bannatyne – he says this about non-doms and the tax system.

BTW, I'm quite happy with my lot. I do interesting work, have a nice end of terrace house that's just big enough, lovely wife, lovely kids, and a reasonable amount of time to do things I enjoy. How could anyone have more than me?

But what's their fair share? Whatever tax regime is in place?

Yes, but these pressures don't come from those with money, quite the contrary, its usually the poorer end of the scale who believe they need these things.

Those pressures come from marketing, magazines, TV, newspapers etc – who do you think owns/controls them?

If you look at the majority of the rich in this country they don't go around showing off all their possessions.

It's not so much what rich individuals do (although there are plenty who flaunt their wealth) it's the way society responds to them and the inequality between top and bottom. People see footballers earning 50 k a week and doing stupid things with it in Hello magazine and think that that is a great way to live. But we can't all live that way, which makes a lot of people unhappy. I'ts not too difficult to see how that works is it? There is loads of research in this area – read Affluenza.

Those pressures come from marketing, magazines, TV, newspapers etc – who do you think owns/controls them?

The devil?

I don't think your point is valid. You could say that for any product advertised. The area of our society that puts the pressures on for the perfect material goods is the very same area who can't afford these items.

But what's their fair share? Whatever tax regime is in place?

Good question.

I'm not sure. But it's been suggested that the CEO of a company should earn no more than 20 times the salary of the lowest paid worker. That seems "fair" to me.

As for those who start their own businesses – more tricky – but we can flesh out the finer details once I'm nearer to seizing power.

The area of our society that puts the pressures on for the perfect material goods is the very same area who can't afford these items.

You are categorically wrong.

You are categorically wrong IMO

fixed it for you.

Yes, but these pressures don't come from those with money, quite the contrary, its usually the poorer end of the scale who believe they need these things. If you look at the majority of the rich in this country they don't go around showing off all their possessions.

😯

Wrong on so many levels.

Wrong on so many levels IMO.

fixed it for you

Yes, but these pressures don't come from those with money, quite the contrary, its usually the poorer end of the scale who believe they need these things. If you look at the majority of the rich in this country they don't go around showing off all their possessions. All in my misguided opinion of course!

Thanks

Not a problem

Chaps – we seem to have gone off on a bit of a tangent (in my humble opinion, of course). Cant we just get back to accusing edukator of being a tory arse weasel?

Haven't read any of his posts but i am easily swayed so yes, you tory weasel arse you.

As for those who start their own businesses – more tricky – but we can flesh out the finer details once I'm nearer to seizing power.

ahem
""Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

I think that is very demeaning to arses and weasels to be called a Tory 😉

backhander

I'm afraid I'll be one of those who votes for whoever is likely to rid us of Brown et al. Not ideal but that's my opinion.
And you should really answer talkemada; why is your keyboard sticky? Left handed websites? I do hope your not in work.

Afraid I do the same but opposite most likely to beat a Tory and yes not that satisfactory a state of affairs for either of us. I am pro PR though and probably vote Green or for a left wing party like say Lib dems 😯 if my vote really counted.