talkemada, what a load of rubbish, are people not allowed to debate unless they have a certain level of knowledge? maybe you could come up with a sticky so the mods can put it to the top of the site explaining the level of knowledge needed before commenting on threads?

So much hatred and vitriol from people against Thatcher and her govenment of the time seems to me to be rather disturbing as well as being quite pointless.

Valid points Bikingcat and I totally agree. I suspect some of the posters on here weren't even around to know what it was actually like at the end of the last labour government.

What I find interesting is that we are only now getting a balanced thread. Most of the time on STW you get the impression that anybody who is not (far) left of centre has to be so socially inept that they don't deserve a vote and anyone who disagrees has to be a moron or morally corrupt. Maybe it's because most of the 'lefties' are mouthy gits with more time on their hands to bang on endlessly about a utopian ideal instead of getting on with it. Classic example is union meetings/training. Expensive hotels, worthy talks but what will they have achieved at (considerable) members expense – usually fuckall 🙄

so how much is the legal aid costing, do you know?

Maybe nothing.

Maybe it's because most of the 'lefties' are mouthy gits with more time on their hands to bang on endlessly about a utopian ideal

There you go. Balance restored!

Mitch – fair enough. I can't even begin to imagine what it must have felt like or what it was like in the community. However, what we don't have is the luxury of experiencing what life might have been like if those changes were not implemented. What if the Unions had been allowed to continue unchecked? What if Labour had remained in power in 79? Could the country have been in an even bigger mess and more polarised? Would we still have a top tax rate of 83%? Who knows? One thing we do know is that whoever wins the next election they will be on a hiding to nothing for a long time as we try to recover from the staggering levels of debt we find ourselves in and the legacy of the financial profligacy of the last 13 years with an empty financial cupboard (according to the current Chancelor).

lol, so the big boss man had to tell them to repay legal aid for defending their case against stealing from the tax payer, class!

Hora has made factually correct and amusing contributions to this thread (for example pointing out that free school milk continued beyond the date others claimed). Why the character assination Talkemada? It says more about you than it does about Hora.

I suspect some of the posters on here weren't even around to know what it was actually like at the end of the last labour government.

Well, if what you're asking is are some of the posters around here younger than 46 (31 years since 1979 + 15 years of age), funnily enough the answer is yes.

talkemada, what a load of rubbish, are people not allowed to debate unless they have a certain level of knowledge?

Thats not what I'm saying. The point I was making, is that if you want to offer an opinion, or state your case, it pays to know what you're talking about, before you type. If you post something naive and flawed, because you are ignorant and unknowledgeable, don't get upset if you're made to look a fool.

I know bugger all about many, many things. Such as cars, where it's clear Hora is far more informed than I. Therefore, I wouldn't offer up some ignorant and blinkered view, if everyone else around me had a vastly greater knowledge on the subject. I might, however, ask a question, and hope to learn something, maybe.

I wouldn't turn up to a gunfight armed only with a spoon….

bikingcat – although (in hindsight) the miners strike and its subsequent consequences changed my life for the better (I retrained as a psychiatric nurse following the closure of the pit I was at), I would still preferred to have had a choice rather than felt pushed into having to change – does that make sense?.

The very ideas of scabbing, black legging etc. come from the bully boy communist unionists. It's a denial of democracy and freedom of choice. The unions campaigned for the right to withdraw their labour and rightly won it. They then denied the workers they were supposed to represent the right not to withdraw thier labour. The stresses in the communities came from peer pressure not Thatcher.

Quite right Edukator, this is, after all a cycling website. So can someone please find Hora a roadbike as a matter of priority.

I give it 2 weeks before it's back on the classifieds as either 'not for me' or 'bling upgrade required' 😉

Why the character assination Talkemada?

I really, really don't think Hora needs my help on that score; he does ok by himself! 😉

And he's a big boy. I'm sure he can cope with it.

The stresses in the communities came from peer pressure not Thatcher.

Lordy…

The very ideas of scabbing, black legging etc. come from the bully boy communist unionists

This very statement reveals the extent to which right-wing thatcherite ideologies have affected the minds of people…

I would still preferred to have had a choice rather than felt pushed into having to change – does that make sense?.

I agree with that BM. My situation was similar in that I didn't have much choice in the matter and it was a career path I wouldn't ordinarily have considered but I'm very glad it's panned out the way it has. 😀

This very statement reveals the extent to which right-wing thatcherite ideologies have affected the minds of people…

This very statement reveals the extent to which left-wing Marxist ideologies have affected the minds of people…

Would we still have a top tax rate of 83%? Who knows?

ha ha – Bikingcatastrophe, do you pay the top rate of tax? Is this really an issue?

Maybe you do? But it really does astounds me how many people get their knickers in a twist about how unfair it would be if they ever had to pay a tax that they probably never are going to have to pay, and definitely never would have to pay unless they were lucky enough to make it filthy rich. It's a similar sort of mentality to people who only play the National Lottery on a rollover week, because 3 or 4 million is just not worth getting out of bed for.

OTOH there's not been a lot of discussion of the Poll Tax here yet. That was fair wasn't it?

OTOH there's not been a lot of discussion of the Poll Tax here yet. That was fair wasn't it?

………………….runs off to cut wrists………

To add to my last post, I also think I was bloody lucky to have had a mam and dad that pushed me into getting a decent education before going to work down the pit. I saw a lot of blokes just thrown onto the scrapheap during Maggie's 'remodelling' of South Yorkshire. Edukator – you do talk some crap mate – "The stresses in the communities came from peer pressure not Thatcher." – I am proud to have stood shoulder to shoulder with some of the most principled people I have or will ever know during the strike, and without having been there, you will never be lucky enough to experience that.

One should not base their current vote based on 'Maggie'. After all, she was going on two decades ago.

If you do use this as a criteria then you truly are bitter and twisted.

This very statement reveals the extent to which left-wing Marxist ideologies have affected the minds of people…

This statement reveals the extent to which right-wing Thatcherite ideologies have so poisoned the minds of people, that they see anything else as 'extreme' and evil…

>ha ha – Bikingcatastrophe, do you pay the top rate of tax? Is this really an issue?

Maybe it's not for him but he's not so selfish to look at just how he's affected?

I do find it odd that so many refer to Thatcher in order to persuade people not to vote Tory now; how many didn't vote Labour in '97 because of the state we were in after the 70s? Or was it OK as now it hard become New Labour?

One should not base their current vote based on 'Maggie'. After all, she was going on two decades ago.

If you do use this as a criteria then you truly are bitter and twisted.

It's why we love him… 😀

Talky – it was mildly entertaining the first time……not anymore 🙄

No doubt the unions had utterly lost the plot in regards to power and the way they wielded it but there destruction at the hands of the witch 😉 left us with the flipside of the coin, employers that took advantage and exploited the workers.

Thatcher and Scargill were as bad as eachother in the callous way they used people. Scargill was doomed as soon as he decided to take up the fight.

Talky – it was mildly entertaining the first time……not anymore

Stop posting then!

There, sorted! 😀

Better now?

[Scargill was doomed as soon as he decided to take up the fight]

Sad but true, if he had half the brains of Joe Gormley he have waited till he was in a better position to win.

Ernie, who is clearly very highly intelligent, informed and educated on subjects like this

😯

Or was it OK as now it hard become New Labour

Well New Labour was basically Thatcher-lite – completely different to the 70s Labour Party.

Maybe it's not for him but he's not so selfish to look at just how he's affected?

But happy to defend the selfishness of rich people? 😕

One should not base their current vote based on 'Maggie'. After all, she was going on two decades ago.

If you do use this as a criteria then you truly are bitter and twisted.

Really?
.
That might be the case for some people – but others will just want to be sure that "Call me Dave" hasn't just slapped on some new make up and lippy over the old Tory values…
.
It is actually important that the electorate understand DCs values and beliefs – and can see that he (and his entourage – most of whom are kjept firmly out of the spotlight) is sincere.
.
I suspect that many people suspect the same old Tory values lurk close beneath the shiny facade – and that scares folks.

thatcher was scum who had no interest in anyone who was not likely to vote for her/conservatives – see the nOrth ir Scotland for example. She divided the country north /south and also by class. We are still paying the social price for her destruction of communities- they may have not been economically viable but 20 years on the doles + the crime and drugs does not seem that great an idea either.

Call me Dave is probably a bit more of a Disaraelist One nation Tory. The NHS and his reliance on the state re his child [Ivan?] has made him realise that even someone as priveledged as he [and his even richer wife] will still occasionally need the help of others via the state and the public sector employees. Still rather loose a testicle than vote for them though. Out for the rich as Camerons policy of cutting Inheritance tax for the very wealthy – him and his mates basically- in this country amply demonstartes

The point I was making, is that if you want to offer an opinion, or state your case, it pays to know what you're talking about, before you type.

We used to get a guy on here all the time who didnt have a clue what he was talking about. Never stopped him, cant remember his name though!

Bit early for a drink isn't it junkyard? 😀

I'm sure he's flattered that you remember him so fondly, Surfer.

what my typo errors? Yes just corrected them – would blame a sticky keyboard but was user error- or do you have a problem with my analysis?

Why is your keyboard sticky? 😯

Good analysis IMO.

>ha ha – Bikingcatastrophe, do you pay the top rate of tax? Is this really an issue?

Maybe it's not for him but he's not so selfish to look at just how he's affected?

Won't somebody please think of the rich children?

Just the typos mate.
You are perfectly entitled to your opinions.
I'll be happy if the tories or the libdems get in.
I'm afraid I'll be one of those who votes for whoever is likely to rid us of Brown et al. Not ideal but that's my opinion.
And you should really answer talkemada; why is your keyboard sticky? Left handed websites? I do hope your not in work. 😯

New Labour Thatcher-lite? Thatcher heavy surely. It was the Blair government that made students pay fees within a day of being elected.

I'd rather not be "lucky" in that way Mitch. While you were on the picket line I was breaking another one in another industry. You seem to think that you are the only person that has ever lived or experienced anything. Blindly following the union leaders into collective industrial suicide was the easy option. Walking alone through the picket line somewhat harder. Never fight a battle you can't win.

Won't somebody please think of the rich children?

Some suggest that high tax rates scare of the rich leaving the country poorer overall….