The Annual Running thread – beginners/ultras/whatever

Actually, thinking about it I’ve decided I’m not interested in the scientific evidence of running. It’s probably a better bet to just go for a run.

@spin Hows training going for it? Might be able to support a leg if you need it.

I think I’m where I need to be, certainly fitter than at this point last year. Off to the Jura race this weekend and hoping to go sub 4hrs however it was a last minute place and I won’t be too disappointed if I don’t manage that. After that I’m just going for a few weeks of big back to back weekend runs to shape up for the Bob.

Thank you very much for the offer of support but I’m running solo with static support at the road crossings.

Interesting stuff Colonel, I will have a read later. There are many ways to skin a cat and I agree that just going for a run is rewarding in itself, we only have to add complexity if we want to, or if we want to develop competitively.

There are a number of theories around training and the opportunity cost of doing any one of them throws up its own analysis challenges. Many are also modified for convenience by lazy journalists pandering to lazy readers. Lydiard being a good example. Lydiard advocated long periods of “slow” running to develop aerobic fitness. What people choose to forget is that “slow” was still pretty fast (relative) and “long” was often upwards of 100Mpw. That period was then followed by intensive hill training and later periods of shorter high speed intervals/runs.

People like the thought of the first bit, hence the term LSD interpreted as “we can run as slow as we want and its still training” There are minor benefits to very slow running but they tend to bring more opportunity for injury and are certainly wasteful of time for a “competitive” athlete.

Thats not to say they are not fun or that people shouldn’t do them, but they are not performance enhancing.

I know there’s no proven benefit to compression socks for example but I find they help my recovery

Agreed – I’ve found that compression socks etc have helped my recovery. I figured that they ‘worked’ in the same way as Flight Socks/Surgical Support Tights and aided ‘venous return’ but haven’t looked into it in depth.

@Colonel wax – thanks for posting the research – there’s some interesting stuff in those articles.

Clicking on the ‘Similar articles’ led me down a ‘rabbit hole’ reading about inflamation … fascinating stuff and it strikes me that medical professionals etc have to wade through countless ‘grey areas’ of uncertainly and potentially conflicting research, whilst the general public have an expectation that everything can be neatly divided into ‘black and white’! (which ties in quite nicely to last nights BBC program about temperature/fever and the use of paracetemol/Calpol in children)

Understandably much of the research I’ve just read seems to be in relation to making sedantary/ill people more active rather than active people faster/more efficient.

You can’t put a price on enjoyment though can you? [whatever way you like your enjoyment!] and sometimes it’s best not to over-think or over-complicate things.

I know there’s no proven benefit to compression socks for example but I find they help my recovery

Agreed – I’ve found that compression socks etc have helped my recovery. I figured that they ‘worked’ in the same way as Flight Socks/Surgical Support Tights and aided ‘venous return’ but haven’t looked into it in depth.

Ahh, the compression sock conundrum.

I bought some only based on my ultra runner mate wearing them occasionally. If you look at pics of races (trail running) you see a lot of folks wearing them… to be honest I think it’s more a comfort thing and not getting stung by nettles (I wear them if footpath over fields running because of nettles)

I have worn them post run to see if they do me any good and I can’t honestly feel any different.

Wear them if you like I reckon.

I’ve always been an avid runner and never found it difficult to motivate myself to get out year round .I enjoy parkrun for some added inspiration occasionally . Looking to add in a fun dimension to raise interest levels again .Does anyone have experience of orienteering and how to get into it? Can you just turn up to an event as in individual and crack on? Or do you need to be in a club? Gain the necessary skills as you go? What is this geo cache business? Is it running events? I know with the ban of fox hunting they now use human ‘bait’. ie setting off early with the scent. That looks like fun to get some cross country miles in . Where/how do you volunteer for this. I remember seeing it on Country File.

Most local clubs will have low key races where you can just rock up and run. Done a fair few of the local club races and never been a member.

Lots of places also have permanent orienteering courses where you can just print the map and run it whenever. Have a google around see whats local. Where you based? I know a lot of the Yorkshire ones.

Geo Caching is wandering round with gps finding random stuff. Not really meant for running.

Fox hunting posse hunting me? Not a chance!

I’m in the Scottish Central belt .So there is orienteering courses that you just download and go do yourself? That sounds good for a wee change. What do I Google to find near me?

Got it. Just googled permanent orienteering courses in Scotland .Who would have thought eh. I’m going to do some .Great idea and looking forward to it already . Thanks for the heads up.

Wear them if you like looking like an eejit.

If you like listening to podcast interviews with so-called ‘action-sports’ people, then you might be interested in this interview with ultra runner Ryan Sandes:

His comments and thoughts about ‘pain’ are certainly ‘interesting’:

http://wearelookingsideways.com/podcasts/045-ryan-sandes

(also available in iTunes and includes loads of other interviews with people from snowboarding, skating, climbing, surfing & mtb (Tracey Moseley)

Lovely run this morning. 3 miles up to Parkrun, a respectable time at Parkrun then a lovely run home in the rain. Absolutely wonderful way to start the day.

Yomping over t’moors again for me today. All in I reckon 30ks of over the top/valley floor/up on top again. Some of it will be boggy and slow, some bits hard and fast, mostly it’ll be me on my own panting a large one.

Not done any running so far this weekend (and unlikely to fit any in, officiating at Rossendale Triathlon tomorrow and then planning on drinking beer…) but went down to Birmingham yesterday afternoon to spend the evening with some of the runners and support crews taking on the 145 mile Grand Union Canal Race, and then saw them head off from the start this morning. My better half is crewing for a guy with terminal liver cancer who’s done it before as a “fun run” as he was having chemo when the actual race was on, stopping in hotels each night and doing it over 3 days, but he’s attempting it properly within the 45 hour cut-off this weekend. Inspiring bunch of folk, and a good old laugh to be around as well.

Goid luck to anyone running edinburgh tomorrow. Looks lika scorcher,! I am doing tbe first relay with a bunch of workmates so a nice jog for a change!

Well done to @djglover for a sub 21 Bob Graham Round! Awesome running. I was the one you passed around Kirkfell.

I supported a guy on legs 1,2, and 3. Then finished off the Bob using one of his pacers and borrowing his support team so we could split up as I was slowing him slightly. 22.51 in total which is pretty okay for a wing it and see what happens round.

Cheers @ajf and nice to meet you and well done on an impromptu round, thats really impressive. You guys looked super tired on Pillar!  Was a fantastic day for it, that came with the inevitable highs and lows of ultra running!

Superb effort both! Loving the ‘winging it’ approach, that was my thought but found to be way off the pace with my intended partner and would have been an anchor on his effort. Snowdon Horseshoe for me today, with a bivvi night out. Mixed bag of weather from bright sunshine to howling winds, mist, thunder, heavy rain. Top day.

In the interests of balance and not just posting about races that went well for me…

I had a bit of a howler at Jura. Just didn’t get into a flow, got slower and slower and then decided just to trot it in rather than keep beating my head against a brick wall. 18 mins slower than last year rather than the 12 minutes quicker I was hoping for! Off days, we all have them and it’s part of the game (just ask Simon Yates) but it’s not fun.

Well done djglover on your Bob Graham, if the weather was anything like Jura it must’ve been awesome.

Parts of the day were awesome, parts were horrendous, wind was a major factor and so were the overnight conditions. I’ve got a write up on the strava: https://www.strava.com/activities/1599484480

Well finally got round to doing my first triathlon – just a short one – not even full “Sprint” but as my swimming is so shite I was too reluctant to enter the sprint event even though the cycle/run distances would have given me more of a chance to make things up.

Anyway, had a shit swim as predicted but at least came out of it in one piece. Cycle started off raining then we rode through a full on thunderstorm – full on cats and dogs. The run went well though – managed my 4 and a bit k in approx 4.30/k which I was happy enough with after the swim and run. Swim was 68th 😂, cycle 9th and run 2nd giving me a 5th overall our of a hundred entrants. Happy with my day’s work.

I’ve got a write up on the strava

Do I need to follow you to see that? It’s not obvious where the write up is on the link as I see it.

I’m not sure Spin? There are three dots on the activity overview that reveal it for me.

Great write up! The wind omg the wind! Relentless and never seemed to be a tailwind.

Skiddaw was interesting for us too. Head torches down below waist so I could see my feet. Floundering around after the fence line to find the track down to Calva.

Well done mr Darcy!

Had a pretty exact experience as you doing a novice tri a few years back, got lapped twice by one of the swimmers! Out the pool last and nailed the bike n run, was ace. Never done it again though! 🤣

Cheers Nobeer. 👍

To be fair, the guy that won only swam 15 secs faster than me so nearly but not quite as shit but he was strong on the bike (and transitions) – I could have been stronger on that but just didn’t get time to get out. Nevertheless, I was delighted – aim was top 25%.

T2 caught me out badly – I’d planned out where to de-shoe and spin the legs but honestly, the rain at this stage was so heavy I could hardly even see – just following the big yellow and black arrows and then “Cyclists dismount here”. Shiiiiiiiittttte. I hardly even managed to brake (I did pull them – just nothing happened!) before sailing straight through. 😂

Good job DD!

I had a 31k trail race yesterday, can’t say I did particularly well (Saturday night’s beers with the match probably didn’t help…) but I enjoyed myself, some great technical descents and some tough climbs made for a good event. Well run and decent feed stations also helped!

Nice one mogrim.

Ive entered a couple of trail races in June and July to broaden my horizons a little – only 10 &12k jobbies but need to make the best out of the summer and get off the hard surfaces (as much as I enjoy it) a bit. Also gives me an excuse to get a new pair of trainers. My road shoes just won’t cut the mustard on a dry trail will they?!

My road shoes just won’t cut the mustard on a dry trail will they?!

Serious answer? Depends entirely on the race. They wouldn’t have cut the mustard on my race yesterday, it was very rocky… but on the local trails round my house they’re overkill. But n+1 applies to shoes anyway as I’m sure you know. So go buy some 🙂

I’m sure you know.

‘Course not mate, course not. 😇

Despite not running, I headed up to the Highgate Night of the 10,000m PB’s last weekend, and it was a cracker.  Chris Thompson, Alex Yee and Andy Vernon all under 28 minutes – the last time we had 3 British athletes do this in a race was 1983!  Hopefully we will see a bit of a resurgence.

Had a good run today at the Vitality 10k.

6 years ago The Swedish Chef said

Under 40, call yourself fit.
Under 36, call yourself a runner
Under 32, call yourself an athlete
Under 30, call yourself whatever you like

and now I’m delighted to be able to call myself an athlete with a 31:32 🙂

What about under Fifty & Under Sixty… what are the tags for those?? 🙏

Awesome TF – A true athlete.

I don’t think I’ll ever achieve athlete status – I’m happy with being a runner.

I can’t imagine running that fast! Fortunately I’m happy just being a plodder (might aspire to be a punter one day).

Now – some basic training advice please. Just starting a second mini-cycle of training (7 weeks until next race – another 15km trail race). I’m pretty happy with 3 runs a week, and before the last race I was doing

Tuesday – longish intervals/hill repeats

Thursday – Tempo/Threshold sort of thing

Saturday – long trail run

Felt like it helped, but I think I’ll swap round Tues and Thurs this time, so that I’m a bit fresher for the 5 or 6 km tempo runs and have a shorter workout before the long outing sat.

Sound sensible?

Aye, I’ve been musing the need for a getting a bit of effort into my routine, but tbh this hot weather is kinda making me not want to burst a gut!. What kinda interval lengths are you planning? I went out last friday and did a ‘ladder session’ which I actually kinda enjoyed, but I was burst at the end!

5 min warm up

5 min @ marathon pace

1 min easy

4 min @ half mara pace

1 min easy

3 min 10k pace

1 min easy

2 min 5k pace

1 min easy

1 min fast as you have left

5 min cool down

I’m keeping things simpler than that – mostly because I’m still working out what pace I can sustain over longer distances.

I tend to do reducing sets of 400m, 800m, 1200m, with pace being “flat out”, “faster than comfortable”, “can’t quite talk but sustainable”, so 3x400m, 2x800m, 1x1200m.

Not too many reps as I lose count.

I actually prefer doing hill reps, or 3 to 6 km tempo runs, as it’s easier to set the level of effort, but I want to be doing some flatter faster running as well as going up or cruising along.

Just my opinion but that doesn’t look like it has anywhere enough hard fast running in it. The short MP and HMP bits are barely a warm-up.

and now I’m delighted to be able to call myself an athlete with a 31:32

You were an athlete before TF. I think that list is BS (and not just because I am 20 secs outside being an athlete) but because anyone who is trying to improve is an “athlete” in my book 🙂

Well done BTW, great time.. hope you have got events lined up to smash your PB’s, make the most of your purple patch.

I think that list is BS (and not just because I am 20 secs outside being an athlete) but because anyone who is trying to improve is an “athlete” in my book

+1 I’m currently dreaming of breaking 45 minutes for 10k this spring/summer. Sub 40 is beyond my wildest dreams but even if I did that I’d only just be a runner. That kind of arbitrary shit can **** off. How is somebody doing a C25K supposed to feel when they huff and puff through their first 3 minute continuous run and then read that kind of shite?

Well done to turboferret though – that’s a bloody awesome time. That’s beyond most mortals’ capabilities. You should be proud of yourself.

How is somebody doing a C25K supposed to feel when they huff and puff through their first 3 minute continuous run and then read that kind of shite?

It is quite hard to discuss such times without coming across as a bit of a nobber to be fair.  It means nothing to a non-runner, but to someone who has just started, it’s so far beyond their current ability to be incomprehensible.

I have been chipping away for a few years to get here though, I’ve run nearly 1800km so far this year, so it’s quite a major part of my life.  I was actually aiming for mid 32 yesterday, so be a whole minute quicker was a major surprise.   I have been incorporating intervals into my 20km run to/from work recently, which seems to be paying dividends in top of the mileage.  A good one is 1 minute hard, 2 minutes easy, repeat 15 times.  The hard is pretty much balls-out, and the recovery is over in a flash.  I turned it on it’s head though the other day, 2 minute hard, 1 minute easy quickly became unsustainable and I was reduced to a wheezy mess after about 8 efforts!