The Annual Running thread – beginners/ultras/whatever

Awesome 💪💪💪💪💪💪👍👍👍👍👍🤩

Fab write up 👍

Told you it was a great event, and that the support from everyone was fabulous…

Great to hear your thoughts and putting some effort in getting it down in words, really brings the event to life.

Thanks. Really is a superb event, the setup with the turning circle is absolutely brilliant for the end of each lap, even during the small hours there was always a handful of people about to cheer you on.

Woo hoo, just been offered a place at the Jura Fell Race having given up hope. It’s a week on Saturday but I think I’m in better shape than last year so we’ll see. Slightly shambolic under the new organiser. It seems lots of people were given places then pulled out, perhaps partly due to a typically sensational Red Bull web article about it (Top 10 UK trail races to do before you die or such like). Still, all’s well that ends well.

Had my running technique analysed by a physio last night to try to track down the cause of my peroneal tendinopathy.  I run 30-40 miles a week and he observed that I heel-strike, over-stride, have pathetic hip control, and my knees knock.

His recommendation was to focus on landing mid-foot.  Seemed like a sensible plan and I ran back from the health centre last night (about six miles), trying not to clobber my heels.

Fast-forward 24 hours and I can barely walk.  Has anyone here tried to go from heelstrike to midfoot strike?  At the moment I can just about get between the kitchen and living room while mincing like Captain Jack Sparrow, and I have blisters on my toes for the first time in years. 🙁

I’m actually quite a fast runner for my age (18:00 5K) and these feel like big changes.  Cadence already up there at 180-200 spm.  Is there anything else I can do to make this an easier transition?

*hobbles slowly away from computer*

Ha! No flipping idea but feel your pain.

I just ran from the farm to Stainburn Forest (what’s left of it) around (what’s left of it) and back.. now my shins hurt 😜

Night night 🕺

So Ladies and Gents, as you probably aren’t aware I turn 50 this year. Now I am sure you were all going to club together and buy me malt but I have a better,easier idea.

https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/stuart-donald50

I’m nowhere near a proper runner compared to you 42 milers / 18 min 5K’ers and so on, but I’m steadily getting back into it (despite some overdoing it setbacks)

I only do a couple of runs a week, and I think I need to get to at least 3/week even if they are all only 5K give or take as a means of building up volume without overstretching my muscular capability for now, as it’s then when i seem to pull stuff.  One run is my weekly shop run, which is normally a choice between a 1-2 mile absolute beginners run, and a 5-8K usually longer one for improvers. I’ve been sticking to the shorter ones, or the longer one with my own short cut if the short is too short while I’ve been rehabbing, and so far so good.

But this week, instead of a normal run we went to the park and did some intervals.  ‘Crocodiles’ – running in a line around a circuit with back sprinting to front on repeat, followed by hill sprint repeats.  I’m really starting to get into it again now (albeit don’t quite trust this calf on full-gas mode yet so my sprints were more like tempo+ with jogged recoveries)

What do the experts think? Just up the mileage (and does the 10% rule apply when volumes are as low as mine are current) or is it worth adding some faster stuff already, even if I don’t have a particularly big base yet (but decent aerobic fitness from biking?)

Nice one Durhambiker – Some good mental strength to run round in circles for than long !

This is more my cup of tea, starting this weekend.- http://live.opentracking.co.uk/capewrath18/

If the weather is OK, they are in for a treat.

“But this week, instead of a normal run we went to the park and did some intervals. ‘Crocodiles’ – running in a line around a circuit with back sprinting to front on repeat, followed by hill sprint repeats. I’m really starting to get into it again now (albeit don’t quite trust this calf on full-gas mode yet so my sprints were more like tempo+ with jogged recoveries)”

This is “proper” training. Its is basically interval training which is still the most effective way of improving fitness. If you dont have confidence in your calf yet then just build them slowly. When you are confident they should really be close to flat out to get benefits and you should keep your recoveries short. Its all relative to the length but treat this as your quality session.
In terms of building up it depends what you want to achieve. If you want to get as fit as you can then you simply need to increase to around 6 days per week and 60+ mpw. This may not be for you, if not then try to run more days but lower intensity. You will start to develop fitness from this with a lower risk of injury.

I’d agree with surfer (not that he knows much) theotherjonv, little & often – I used to find, doing 2 per week, I felt a bit under pressure to put distance in I suppose. So I’d just do the “go out and run” (which in itself is not a bad thing – better than doing nothing) but find my body was just replying with “you can **** off if you think I’m doing this 15k faster than we did last week…”

So since January our little group of 2-then-3 have been doing little & often – better 30-45 minutes of intervals, pyramids or sprintervals than an hour of running. I’m not fast, just a good bit faster than I started.

Last weekend was a parkrun PB of 21.07 and this morning was an Ashton Court parkrun PB of 21.40 (I may have mentioned how it’s 2.5k uphill to start before…have I mentioned that?). But I ran my fastest mile this year this morning (6.05) and fastest 2 miles (13.21) – none of that is “fast” but it’s bloody fast for me.

Those parkrun times are down from 25.19 and 24.50 respectively. This has all been achieved with interval training (and a bit of weight loss – but that comes with interval training and a bit of dietary care anyway). So useful, little, often is the key.

12k in open Yorkshire farmland in the sunshine (and nettles)

😎😎😎🔥🔥🔥🔥

@spin – well done, Jura is one of the fell running classics and a great weekend. Those bucket lists are a right pain especially when there’s limited places. The previous organiser of the Jura rang me once about a friend who’d asked for an entry as she didn’t know his pedigree, it’s annoying when places get taken up (and not used) by those who haven’t done the groundwork.

cheers, will gradually up the number and duration without worrying much about speed, and then add maybe one more structured session of intervals or speed work in a few weeks time once I feel I’m over these niggles.

 The previous organiser of the Jura rang me once about a friend who’d asked for an entry as she didn’t know his pedigree,

We had it pretty good under the last organiser as he’s in the same club so I suspect just gave us all places!

Nice wee local hill race today the ‘Fyrish 3 Monuments’. Most sociable with everyone just sitting around in the sun afterwards.

Its is basically interval training which is still the most effective way of improving fitness.

Seemingly very little conclusive scientific research available to support this:

A couple of studies for perusal:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11772161

“Further examination of the biochemical and physiological adaptations which accompany different HIT programmes, as well as investigation into the optimal HIT programme for eliciting performance enhancements in highly trained athletes is required.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4657417/

“The results suggest that although HIIT protocols are time efficient, they are not superior to conventional exercise training in sedentary young adults.”

For the record, I’m not saying [High intensity] interval training etc doesn’t work – I just couldn’t find any independent [i.e. not trying to sell something] statistically significant, peer reviewed, ‘scientific’ research to support it … and I know how keen ‘Surfer’ is on having ‘scientific’ evidence to support an argument! 😉

Took my 7 years old lad to the local park run Saturday, but not the junior one… the full 5k.

He didn’t have footy training and the weather was lovely so I thought why not? If we walk a few times no worries. But I purposely didn’t say a thing about seeing how far we’d get or telling him don’t worry if you want to walk… Didn’t want to put him under any pressure.

Now bare in mind this park run isn’t a 2 and a half laps of the local playing field…. it’s a pretty damn hilly beast, with 78m of ascent, around a country park.

He didn’t walk once !! … in fact he didn’t even look close to wanting to walk. He powered up the last “Heartbreak” hill and still had lots in the tank for a long sprint finish…. Coming in at 28:57.

But the time doesn’t matter, it was his attitude that I was so proud of…. Determination and confidence.

Wish I could bottle it .. I’m sure in the future he ‘ll need a heavy dose of one or the other.

Oh and I had a decent “running” weekend as well … result are still provisional but think I’ve qualified for (age group) OCR world champs.

That’s a brilliant time for a 7 year old Ro5ey, bravo!.

Did my first ParkRun last Saturday in a time of 28.14. Went again on Saturday and did it in 26.21.

Aiming for <25mins next week now I am getting a grip on pacing it correctly.

Saturday’s Ashton Court parkrun was “won” by a JM11-14 in 17.45. 😮

Despite being on the reserve list I didn’t get an entry to the Highgate Night of the 10,000m PBs, but did head up to spectate in the evening.  Mens race was quite something, with Alex Yee, Andy Vernon and Chris Thompson battling it out to be top Brit.  Yee had the edge at the end, having made a break with about 200 to go, but Vernon and Tommo were reeling him in at the end and all finished within about a second.  First time 3 Brits have gone under 28 minutes in one race since 1983 I think I read.  Nice little nocturnal jog home to Wimbledon after the racing meant I had clocked up my 100km for the week before Sunday so could take the day off 🙂

What are you training towards now TF?

Saturday’s Ashton Court parkrun was “won” by a JM11-14 in 17.45.

Yeah, last week I was overtaken at the end of my second (of three) laps in Harrogate by a kid going down the finishers tunnel – he couldn’t have been more than 13 and there was only probably three or four other people ahead of him.

:-O

One week to go before the Millau Viaduc race . 23.7km , including running the viaduc both ways .

No running in 5 weeks but lots of MTBing ; should I go for a little run this week ?

I’ve got a vets league 3000m this evening, but not expecting to set any records even by my standards as I don’t have the top end speed that I had a few years ago when the shorter stuff was more of a focus.  Vitality 10k this coming bank holiday Monday where hopefully I’ll dip into the 32:XX for the first time.

Bacchus marathon in September is always a fun one which I’ve run a few times –  starts in Denbies vineyard, Dorking, 2 laps, hilly with optional wine every few miles.  I set the course record a few years ago, but they’ve just changed the course, so I need to go back and repeat!

Bournemouth marathon in October, where they’ve stopped paying internationals to come and make the domestics look rubbish, but they’ve also slashed the prize money massively.  Hoping to break even for the weekend 🙂

Cheers, Rich

Today’s two loops of Swinsty/Fewston reservoirs was….

That Millau race looks really good – have to remember that for next year.

As I posted a couple of pages back, I had my first trail race yesterday – the 18km Tour de Pic St Loup as part of this : https://www.festatrail.com/ It was quite an ambitious objective, as I’ve only been back to running for about 2 years and seven weeks ago I was only running once or twice a week, up to about 10k max. But then I had to give up climbing due to dodgy fingers, so thought I’d better find another sport fast. I’ve always wanted to run around Pic St Loup (I can see it from my village) so I planned seven weeks training – basically intervals on Tuesdays, tempo runs on Thursdays and long runs Saturday, building up to about 80% of race distance or time. The actual race had 800m of climbing and I had trouble finding close trails to do that kind of altitude gain.

The day started sunny, a relief as I didn’t fancy the final downhill kms on worn rocky limestone in the wet. Photo taken during warmup – the route goes up to the castle that you can just see in the middle and then all around the big lump to the left.

I saw a colleague at the start – he’s done a few of these so he was in the 2h-2h30 start wave. I was being conservative and was in 2h30-3h, but I was really aiming for 2h30.

The route hits steep singletrack after the first 1.5km, so the start waves are really spread out – by about 10 minutes! I didn’t know, so finished warming upo then ended up stood around for 20 minutes before the start.

Despite that I started well. I’d told myself not to go to fast at the start, but quickly found myself near the start of the group. This actually really helped, as I didn’t get held up on the first big climb, and had mostly clear trail until we started to catch up the slower runners from the previous wave on the first descent over the other side. I concentrated on pushing on the ups (but not too hard) recovering on the flat bits and not letting up on the descents. As planned I had a gel about half way, and felt pretty good.. right up until nearly the end – there’s a long, long descent on a really rocky trail then a final 1.5km road descent. But as soon as I hit the road I lost all my energy, I had almost nothing left after concentrating furiously all the way down the singletrack. Fortunately I had a second emergency gel, which got me to the end. My colleague had arrived a couple of minutes before, and was on the finish straight waiting for a friend of his, but I was so cooked that I went straight to the water/food station then ended up sitting under a tree for about 10 minutes, unable to talk or move.. By the time I went back he’d gone!

I finished faster than I expected – 2h23. Feet and knees were OK, thighs are hurting today but I’m really, really  pleased. I had a great time all the way round, felt like the training really worked and really enjoyed it.

Planning an easier week now, with a couple of easy runs.. then it’ll be another seven weeks until the next one : Trail d’Ebron near Grenoble. Similar distance, slightly less climbing but should be less rocky trails.

Had an absolute shocker at the Three Peaks, was on pace for just under 3:30 but it all fell apart on Whernside.  I set off with a far too optimistic pace for the training I had completed.  Was disappointed to be 15 mins worse that my PR

However moved on from that now and me and a Friend are attempting the Bob Graham this Saturday 😀  Will have trackers so will post them up here

Corr blimey you too ☝️👍👍👍

That run timb did sounds awesome, one day when I grow up I’d like to do something like that 🤡😎😎

Good luck with your BG djglover. I’m probably going for it first week in July.

@djglover – good luck! If this weather continues it would be way too hot for me – I remember pacing leg 3 when it was 20C at 7am! I’d had enough with just that. Then again I’ve also paced leg 3 on a winter attempt when it was -14C.

“Official” or just doing it for the hell of it?

Official, will be running the whole thing with a mate, but we have pacers each from leg 3 to end

Forecast is for 19C in the valley, so worst case 14c with a breeze on tops should be OK.  Key thing is, good visibility, dry underfoot and a nice weekend in prospect for support crew.

http://live.opentracking.co.uk/bg2018/?n=20

Did the Old County Tops on Saturday. Beautiful day if a little warm and my friend and I got the second MV100 prize. To say I’m chuffed doesn’t come close since I nearly totalled myself in October 2015 and ended up having neck surgery and am lucky not to be quadriplegic. I was quite emotional at the finish although it was quite dry and dusty.

We’ve done this every year from 2004 to 2013. I missed 2006 with a cold and my pal struggled with the heat in 2010 so we didn’t finish. Then in 2014 I broke my wrist, 2015 we were both ill or injured, 2016 was too soon and last year we got too cold. To finish this year and only 10mins off our 10 year old pb was brilliant and I’m managing the stairs today as if it was a Wednesday after, not a Monday.

Enough bragging. Now to focus on a couple of BGs I’m supporting then the Welsh 3000s in June.

Land o’ Burns 10k in Ayr tonight, looks like it’s gonna be a warm one. I’m really just doing it to pace Mrs Nobeer to a PB of sub 55 mins*, which I’m immensely proud of her for doing btw, she’s just turned 40 and up until 8 months ago hadn’t run the length of herself.

Good, local event too ran by local club, only 11 quid and you get a medal and a tech tee shirt for that, can’t say fairer than that.

*I will however be champing at the bit when people I know I’m quicker than are overtaking me… 🙂

Well done Paul4 btw, great effort!

@Digby

I dont know what your beef is but I am bored with you dragging up old conversations in response to my posts.You clearly have a bee in your bonnet about that old stretching discussion which you wont drop. As anyone knows I love a good “debate” but move on because you are coming across as a nob.

@Rosey

Its great to see kids running, not a huge fan of Parkrun (because its a race that gets special treatment) but that’s not to say people running around the local park Saturday is not brilliant 🙂

@turboferret

Yes UK 10000m running has been in the toilet for decades. I mentioned this on Twitter and Tim Hutchings (Olympic 5000m 4th placer) took issue. between 2000 and 2017 we had 6 athletes under 28 mins. between 80-89 we had 12 (several closer to 27:30) UK 10000m running has regressed, sadly. Hopefully this initiative will give it a boost (stats excluding Farah)

@djglover what time you setting off? Schedule you looking at?

I am supporting leg 1 starting at 1am but taking enough food to keep going. Will def be doing 1,2 and most of 3 but if feeling good i’ll carry on. May or may not stay with guy supporting me as its a bit of a wing it and see.

Got a proper date set for 14th July.

@spin Hows training going for it? Might be able to support a leg if you need it.

Anyone run on a treadmill?

<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>I’m away in America with work (not a regular thing TBH) and went for a run, it’s hot and humid, and I thought I was going to collapse. So I tried the hotel treadmill, managed 20 seconds holding the handrail in a death grip, and gave up and went outside again. The idea of running in frosty Aircon is very appealing so how do I get the bastard machine to work?</span>

I use a treadmill quite regularly in the winter, just set the speed to something reasonable and jog along watching telly (iPad). Rarely try something fancy with speed and intervals etc.

The evidence around running is really interesting – I know there’s no proven benefit to compression socks for example but i find they help my recovery. Anyway @digby I wouldn’t say there was no evidence around interval training. Not my area of expertise but:

Overspeed HIIT in Lower-Body Positive Pressure Treadmill Improves Running Performance https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25984891 CONCLUSIONS:A 4-wk HIIT protocol at 100% vVO2max improves field performance, vVO2max, VO2max and submaximal HR in trained runners.

Found a systematic review, so better levels of evidence than a single study

The impact of high-intensity interval training versus moderate-intensity continuous training on vascular function: a systematic review and meta-analysis.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25771785 CONCLUSION:

HIIT is more effective at improving brachial artery vascular function than MICT, perhaps due to its tendency to positively influence CRF, traditional CVD risk factors, oxidative stress, inflammation, and insulin sensitivity. However, the variability in the secondary outcome measures, coupled with the small sample sizes in these studies, limits this finding. Nonetheless, this review suggests that 4 × 4 HIIT, three times per week for at least 12 weeks, is a powerful form of exercise to enhance vascular function.

Cardiac rehabilitation, so not runners (but another systematic review)

High-intensity interval training versus moderate-intensity continuous training within cardiac rehabilitation: a systematic review and meta-analysis.
<h4>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29416382 CONCLUSION:</h4>
HIIT is superior to MICT in improving cardiorespiratory fitness in participants of cardiac rehabilitation (CR). Improvements in cardiorespiratory fitness are significant for CR programs of >6-week duration. Programs of 7-12 weeks’ duration resulted in the largest improvements in cardiorespiratory fitness for patients with coronary artery disease.

Oh, and click on similar papers links in PubMed on the 2 articles you posted to find contradictory papers including:

High-intensity interval training and β-hydroxy-β-methylbutyric free acid improves aerobic power and metabolic thresholds.
<h4>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24782684 “CONCLUSIONS:</h4>
Our findings support the use of HIIT in combination with HMBFA to improve aerobic fitness”

A good topic for a systematic review focussing on runners. I’m rubbish at stats but could help with the searches if anyone’s interested?