The Annual Running thread – beginners/ultras/whatever

Believe me, after 20hrs they will rub. That’s why I’m looking for seamless ones.

Salomon make some great ones, and I think Decathlon (at least in Spain) also still sell/make some – just don’t get the trail ones, at least IME they’re uncomfortable… The Decathlon road ones I’ve used for ultras without problems, they’re a lycra inner with a loose outer.

Here’s a picture from today’s “run” in La Pedriza, a very rocky park north of Madrid:

It’s Mother’s Day today so we had to cut the run short, managed about 17K in 3 hours – not bad going given the amount of scrambling involved 🙂

More racing might help lunge, it certainly improved my fitness and made me better able to judge pacing. And when you say ‘better food choices’ what do you mean?

More racing is fair but actually I think more, and very importantly, better and focussed training is the answer. Last 2 events I’ve done I’ve gone in undercooked and I need to get out of that habit. I need to work specifically to my goals rather than just running and seeing what happens when I get there

Re. food, more just not eating rubbish so much. I’ve got away with a very average diet by almost constantly exercising and so burning off the crap. I don’t think it helps performance and so need to get back to being sensible and eating better.

Well, less than two weeks to go until my first trail race, and I know it’s going to be tough. Aiming for 2h30 to do 18km with 800m climbing.

I’ve been running three times a week, on the same kind of terrain. I’ve done a mixture of longer intervals and tempo runs with a long run at the weekend. I’ve run similar distances in training (but without the same kind of altitude gain as the race….) and I’ve done outings of about 80% of my target time.

Last Saturday morning I went and did a half-length version of the race circuit (missing out on the first big climb and last big descent), and as I expected I’m lacking experience in managing effort on long (1km) climbs and my knees aren’t used to doing the long descents! I’ve recovered OK, so the fitness is there, but I think I’ll go and do the half circuit again this weekend, as the experience gained should be more worthwhile than any final fitness gain from a flatter longer run… I hope. Bit of a shame to do the race trails as training, but there aren’t many others with the same amount of up or down nearby.

Wow !

This weekend I’ll be down at Enduroman in the New Forest, primarily crewing someone who’s doing the continuous triple iron distance triathlon but I’ve entered the Run 2 Max 24 hour run so I’m taking part as well. 24 hours to run as many or as few laps of the 1.1 mile mixed terrain run course as I can be bothered with. Didn’t have a target for it but one of my mates has helpfully told me that as I DNF’d at Country To Capital last year I should aim to cover 43 miles so I can put that distance to bed. Any less will result in merciless mockery. Should be fun after something like 30 hours of crewing duties.

Ohh thats sounds like the event my mate Jonny did a couple of years ago.. Is it in the grounds of the YHA where the Big Bike Bash is held (can’t remember the name of it now) has a small lake then up through the gardens and over into the woods loop??

Any ways up…

Someone posted earlier that running was shite, sometimes it is.. today for instance. Did a normal flat loop down to the beach and along the cliffs and through the footpaths over the fields… flat like my body was tripping over my legs, my legs had no cohesive movement to them they just flung one way then the other, breathing was paltry and wheezy and sounding like the local Donkey sanctuary … and it was hot, and I sweat like seal.

Some days are just like that.

It’s at Avon Tyrell, which is run by UK Youth. Could well be the same place, as it does indeed have a small lake and woods

That’s the one..

Enjoy it, plenty of folk there when we were there. We left him to it and came back the following morning to see him still doing laps.. mental.

There was a fantastic support network there, all sorts of medical and conditioning folks and a real grounded support for everyone taking part..

If you can type after it, let us know how you get on 👍

I know quite a few of the people who’ll be down there through other events, and quite a few mates are taking part so it should be a good laugh. My first time down there, primarily going to support someone in the Triple but figured it’d be daft not to do something to take part as well. Original plan was the 3-2-1 Swim but breaking my collarbone last year has set me right back with my swimming. Will update on how it went at some point next week!

I saw the recommendation earlier in the thread for Vassos Alexander’s book Don’t Stop Me Now.

I picked up a copy of it and it anyone wants it when I’m finished in a couple of days time then let me know and I’ll post it on to you.

He’s also got a new one out, Running Up That Hill

Loch Leven Half Marathon this coming weekend. I’m looking forward to it, but will be glad when it’s done. Think i’m done with the tarmac and will focus on hills.

Notmyrealname, fancy a swap? I’ve just got Chris McDougalls natural born heroes, be happy to post onto you.

Nobeerinthefridge, that sounds good to me. If you PM me your details I’ll get it in the post to you.

Will do mate.

As a relatively fit cyclist who’s never done any running whatsoever, what kind of approach would you take to starting?

Did one 15 minute run at a steady pace and never found myself out of breath, but I figure that is the way to go for at least the first couple of weeks? Very conscious of the risk of injury, especially as I have quite tight calves and muscles in general.

How long until you should be running 5k with a steady but brisk pace?

I’d go with feel to be honest, if you can go a bit longer and not suffer any issues in the days after, I’d just keep adding a sensible amount of distance on. I’m definitely no expert btw!.

What was a steady pace in terms of numbers out of interest?.

Whats your definition of a steady pace? How far did you travel in the 15 minutes.

Was just over a mile. Nice and easy. 1.2 mile, 14 minutes.

Its very easy to tell when you’ve over done it (either too long or too fast). Day one after it’ll hurt, day two will be worse and day three things should start to ease.

Also no expert but… If your relatively fit then I’d be less concerned about cardio fitness and more about getting your legs used to running without an injury. Slowly build up the time your moving for without pushing the pace. I’d look more at time rather than distance. Don’t run too often. When you can comfortably do half an hour without stopping then add a little more pace (i..e slightly more distance in the same time). Mix it up with shorter (time)/ faster and longer/slower runs. Most importantly listen to your body.

Whats your expectation of a brisk 5k pace? 30mins, 25mins?

Who’s out and about racing etc. this weekend?

I’m doing Dukeries 30 (the wife is also doing it) on Saturday around the Walesby, Clumber park, North Notts area.

It’s my first foray above 26.2 so I’m interested to see how I fair. Apparently the actual distance is more like 31 than 30.

It’s either this or the White Peak half next Saturday as my ‘half or above race’ for this month. Currently 4 down, 8 to go…

I’d go with feel to be honest, if you can go a bit longer and not suffer any issues in the days after, I’d just keep adding a sensible amount of distance on. I’m definitely no expert btw!

Nor am i, apart from having been on the wrong side of it. The trouble, IMHE, is that on an activity like running that puts substantial loads (3x the loads from walking, some say) onto muscles and joints that may not yet be strong enough to support them is that as fatigue sets in the risk of injury increases. And that injury in my case was pretty binary, going from ‘achy but pleasurable’ (that nice ache you get from knowing you’ve done something) to ‘POP!’ within a couple of strides.

Hence running on feel can be great but I would strongly suggest a slow increase like Couch to 5K even if it does seem ridiculously easy on the aerobic load to start with just to make sure the mechanics don’t break down before the engine.

Hence running on feel can be great but I would strongly suggest a slow increase like Couch to 5K even if it does seem ridiculously easy on the aerobic load to start with just to make sure the mechanics don’t break down before the engine.

In this case, I’d agree, your pace is suggesting you’re either really taking it easy, or C25k is about your best option.

Whats your expectation of a brisk 5k pace? 30mins, 25mins?

No idea, wouldn’t know what a brisk pace is in terms of times. Just that level where you’re not going all out but feel like you’re getting a good workout.

Hence running on feel can be great but I would strongly suggest a slow increase like Couch to 5K even if it does seem ridiculously easy on the aerobic load to start with just to make sure the mechanics don’t break down before the engine.

That’s the kind of approach I’m taking, but still hoping not to spend 3 months getting my body into a shape where I can actually do this running stuff properly. I anticipate that being very frustrating!

The stuff about fatigue makes sense – I will certainly bear that in mind.

Tbh I found one of the hardest things was knowing what was a twinge to just carry on and train through, or what is something you should stop and rest up a bit. The good lady started running about the same time as me, and ended up doing far too much, resulting in some serious delayed onset muscle pain in her thighs. Ended up having to stop for about 3 weeks, it’s all a learning.

also – one man’s easy is another man’s hard so don’t get held up by times. I think that’s why C25K is good because at least to start with it has you running to time, not to distance and speed at this stage is irrelevant, get the body used to running for 20 minutes before it worries about how far that equates to.

but still hoping not to spend 3 months getting my body into a shape where I can actually do this running stuff properly. I anticipate that being very frustrating!

Not as frustrating as being in rehab for the last four weeks waiting for this calf strain to heal. Promise!

If any of you lot are doing the Cotswold Way run this weekend, say hello to my Mrs. It’s her first multi-day wotsit, she’s pretty excited.

Some proper runners out this weekend eh, me I’m still building muscle for my next massacre on the S’th Downs..

Tonight run was:

There was an old bloke who swallowed two flies.. I don’t know why he swallowed two flies, perhaps he’ll die..

Good luck and good legs for all those out hacking it.

Who’s out and about racing etc. this weekend?

No racing for me this weekend but going to try to get 2 big days in the hills.

Will be trying to get a short steep run in to prepare for race next weekend. I’d also agree with Jonv’s recommendation for something like C25K. It’s an excellent way to build up gradually and get all of you used to running without doing too much. I started with that a couple of years ago.

But it’s amzing what progress you can make with a bit of proper training – after 4 weeks of more regular running I went out and did my fastest ever 5k last night, without feeling destroyed this morning. Really pleased with that, hopefully it’s a good sign for next week!

Had another bash at Arrow Valley parkrun this morning for the first time since my (wake-up call) 25.19 in January. My previous PB for parkrun was 21.37 in Gunnersbury in London around 5 years ago. Managed a 21.07 new PB this morning – really wasn’t expecting it – didn’t warm up properly and felt properly shit after the first 500m but after 2k when the voice in my ear told me I was still averaging 4.15/k, I decided to throw myself at it a bit. I’m a happy runner today. 🙂

New park run PB this morning at 26:47. 53 secs faster than my previous so pretty chuffed! Also read somewhere that Lloyd park is reckoned to be the hardest park run course in London hehe. So feeling pretty happy. Think I’m gonna try and start stepping up to some longer runs now. Used to really enjoy 10km.

Good “run” today, although a large amount of it was walking. Possibly the most technical mountain run I’ve done in Madrid, took nearly 7 hours to do 40km! Fun though, and good training for the upcoming events.

53 secs faster than my previous

👍

Good “run” today, although a large amount of it was walking.

Funny you say that…

Did a bit of a Torridon Munro / Corbett round yesterday. 36k, 3800m and about 9hrs. Like you say, not really running but a brilliant day out.

Moar QECP hacks for me, the other day and that felt really good and today felt really good as well… in fact I blasted the blue down hill like I was on a bike 🤪

Good to see the cyclefest going on, loads of folks riding and milling around and plenty of on lookers too.

The other days hack I passed a bloke running with a 15kg filled rucksack on his back, I often wonder “why” and he wasn’t in combats either.. it was warm, he looked “hot”. I met him in the car park and asked him why, he said I’m not in training for anything.. if I ran with a 15kg rucksack I think I’d die.

Unless you’re in the army (and even then I’m not sure) there ain’t no point in running with a 15kg sack.

We have the Army Barracks near Liss, I wondered if he was from there.. he didn’t say he was though.

Any updates on the guys that did the Avon Tyrell runfest yet ??

First ultra done – tick

Got lost – tick

Found my way again – tick

Got lost again – tick

Found my way again – tick

Will I do another – errrrr, probably. Think that’s maybe a tick then.

Dukeries 30/40 in and around Sherwood forest / Clumber park.

A great, mainly off-road route with great scenery and great organisation.

White peak half next Saturday….

Got back from Enduroman last night and already waiting for entries to open for next year. Had a great time, wonderful event full of amazing people in a perfect location.

I was doing the “Run To Max 24hr” (which is run as many or as few laps of the 1.1 mile course in a 24 hour period), and up until the week before I had no goal for mileage. I was down there to crew for a friend of mine as she attempted the Continuous Triple Iron triathlon, and intended to use the Run To Max to do some training runs in between feeding her and to keep myself active. A “mate” of mine however decided that I ought to try to make up for my DNF at Country To Capital last year, so I was given a target of 42 miles, with no training for it (longest run in recent months has been 10 miles). This was going to be fun.

Initially my plan was to wait until Claire had finished on the bike, probably late Saturday night, before I started running, but she hit some real problems in the swim and decided that triathlon is a stupid idea, so she swapped to the Run To Max 48hr. This meant I wasn’t really needed for crewing duties other than the occasional brew so I started my run Saturday afternoon. My plan was to more or less keep going until I hit the 42 miles, then stop for some kip before deciding if I wanted to do any more.

The first few laps were really quite enjoyable. The loop is a mix of different types of trail, some gravelly, some softer ground in the woods, some sections covered in roots, a short bit of tarmac, and what seem like some quite gentle ups and downs at first. No point trying to be a hero so got into a set pattern of run-walk from lap 2 onwards, reinforced by advice from the much more experienced guys on the course. The first half marathon seemed to tick by quite quickly, and after a stop in the main house for the evening meal the marathon distance didn’t seem to take too long to reach either, and from then on every step forward was a new distance PB. As the light started to fade I got the head torch on and set off to run a few more laps before it got dark, as I’d made the decision that once nightfall came it would be mostly walking in order to avoid the risk of falls (plus I really wasn’t trained for running for this length of time, and I’ve got Lakesman triathlon next month…). On one lap, approaching the highest point of the course, there was the most amazing sunset resulting in a stunning view out over the New Forest, so a couple of us had to stop briefly to admire it. From then on was where it started to feel tough. 30 miles onwards it was just a slog. When I got to 32 miles, I initially thought “10 miles, on a slow training run that’s a couple of hours, so not long”, but then I had to remind myself I was far slower at this point, and that it was going to be more like 4 hours. My feet were killing me, the rest of my legs weren’t far behind, the initially “quite pleasant” course was now an absolute nightmare, the slight inclines were mountains, and the small roots were huge obstacles. Reaching 10k to go it was even worse. Someone helpfully said it’s just 2 parkruns, but my last 2 parkruns were both hungover nightmares full of pain and misery! But after 13 hours and 46 minutes I finished my 39th lap, 42.9 miles done. Very slow, but got it done. I headed off to bed pretty sure that would be it for me, and sure enough when I woke up after a grand total of 3 hours sleep (the joys of camping) I knew I was handing my timing chip in and taking it easy for the rest of the weekend.

All the other competitors were absolutely brilliant and incredibly supportive, including some seriously strong and inspiring endurance athletes. Everyone’s support crew helped to keep everyone else going, and the organisers made such an effort to make everyone feel like a vital part of the event. On the topic of support crew, I had the invaluable assistance of my new other half who has done quite a bit of crewing on ultras and without her it would have taken me much longer. She took everything out of my hands other than focusing on putting one foot in front of the other. She decided when I could stop, how long for, had hot drinks ready and food ready for me and told me to get on with it. One lap when I was struggling she cheerfully said “I’ve got some pills here that might help you” which made my face light up, until she added “They’re called MTFU pills, take 2 and get on with it”.

Plan for next year is to go back and do the Continuous Double Iron triathlon. Another 10 miles on the run course after a 4.8 mile swim and 224 miles on the bike, what could possibly go wrong?