The Annual Running thread – beginners/ultras/whatever

Done something to my leg/hip. Hurts to stand on it if I’ve been sat down for a while.

No running for me 😫

Any plans for the weekend ?

I’m doing a partial loop of the Nidderdale loop (the MTB route) I’ll be the nob getting in your way… Starting out of Pateley Bridge heading norf and up the “Wath” planned to be a good four hour hack.. looking forward to it being in the moors again, hope the weather holds out.

Hoping to squeeze in 10k on both Saturday and Sunday, as time conspired against me today.

Something I’ve discovered recently: I’ve gone through a lot of injuries in my short running career (3 years or so), which has [more recently] stopped me putting together a regular programme. However, recently I’ve made the conscious decision to take each run a little slower i.e. not absolutely beasting myself every time I go out. I have found this has made the world of difference when it comes to staving off injuries.

In terms of times, I’m up to 22:30/22.45 minute 5k, compared to the sub 21m 5k I was doing before, but hopefully that will come down again if I can continue the consistency.

This past week I’ve done 3 runs: 8km, 6.5km and 6km, and feeling good on it, with nothing more than a few aches. All three quite intervally, due to the hilly nature of where I live.

Parkrun rollcall anyone?

Off I trotted up that bloody hill again in Brizzle-Brizzle this morning. Km2 still busting my ass, aiming for top100, keeping below 25 mins. Felt faster this week than last (113th and 24:59 🙂 ) but as I’m using phone on armband, I’ll wait for official results.

Good work, DD – I’m still in bed 😂

well, experiment proved, I run better fasted, felt bloated and slow today (although stats reveal not by much).

rotten weather here in West Yorks, kudos for those going out in it.

Light snow ⛄️ n R’ogte so expecting more up Pateley way 🤔

Might do an Almscliff Crag loop instead today..

How are people on here fueling their long runs?

Currently running up to 22miles, 30 miler due in 6 weeks.

I find my legs fall off after about 13-15 miles if I run on just water. I’m not fast (3hours for 20miles) but don’t want to walk/run, or stop to fuel.

Energy drinks?

Gels – I am happy with isotonic gels, but one every 30mins for 5 hours means carrying 10… and using several gels every long training run seems a bit over the top.

Never tried or seen the need for salt tabs.

Do I just chuck some custard creams in my pockets?

The 30miler is 3 loops, so I can stash replacement bottles with gels for each lap, but the plan is a 60+miler later where that won’t be an option…

Any sugggestions?

You may not like my reply and I am a bit “old school” but are you training for ultras? also what does the rest of your week look like, mileage wise?

With the greatest respect unless you are running large volumes through the week I would suggest doing shorter but faster runs on Sunday until the longer runs get shorter in terms of time. Being on your feet for so long is hard work. I only ever ran 1 marathon and my longest run was only circa 12 miles off a 50-60 mile week. I covered the distance quite easily and my last 10 miles (58 mins) was my fastest 10 split. so I am not a great believer in mega long runs. Certainly not ones that take so long to complete.

I use gels, but only if 20k + other than that isotonic drinks from zipfit..

Haven’t done anywhere near a 60k all in one go just yet 🕺

I did another 5k this morning, but my upper thighs were agony after yesterday’s sprint things… That said it felt much better by the end, but legs ache now.

Top 100 for me – well, when I say Top 100, I was 99th. 😆 But 1.08 off kast week’s 24.59 in at 23.51. I think some of that might have been starting a bit further up and not getting caught in so much traffic for km1. Still a way to go to my Ashton Court PB but for a cold shitty wet morning, I’m happy enough with my morning’s effort.

Ashton Court parkrun profile (taken from phone GPS):

Slow, steady parkrun for me today pacing someone from my tri club round for 33 minutes. Feeling the training kicking in and finding running to be getting comfortable and enjoyable again. Also put my name down to help out at the Oldham Way Ultra next month, securing myself a free place for next year’s race, so that’s my first one booked in for 2019…

Actually surfer, if you’re reading this still, if one wanted to get towards 4.30/km what kind of interval sessions would you recommend? We go out every Tuesday and Thursday mornings – and have 40-45 minute windows to do some work.

Never run much more than 3h but for 2h+ I usually take energy bars of the same sort I’d use cycling. Quite like Kellogg’s nutrigrain but your tastes may vary. Plus plain water. Jelly babies are easier to deal with when racing (marathons) though!

Been derailed a bit this week by manflu but hope to get out for a plod tomorrow.

@madeupname Food for long distance is basically whatever you can stomach. Things I carry is a mix of the following depending on what I have got/fancy:

Gels
Shot Bloks
Jelly Babies
Tangfastics
Rice Crispie Squares
Meat – pepperami/chorizo type
Mini Pork Pies
White bread cheese sandwiches
Flapjack
Soreen

I find I can sometimes get stomach issues with too much gels and often just get hungry for real food depending on how hard I am working or what time I am running. If I am doing a full day event I actually try and eat solid food early. If its a long training run/day out in the hills then it will mainly be solid food with the odd gel/sweets for a pick me up if needed.

@madeupname for that kind of distance I’d probably have 3 or 4 gels, a couple of bananas and  flapjack bars of some kind.Something savoury for about 3/4s of the way round would be good too, to settle the stomach.

Anyway my running: did 16km in the big Madrid park (Casa de Campo), which I don’t run in often and was pleasantly quiet and remote in places. Chilly but dry which was ideal too. Nothing today, and tomorrow we’re off for a 30km run up in the local mountains – heavy snow is forecast, so we might need to cut it short / change route.

Surfer, I’d be interested in what DD asks re pace work as well mate.

@bikebuoy – that was my basic plan, I just wondered if there was anything different/more exciting out there…

and normal food is easier than a box of gels a month!

@ajf and mogrim – that’s kind of what I hoped for. Mix and match of sports stuff and normal food. I’ll just have to try to see what stays down/settled in training. Any excuse to eat pork pies is good with me!

@thecaptain – jelly babies never seem to work for me.

I had a pack  waiting in second transition of a triathlon once, and as I set out on the run I ate one, needed savoury not sweet, so gave them to a very confused child supporter who was trying to give them out to runners.

@surfer – you may be ‘old school’ but I’m ‘no school’ so any advice much appreciated!

Mentally I wanted to know I can be on my feet for a long time. I didn’t want to get to halfway, and realise that was as far as I had run and I still had another 15miles to go…

In the past I’ve done a couple of marathons and one iron distance triathlon. I’m limited on time, and also commute to work by bike 5 days a week so am short on running time/sessions and also have to watch out for overcoming my legs. I manage one 5-6miler at a faster pace midweek and a long run at weekends. As fitness builds the long run has got faster as well as longer. I don’t plan to run over 20miles again in training and after the 30mile race is out of the way in March, I will cut the distance and try to build the pace.

A 50-60 mile week or a 58min 10 miler isn’t going to happen any time soon.

How are people warming up before a run?

I’ve came to the conclusion this may be my downfall, I’m basically getting out of bed, putting my gear on, heading out the door and going straight into a jog then picking it up to a gentle run about 5 minutes in. I’ve picked up a knot in my back which I think is down to not warming up properly.

been to see physio today re my recurring muscle strains…. which seem to stem from ridiculously tight calves according to his incline board, so good to know there’s a reason that can be worked on rather than bad luck.

But we discussed warm ups, and he said that the best warm up is basically to ease into it – no evidence that  stretches to begin make any noticeable difference, better to start off in a walk, to a faster walk, into a gentle jog, and gradually ramp up the levels, and then after 5-10 minutes incorporate some active stretches (so, lunge walks, heel kicks, and so on rather than static stretches) as the effort level goes up.

Sorry I posted then went out..

Hi DD. There are a lot of options and if you are Mo Farah then you have to be very scientific and specific. us mere mortals have a bit more scope and most of us are coming from a low base so anything “specific” will show benefits. If I have a 45 minute window and wanted to do a “session” as oppose to just a steady run I would do any of the below, all would be beneficial and it depends on what you enjoy.

Warn up by jogging 10 minutes or so getting progressivly faster. Then run a number of 2 minute efforts with roughly a 2 minutes slow recovery. Last 10 mins or so warn down.

Similar warm up then Fartlek which is just fast and slow. The fast around 5k race pace but the slows still quite steady so unlike the 2 min efforts you dont get a full recovery. Vary the efforts and their speed, I enjoy longer efforts say 2-3 minutes at close to 5 min mile pace, 30 seconds jog then 100-200 almost flat out (that hurts!) then a longer steady period in between, several of those is good.

Alternatively warm up then 12 x 400 over a measured (or at least consistent) stretch (these need to be as quick as you can manage 8/9 efforts and that makes the last 3 interesting :-)) say a 90 second to 2 min very slow jog recovery. Warm down

Any of that mix and match, 6 x 800 is a good session or 3-4 x 1mile. Time yourself over a fixed distance doesnt matter if its 790m or 40m short of a mile just do the same stretch each session and compare times.

Something I always used to do at the end of a hard session is 10 x 100 m (ish) as fast as I could (until your legs were buckling!) 30 secs recovery between each. Then warm down.

There are million variables but when you are starting out just running hard will see huge benefits.

My brother yesterday won the M-M50 Scottish Masters XC Champs. Old git Champion for a second time.

I’m much more of a plodder..

surfer, thanks for those. I did some measurements of the park where we run in the mornings today while walking the dog. Not scientific, but good enough. Some of those routines will fit in very nicely for our morning sessions – thankfully at 0515, we’re the only eejit sour there and nobody will wonder what the hell we’re up to.

Thanks again. Advice like that and the time to write it down always appreciated. 👍

Food wise I sometimes take Tunnocks Chrome Domes, but they’re not carried I normally scoff them when back at the car or have one before running.. only sometimes though.

Warm ups, well I jog at low pace (almost a fast walk pace) and do various leg lifts and a swing of my arms to open my chest up.. nothing more than about 200mtrs of that then I start off jogging and pick up pace within about 500mtrs or so.. then throughout the run pace on/off and sometimes slow right down then back up to a building pace.. If there is a sustained long steep climb (like QECP can be) then I will stretch out whilst climbing, sometimes my leg tendons feel a bit stiff and this is the way I stretch them out.. So I purposely choose a very steep section and climb up it..

Todays run was just under 16k, nice quiet lanes over to Almscliff Crag through Stainburn Forest and back, very quiet out there today, not a lot of wind and overcast light cloud.. so could put some effort  in on the lanes.. Nice hack out.

“How are people warming up before a run?”

I do some dynamic exercises, such as leg swings, paleo sit, lunges etc, and then I head out and gradually ramp up the speed. I used to go for it straight from the door but I think this was the cause of quite a few of my injuries.

10 miles off road today in some really nasty gloop, 90 mins which I’m very happy with given the conditions.

Re. Warmups, it depends on the run. For a 5k I’ll do 5 or so mins of running, some flat out sprints and some dynamic exercises. For longer runs, I tend to just do a bit of light running and not much else. I do put a big emphasis of warm downs though, it’s certainly something that I think stops some fatigue and injuries, lots of stretching, light running t9 slow the heart and then some more stretches. No idea if this is right but it works for me.

No specific warm-up here but the first 2k is always very steady and mostly downhill. And I usually walk up the final steep section on the way home.

Jaffa cakes and the Sorren lunch bars are what agreed with me when I was doing longer runs in prep for the Exe to Axe. I’ve never gotten on with gels, I did after a recommendation try Jam Sandwiches at one point, they went in okay and felt fine for 30mins or so and then started to feel bloated so I gave them up as runners trots is not something I wish to experience!

I’m quite annoyed today, rode my MTB for the first time in a month yesterday with some new SPD’s, felt like they were set up fine as no knee pain during and felt fine last night, today I have brought my running stuff with me looking to run home (9miles) but over the course of this morning when walking I get a sharp pain in my left knee, about a 4 on the pain front. I know I shouldn’t run and rest it, but I really wanna run!

This is one of the reasons I didnt ride for a month,  the fear of this happening and knocking my running/training plan!

10k off road for me yesterday. Legs were completely empty / in pain and I ended up leaving the other lads to it and walking the last 1k home.

Gentle lunch recovery run today, 5k at 9 min miles is the plan, it looks lovely outside but I fear it will be bloody freezing once I step out.

Went up to Staveley nr Kendal on Saturday. Pete Blands were having a discount sale in Wilfs so me and the Mrs spent a bit on lovely inov8 stuff. Afterwards inov8 were doing a product test of the new x-talons so we got to try a pair each and go for a nice trot on the fells lead by some of their staff. Which was nice.
On Sunday it was Blackburn Winter warmer 10k. My Mrs did it. She was reasonably happy with going under 50 mins for a hilly route. The winner, Ben Fish, did 31:58. I’m still staggered by this.

@MrSparkle – nice! Ben Fish is going well right now. He won the Four Villages half the other week. Watched a really good race unfold from a nice warm timing car. 2nd and 3rd twice now, so pleased for him to get the win 🙂

OK then folk, lets deal with the important bits of running – kit.

Favorite shoes?

Essential bits of kit?

Other kit based wisdom?

Shoes – Asics Cumulus. I keep trying and buying lots of others, Nike Lunar Glide and Pegasus, Asics Superion, Brooks GTS, Kajenji Kiprun LD and none come close. My dad is chuffed as he gets a ready made supply of barely used shoes for the gym.

Kit – compression calf sleeves. It may be snake oil but I really find they help. And short shorts, they’re just more comfortable and I now hate running in long shorts.

Shoes – Asics Cumulus. I keep trying and buying lots of others, Nike Lunar Glide and Pegasus, Asics Superion, Brooks GTS, Kajenji Kiprun LD and none come close. My dad is chuffed as he gets a ready made supply of barely used shoes for the gym.

Whatever neutral shoe I can find on sale for £35 or less. Had a few pairs of Puma FAAS 500s, then two pairs of Brooks Ghost, and I’m about to change to some NB Vazees. Tend to get about 4 months out of a pair. One of the things I love about running is it costs so little, and you can’t buy speed with fancy kit.